UK Politics Thread VII: Wake me DUP inside [can't wake UUP]

[Ifreann]

Mulan abandoned traditional gender roles to go to war and ended up saving China from the Huns. Can't be exposing the youf to that kind of degeneracy.

I mistakenly assumed that the superficial message of the song could be isolated from the decadent late-stage capitalist mode of production under which it was created. This is, of course, impossible. I will submit myself to re-education through labour. Preferably on a prison farm rather than in a camp because the latter word makes me feel uncomfortable and may cause me to fall further.

Good, good. There's a lot of work to be done on the prison farms to meet the jam quotas.

[Ostroeuropa]

Its harder to get into debt if the government gives you lots of free money.

It realy isn't. Debt isn't a symptom of lack of money, but of lack of knowledge and unwillingness to defer gratification.

Pretty much tbh. I don't borrow money and never have, and hopefully never will. I've been totally broke, but never in debt.

Student debt might be an exception to that though, alongside other "Investment" forms of debt.

[Questers]

Ostro’s Story, while being deeply sad, is hardly unique. Liberalism has left a whole swathe of British demography without hope. No jobs. No investment. Broken homes. Debt. Drugs. Mental collapse.

We need to restore discipline, industriousness, and family. Bring back national service, invest in our destroyed British towns and cities, reincentivise nuclear family life, fight the war on drugs viciously and completely and introduce purpose, work, and pride to a lost generation.

Liberalism should be abolished.

Funny, because I could say the same thing about Conservatism and austerity.

Duh.

The Conservative Party is almost a polsci textbook definition of liberal conservatism. they are liberals lol

[Questers]

In the finest tradition of Father Knows Best, you can’t really be sure of that. All problems can be fixed with active, compelling, and intelligent intervention.

what does that even mean

are you saying questers UK is still going to be cool with transgender people or saying nah fam wouldn't even really exist without liberalism tbh

Tbh I don’t see why people shouldnt be able to transition between sexes if they need to. Its the whole ‘everyting is a spektrum’ part Im opposed to.

[Ostroeuropa]

Funny, because I could say the same thing about Conservatism and austerity.

Duh.

The Conservative Party is almost a polsci textbook definition of liberal conservatism. they are liberals lol

You're being a bit Mosleyite for my tastes. I'm sympathetic to a lot of what you're talking about, but you seem to view those things in ways that ignore the reasons they were done away with in the first place.

Militarization, organization, discipline and all that, if they are brought back, should be brought back in a different form that serves humanistic goals.

[Questers]

Duh.

The Conservative Party is almost a polsci textbook definition of liberal conservatism. they are liberals lol

You're being a bit Mosleyite for my tastes.

No what i said there was pretty mainstream. Liberal conservatism is a real thing.

[Ostroeuropa]

You're being a bit Mosleyite for my tastes.

No what i said there was pretty mainstream. Liberal conservatism is a real thing.

I mean in general, the support for militarization and such.

[Questers]

I dont support ‘militarisation’. I am in favour of a 3% defence budget and conscription - a tyrannical policy only done by tinpot dictatorships like Switzerland and Sweden...

[Ostroeuropa]

I dont support ‘militarisation’. I am in favour of a 3% defence budget and conscription - a tyrannical policy only done by tinpot dictatorships like Switzerland and Sweden...

I'm talking in terms of culture, which is your reason to bring back national service.

Have you considered alternatives?

So I get to go Coil on a city?
Okay.

Syndicates, cooperatives, and small businesses only.
An attempt to fund the government solely through land value taxation will be tried.

The executive will be titled as a prince(ss), dukes/duchesses forming the various ministries and the assembly, elected by the populace.
Citizens of the city are entitled to claim lordship status, and sit in the second house to veto or approve bills passed by elected representatives, or to have their vote in absentia.

The city itself will hold the title of Emperor, in the style of Lord Novgorod (https://www.britannica.com/place/Veliky-Novgorod), with the associated pledges of allegiance and understanding that the city is the source of all noble titles.

