San Francisco mass exodus

[Oil exporting People]

> Godzilla meme goes ignored
> I cri

[Argentinstan]

This problem could be solved so simply. Rent control or rent stabilization for everyone and stop building luxary housing for rich people. There problem solved but politicians have to make it so complicated.

Rent Control is a terrible idea, and would actually fuck over the city harder.

The city is engaging in affordable housing techniques but something like rent control might do the trick. Right now the city getting fucked harder with rent control is theoretical.

[Great Minarchistan]

> Godzilla meme goes ignored
> I cri

I paid attention to it <3

[Argentinstan]

The reason there is a housing shortage is building luxary housing for rich people. If you stopped building it there would not be a shortage. This isn't rocket science.

...How many luxury housing are available compared to the supply of "normal" houses on a city of 860 thousand?

860,000 is not a correct estimate. It's over 900,000 now. Well we'll have to wait for the 2020 census for a correct estimate but...it is in the 900,000s at the moment.

[Saiwania]

The city is engaging in affordable housing techniques but something like rent control might do the trick. Right now the city getting fucked harder with rent control is theoretical.

The negative outcomes of rent control have been seen in places which have implemented rent control. This happening isn't guaranteed in San Francisco's case, but I would say that it is a likely outcome. Rent control going badly has happened before and inevitably will happen again.

Tenants who manage to get a rent controlled space tend to go to extreme lengths to never let it go, because they pay the old rate which will always be far cheaper than the current market rate.

[Methodological Individualism]

They move to other places and start trying to implement all the stuff that made California shit, thanks but no thanks.

California isn't shit, though.

To be fair, much of California is the Central Valley, and it's fairly shit in places. Had a family member who lives there go though a months long health scare, involving being shipped down to Los Angeles for medical care several times because "fiscal responsibility" shut down their local county hospital, resulting in massive overcrowding and specialist shortages at the one remaining hospital for apparently hundreds of miles around.

As a visitor myself, Los Angeles public transit isn't my favorite, what with the foul neighborhoods, gangs, and homeless and the like, but at least the overcrowded urban hellscape has doctors for christ's sake.

I naturally won't speculate as to any possible correlation between the Central Valley's apparent third-world-like condition and it's general political affinities, of course. Although...

Feinstein is the devil!

...suddenly I'm driving northbound on the I-5. Farmer John sure loves his signs decrying the devil women. Eyes on the road son, the I-580 connector to San Francisco is only 250 miles out...

[Farnhamia]

San Francisco is a shithole. A bunch of Asperger techies who think they can change the world with an app but can't make a social scene worth a crap.

Also a 10/10 in SF is a 6/10 in New York City. #WallStreetMotherFuckers

*** Warned for trolling. *** I might have let it go except for the "Asperger techies" remark.

[Luminesa]

Another pointless comment is pointless. "Durr hurr you hate us cause you ain't us". I could say the same about Louisiana and you could call us a bunch of backwards, mudbug-eating, alligator-riding hicks. Still doesn't add to the conversation. But sure, make your daily smug comment because it makes you feel good or whatever. You have your state, others have theirs, and nobody is obligated to like your state either.

Do you need a tissue?

My nose is actually not stuffed-up right now, but thank you.

Anyway, anything relevant to add to the thread? My health is not necessarily the topic.

[Luminesa]

He basically said, "They hate us cause they ain't us." Look at the last sentence in the quote.

...This is an entirely different conversation concerning oil, but we also have a pretty good tourism industry and a fishing industry. We're not wealthy by any stretch, but our main problem is education. Which is where we keep having money-troubles. Furthermore, it's rather insensitive to say, "Oh it's your fault for living in a flood-prone state, stinks to be you if you lose your house." But whatever, carry on.

Well, what's the alternative? For the rest of the country having to keep bailing out Louisiana for the consequences of the decision to build where they did?

Lots of states have "tourism industries." Fishing is a big one too, yet Louisiana valued its oil industry so much as to gamble its fishing industry on it. Let's face it, they'll never live down the oil spill of 2010.

The relevant questions, of course, are what fishing pays compares to what oil rig jobs pay, and how much revenue each industry brings.

"They hate us 'cause they ain't us" refers to envy, as indicated by its original context. CTOAN was clearly not referring to envy. You are essentially twisting his words.

We’re not even the poorest state in the Union. We’re not wealthy by any stretch, but we’re not collapsing. As for disaster-prone states, you could even say that to Florida, or even Texas. Or heck, on topic, you could say to someone in Cali, “It’s your fault you decided to live in such a fire-prone/earthquake-prone state!” It adds nothing to the thread but bad vibes. Nobody asked you to point-out an issue that most people in such states are already aware of.

We recovered from Katrina, we’ll be fine.