There will be a state church mostly comprised of rituals designed to foster unity and parades, providing services such as marriages (In the style of re-enacting the fall ala his dark materials and devotion to knowledge and experience) and funerals (whipping up hysteria and proclaiming vengeance against the causes) etc.
Propoganda will be everywhere decrying the eternal enemy, death and the state of entropy, and asserting human mastery over the universe and the righteousness of our domination of nature and bending it to our will, to this end, doctors, scientists, and such, will be issued medals and a ministry of culture will actively attempt to foster a war-siege mentality against the issues of poverty, disease, etc.

The militaristic bombastic styles of fascism and imperial states will be co-opted and directed to humanitarian purposes.

It will be adapted to be environmentally friendly, free and efficient public transport would be a priority, for the benefit of the citizen, the consumer, and the businesses.

Should the city prove productive and profitable, a space elevator would likewise be a priority.

It would be liberal socially in terms of laws, and constitutional egalitarianism would be guaranteed.

If a military is not needed, there shall be one anyway, in the form of the Supreme Governor of the Imperial Forces, to be a dog (or cat if the damn cultural marxists have their way) of good health, who shall attend events to ensure a safe and secure society.

And there'd be a fucking ten thousand foot statue of Taylor Hebert riding a fluttershy.

We need not necessarily revert to militarism to instill the values you want. Indeed, it may well be counter productive. Instead, the mentalities and cultural effects you want (And I agree would be useful) can be fostered in other ways.

Disciplined units of citizens being trained to shoot guns is not useful compared to training them to do other actually useful things. National service, if returned, should focus on things useful to society.

[Ifreann]

I dont support ‘militarisation’. I am in favour of a 3% defence budget and conscription - a tyrannical policy only done by tinpot dictatorships like Switzerland and Sweden...

You don't support militarisation, just spending way more on the military and making everyone join it.

Um...

[The Feylands]

#FreeWales ❤

Oh... and apart from that.. thanks a lot for Brexit!

I dunno what I'd vote for if I were an Englishwoman (and could not vote for any of the Celtic nationalist parties)... I suppose UKIP is useless now, so it'd be Tory, with hopes of them finding a better leader than May. A lot of intelligent, politically sound people, seems to like that Mogg guy - although I don't know too much about him or his policies, atm.

[Philjia]

#FreeWales ❤

Oh... and apart from that.. thanks a lot for Brexit!

Brexit will bugger Wales harder than most.

[Vassenor]

#FreeWales ❤

Oh... and apart from that.. thanks a lot for Brexit!

I dunno what I'd vote for if I were an Englishwoman (and could not vote for any of the Celtic nationalist parties)... I suppose UKIP is useless now, so it'd be Tory, with hopes of them finding a better leader than May. A lot of intelligent, politically sound people, seems to like that Mogg guy - although I don't know too much about him or his policies, atm.

Mogg is a regressive twat.

[Trumptonium]

I'm not trying to say that the UK can't survive outside the EU. I'm trying to say that trying to automatically grandfather existing FTAs with other countries is nowhere near automatic, which matters to those who said Brexit would be worth doing because of all the extra free trade that could be done.

As you'll know, tariffs are not that much of an issue in the modern economy, it is the regulatory barriers to trade.

Surely as a person with post-GCSE understanding of economics you are simultaneously aware that the EU's tariffs are very low on MFN's and that the UK is currently converged with EU customs and standards, hence an immediate exit today would not result in any kind of barriers tomorrow beyond a disincentive in the form of a tariff when exporting. These tariffs are of course not even that relevant to British manufacturers and services, given that GBP's depreciation against EUR has far outweighed even the largest tariffs set by the EU (10% for automobiles), so with tariffs, UK goods would still be more competitive in the European Union than before the UK quit and had free trade.

The question is of course about services, however given the existing convergence, and lack of any visible political will to diverge from European standards, there isn't any tangible reason to believe that all other FTA's can't be "simply" grandfathered in. There will have to be some form of trade-off between leaving EU institutions and staying in EU treaties unless we are going full WTO, however it is in the interest of both sides to reach a deal that resembles the economic status quo. While the UK has a heap of services to lose, the EU and especially Germany have a lot of exports to lose.

A lot of people forget that Britain has the highest consumer spending in Europe, in front of Germany. Most of this, of course, is from the UK being the largest importer of goods in Europe. The idea that this will hurt Britain a lot more than the rest of the EU is actually quite insane. Besides, it is a redundant question. Brexit is a bit of an economic Tsar Bomba. It cannot hurt one side without fucking the other one as well, to the point of a Pyrrhic victory in the absolute worse case scenarios imaginable. Nobody wins.

We all know the only interests stopping the European Union from offering a Fair Deal to the UK are merely political, and hence it is Britain who is negotiating a nonpartisan deal who wields the most negotiation power. The EU has already yielded a lot, however this incompetent government couldn't get a deal with the Channel Islands if they tried. If Britain gets a fair deal (that is a departure from the Customs Union, continued access to the single market for services and financial passporting while reducing the UK's contributions by 10-15% a year and gradually eliminating freedom of movement) then Britain can only flourish from it.

[Vassenor]

I'm not trying to say that the UK can't survive outside the EU. I'm trying to say that trying to automatically grandfather existing FTAs with other countries is nowhere near automatic, which matters to those who said Brexit would be worth doing because of all the extra free trade that could be done.

As you'll know, tariffs are not that much of an issue in the modern economy, it is the regulatory barriers to trade.

Surely as a person with post-GCSE understanding of economics you are simultaneously aware that the EU's tariffs are very low on MFN's and that the UK is currently converged with EU customs and standards, hence an immediate exit today would not result in any kind of barriers tomorrow beyond a disincentive in the form of a tariff when exporting. These tariffs are of course not even that relevant to British manufacturers and services, given that GBP's depreciation against EUR has far outweighed even the largest tariffs set by the EU (10% for automobiles), so with tariffs, UK goods would still be more competitive in the European Union than before the UK quit and had free trade.

The question is of course about services, however given the existing convergence, and lack of any visible political will to diverge from European standards, there isn't any tangible reason to believe that all other FTA's can't be "simply" grandfathered in. There will have to be some form of trade-off between leaving EU institutions and staying in EU treaties unless we are going full WTO, however it is in the interest of both sides to reach a deal that resembles the economic status quo. While the UK has a heap of services to lose, the EU and especially Germany have a lot of exports to lose.

A lot of people forget that Britain has the highest consumer spending in Europe, in front of Germany. Most of this, of course, is from the UK being the largest importer of goods in Europe. The idea that this will hurt Britain a lot more than the rest of the EU is actually quite insane. Besides, it is a redundant question. Brexit is a bit of an economic Tsar Bomba. It cannot hurt one side without fucking the other one as well, to the point of a Pyrrhic victory in the absolute worse case scenarios imaginable. Nobody wins.

We all know the only interests stopping the European Union from offering a Fair Deal to the UK are merely political, and hence it is Britain who is negotiating a nonpartisan deal who wields the most negotiation power. The EU has already yielded a lot, however this incompetent government couldn't get a deal with the Channel Islands if they tried. If Britain gets a fair deal (that is a departure from the Customs Union, continued access to the single market for services and financial passporting while reducing the UK's contributions by 10-15% a year and gradually eliminating freedom of movement) then Britain can only flourish from it.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/686 ... y-country/

We don't have the highest consumer spending in Europe. Germany does.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/top-eu- ... countries/

Nor are we actually the largest importer in Europe. Germany is.

[Trumptonium]

As you'll know, tariffs are not that much of an issue in the modern economy, it is the regulatory barriers to trade.

Surely as a person with post-GCSE understanding of economics you are simultaneously aware that the EU's tariffs are very low on MFN's and that the UK is currently converged with EU customs and standards, hence an immediate exit today would not result in any kind of barriers tomorrow beyond a disincentive in the form of a tariff when exporting. These tariffs are of course not even that relevant to British manufacturers and services, given that GBP's depreciation against EUR has far outweighed even the largest tariffs set by the EU (10% for automobiles), so with tariffs, UK goods would still be more competitive in the European Union than before the UK quit and had free trade.

The question is of course about services, however given the existing convergence, and lack of any visible political will to diverge from European standards, there isn't any tangible reason to believe that all other FTA's can't be "simply" grandfathered in. There will have to be some form of trade-off between leaving EU institutions and staying in EU treaties unless we are going full WTO, however it is in the interest of both sides to reach a deal that resembles the economic status quo. While the UK has a heap of services to lose, the EU and especially Germany have a lot of exports to lose.