What am I twisting? I wasn’t implying he was envious of anyone. I was implying the statement was pointless and added nothing to the thread, because it basically says, “Oh you can’t talk bad about California because you’re just jealous.” I’m not envious by any means, nor is he envious of me, which is fine. He may have been referring to others being envious, which is what “you all can try to catch-up with us” basically means. I call it pointless and a strawman.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, what's the alternative? For the rest of the country having to keep bailing out Louisiana for the consequences of the decision to build where they did?

Lots of states have "tourism industries." Fishing is a big one too, yet Louisiana valued its oil industry so much as to gamble its fishing industry on it. Let's face it, they'll never live down the oil spill of 2010.

The relevant questions, of course, are what fishing pays compares to what oil rig jobs pay, and how much revenue each industry brings.

"They hate us 'cause they ain't us" refers to envy, as indicated by its original context. CTOAN was clearly not referring to envy. You are essentially twisting his words.

We’re not even the poorest state in the Union. We’re not wealthy by any stretch, but we’re not collapsing. As for disaster-prone states, you could even say that to Florida, or even Texas. Or heck, on topic, you could say to someone in Cali, “It’s your fault you decided to live in such a fire-prone/earthquake-prone state!” It adds nothing to the thread but bad vibes. Nobody asked you to point-out an issue that most people in such states are already aware of.

We recovered from Katrina, we’ll be fine.

What am I twisting? I wasn’t implying he was envious of anyone. I was implying the statement was pointless and added nothing to the thread, because it basically says, “Oh you can’t talk bad about California because you’re just jealous.” I’m not envious by any means, nor is he envious of me, which is fine. He may have been referring to others being envious, which is what “you all can try to catch-up with us” basically means. I call it pointless and a strawman.

I'm not sure you know what words mean.

[Farnhamia]

We’re not even the poorest state in the Union. We’re not wealthy by any stretch, but we’re not collapsing. As for disaster-prone states, you could even say that to Florida, or even Texas. Or heck, on topic, you could say to someone in Cali, “It’s your fault you decided to live in such a fire-prone/earthquake-prone state!” It adds nothing to the thread but bad vibes. Nobody asked you to point-out an issue that most people in such states are already aware of.

We recovered from Katrina, we’ll be fine.

What am I twisting? I wasn’t implying he was envious of anyone. I was implying the statement was pointless and added nothing to the thread, because it basically says, “Oh you can’t talk bad about California because you’re just jealous.” I’m not envious by any means, nor is he envious of me, which is fine. He may have been referring to others being envious, which is what “you all can try to catch-up with us” basically means. I call it pointless and a strawman.

I'm not sure you know what words mean.

Seems to be some personal antagonism here. Drop it.

[Hakons]

If we take 2016 as our base year, it'd seem that 7 of the 10 top performing states in GDP per capita (standard of living) are blue states, with 3 being red states. Conversely, 9 of the 10 bottom performing states in GDP per capita are all red states with only 1 state in the bottom bracket being blue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... per_capita

REd states are generally, surprise surprise, more rural, and rural areas, surprise surprise, are generally poorer.

No, we MUST blame political parties (even though red or blue states change all the time).

[Greed and Death]

[http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/02/08/san-francisco-bay-area-mass-exodus-residents/
Dunno how to make this fucking link work.

Like this.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/02/08/san-francisco-bay-area-mass-exodus-residents/
Include it between two "url" tags.

...San Francisco in particular just seems to be taking it particularly hard.
...
Thoughts?

From what I hear, living in San Francisco just costs way too much for basically anyone who's not in the top 2% earners of the US.

The rewrite of the Tax code made it even more expensive Id say only the top 1% got it.

[Wine-loving Chimps]

I once wondered what it would be like living in San Fran, so looked up the house prices.

After seeing the prices, I'm not surprised that people are now leaving. You'd have to make a large amount to even get by living like a goddamn spartan.

[Greed and Death]

I once wondered what it would be like living in San Fran, so looked up the house prices.

After seeing the prices, I'm not surprised that people are now leaving. You'd have to make a large amount to even get by living like a goddamn spartan.

And once you can no longer write of 1/4 of your house and you can only write off 10,000 in SALT even people who can afford their want to leave.

[Great Minarchistan]

It's worthy to remind that although S.F. has a big disparity of costs compared to the rest of the country, part of it can be explained because median household earnings are almost the double of the national average (which is unsurprising knowing it harbors the Silicon Valley), so things are obviously going to get insanely expensive. Part of it however can be blamed for the bad policies enacted, notably rent controls and high taxation thats common throughout all of cali IIRC.

[San Lumen]

I once wondered what it would be like living in San Fran, so looked up the house prices.

After seeing the prices, I'm not surprised that people are now leaving. You'd have to make a large amount to even get by living like a goddamn spartan.