A lot of people forget that Britain has the highest consumer spending in Europe, in front of Germany. Most of this, of course, is from the UK being the largest importer of goods in Europe. The idea that this will hurt Britain a lot more than the rest of the EU is actually quite insane. Besides, it is a redundant question. Brexit is a bit of an economic Tsar Bomba. It cannot hurt one side without fucking the other one as well, to the point of a Pyrrhic victory in the absolute worse case scenarios imaginable. Nobody wins.

We all know the only interests stopping the European Union from offering a Fair Deal to the UK are merely political, and hence it is Britain who is negotiating a nonpartisan deal who wields the most negotiation power. The EU has already yielded a lot, however this incompetent government couldn't get a deal with the Channel Islands if they tried. If Britain gets a fair deal (that is a departure from the Customs Union, continued access to the single market for services and financial passporting while reducing the UK's contributions by 10-15% a year and gradually eliminating freedom of movement) then Britain can only flourish from it.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/686 ... y-country/

We don't have the highest consumer spending in Europe. Germany does.

yes that's what happens when the currency depreciates

anything else?

converting 1.84tn usd to eur is 1.47tn
converting 1.6tn usd to gbp is 1.14tn

converting 1.14tn gbp in january 2016 is 2.4tn usd (1.47764 gbp/usd)
converting 1.47tn eur in january 2016 is 1.6tn usd (1.08631 eur/usd)

the uk has always been the largest consumer market in europe - germany's gdp has always been inflated by exports

tracking it back to 1945 you can probably find 4 years when germany's consumer market is larger than britain - 1984/5, 1992 and 2016/17

leave this issue to people who know what they're talking about, this blip is temporary at best.

[Questers]

In Questers UK schooling will be sex-segregated and Proletarian Morality™ will be maintained by putting any overly effeminate males through repeated military training montages to the tune of Mulan's "I'll Make a Man Out of You".

Mulan abandoned traditional gender roles to go to war and ended up saving China from the Huns. Can't be exposing the youf to that kind of degeneracy.

No-oo, I'm in favour of conscripting women as well.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Mulan abandoned traditional gender roles to go to war and ended up saving China from the Huns. Can't be exposing the youf to that kind of degeneracy.

No-oo, I'm in favour of conscripting women as well.

I'm not sure the world can cope with two genders as mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

[Questers]

No-oo, I'm in favour of conscripting women as well.

I'm not sure the world can cope with two genders as mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

Mmm, but Mulan's actually a conscript anyway.

[Questers]

what does that even mean

are you saying questers UK is still going to be cool with transgender people or saying nah fam wouldn't even really exist without liberalism tbh

In Questers UK schooling will be sex-segregated and Proletarian Morality™ will be maintained by putting any overly effeminate males through repeated military training montages to the tune of Mulan's "I'll Make a Man Out of You".

Why not?

[Questers]

Have you considered alternatives?

What you posted is just la-la land though. Conscription is actually practiced irl and has been shown to have good effects.

Disciplined units of citizens being trained to shoot guns is not useful compared to training them to do other actually useful things. National service, if returned, should focus on things useful to society.

The forces teach a lot of other useful life skills and attitudes than "shooting guns".

[Ifreann]

No-oo, I'm in favour of conscripting women as well.

I'm not sure the world can cope with two genders as mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

I dunno, I think everyone being in the dark about both themselves and everyone else would be a step forward in gender relations.

[Ifreann]

Have you considered alternatives?

What you posted is just la-la land though. Conscription is actually practiced irl and has been shown to have good effects.

Disciplined units of citizens being trained to shoot guns is not useful compared to training them to do other actually useful things. National service, if returned, should focus on things useful to society.

The forces teach a lot of other useful life skills and attitudes than "shooting guns".

• Marching
• Making your bed really good
• Fixing your gun if it stops shooting
• Fixing skateboards
• Obeying the scions of noble houses who purchased a commission
• Wait, is that still how it works?
• Getting banned from pubs for being a bollocks

[Questers]

Very droll

[Ifreann]

Very droll

And I didn't even get to learning how to show proper respect to a farm animal who outranks you.