If the politicians in San Francisco cared they'd do something about it and do some of the things suggested here but they wont. at least try rent stabilization. There is a whole neighborhood in my city where they have built tons of it and its one of the hottest neighborhoods in the city and people haven't been driven out either. they can actually afford to stay there.

[NeoOasis]

I'm not sure what rent control will do to help. A lot of people looking to buy are priced out of the market, and it's not like San Francisco has much room to actually expand. Putting up a rent ceiling might remove a lot of properties off the market which will hardly help those who can afford a place in the city right now.

All I can see is if politicians implement controls it will be a case of government overreach, if they don't act it will be government incompetence. City government has managed to find itself in a real life Catch 22.

[San Lumen]

I'm not sure what rent control will do to help. A lot of people looking to buy are priced out of the market, and it's not like San Francisco has much room to actually expand. Putting up a rent ceiling might remove a lot of properties off the market which will hardly help those who can afford a place in the city right now.

All I can see is if politicians implement controls it will be a case of government overreach, if they don't act it will be government incompetence. City government has managed to find itself in a real life Catch 22.

How would it take them off the market? People could actually afford them and if some greedy cash hungry developer or landlord doesn't like it move.

[Oil exporting People]

How would it take them off the market? People could actually afford them and if some greedy cash hungry developer or landlord doesn't like it move.

As has been explained to you repeatedly in this thread, rent controls do not work at all and actually hurt the poor.

[Saiwania]

How would it take them off the market? People could actually afford them and if some greedy cash hungry developer or landlord doesn't like it move.

As has been explained to you repeatedly in this thread, rent controls do not work at all and actually hurt the poor.

In addition, San Lumen should read the article on: How the price of rent is determined. Page 16, post 24.

[NeoOasis]

I'm not sure what rent control will do to help. A lot of people looking to buy are priced out of the market, and it's not like San Francisco has much room to actually expand. Putting up a rent ceiling might remove a lot of properties off the market which will hardly help those who can afford a place in the city right now.

All I can see is if politicians implement controls it will be a case of government overreach, if they don't act it will be government incompetence. City government has managed to find itself in a real life Catch 22.

How would it take them off the market? People could actually afford them and if some greedy cash hungry developer or landlord doesn't like it move.

There are some great articles out there on how rent control works. But from what I remember:

Rent control will artifically lower prices to below what a landlord can consider tenable. After a point it will be more worthwhile to take the property off the market or sell it outright. Rental properties are not charities, but for profit ventures. After all, people need to pay off the property itself, and if they can't afford it, why lose money on it?

And rent control itself doesn't address the main issue which is a very basic supply and demand problem. There is a very high demand for a very limited supply. Thanks to this, merely buying a property is a very very expensive proposition.

Also if rent control is implemented, there is nothing stoping said cash hungry developer from merely sitting on his property and waiting. While I'm not a huge fan of screaming about government overreach, rent controls are without a doubt government overreach. It addresses a symptom, not a cause.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Why wouldn't it, though?

That is the stupidest fucking thing I've read in a long time.

Try actually refuting it, then.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

As for disaster-prone states, you could even say that to Florida, or even Texas. Or heck, on topic, you could say to someone in Cali, “It’s your fault you decided to live in such a fire-prone/earthquake-prone state!” It adds nothing to the thread but bad vibes. Nobody asked you to point-out an issue that most people in such states are already aware of.

So if they're already aware of it, what are they doing there?

One can design a town to withstand earthquakes, and leave enough distance between a forest and a town that a forest fire doesn't burn a town. (The towns that don't are most definitely at fault.) But a flood cannot be as easily contained. Why else did you think there was a difference in death toll?

We recovered from Katrina

You wouldn't think it, to look at the way they keep hitting the rest of the country up for disaster relief.

What am I twisting? I wasn’t implying he was envious of anyone.

Huh, now you're twisting my words too.

I wasn't implying you were saying he was the envious one. I was pointing out that you were accusing him of calling you the jealous one, whether you realize that or not, because that's precisely what the phrase you used means.

I was implying the statement was pointless and added nothing to the thread, because it basically says, “Oh you can’t talk bad about California because you’re just jealous.”

Oh, so you WERE accusing him of calling you jealous.

And no, he clearly wasn't. Read his post again, and try telling me where you thought he said that.

may have been referring to others being envious, which is what “you all can try to catch-up with us” basically means.

Or it could've been referring to catching up economically, or in social progress, etc... if you don't know what someone's saying, ask. But don't twist their words.

[Ethel mermania]

Rent Control is a terrible idea, and would actually fuck over the city harder.

The city is engaging in affordable housing techniques but something like rent control might do the trick. Right now the city getting fucked harder with rent control is theoretical.

City isn't getting fucked, higher rents mean higher income people which means higher taxes paid.