Are stories that feature 'good vs evil' a bad thing?

[Dylar]

A few scenes later, [Darth Vader is] blowing up a planet.

Darth Vader never blew up a planet.

But Naga Sadow and Aleema Keto did...with the Force...

[Skylus]

If this could include video games (which are basically visual novels that you play to progress through said novel), you play a person that has to save the world, but kills creatures/people without a second thought to do so. (In Elder Scrolls, Zelda, Witcher, etc)
In other words, you play as a murderer of thousands of creatures that happen to "be on the wrong side".
And people being murdered - don't get me started.
And stealing stuff, and womanizing, and gambling...
I could go on.

[Deads Heads]

If this could include video games (which are basically visual novels that you play to progress through said novel), you play a person that has to save the world, but kills creatures/people without a second thought to do so. (In Elder Scrolls, Zelda, Witcher, etc)
In other words, you play as a murderer of thousands of creatures that happen to "be on the wrong side".
And people being murdered - don't get me started.
And stealing stuff, and womanizing, and gambling...
I could go on.

It's as if Sarkeesian might've actually had a point and people jumped to conclusions from out of context video clips and almost Goebbelsian repetition by anti-feminists.

[Hammer Britannia]

Nah, in some cases there are a clear good and evil no matter how brainwashed one is to believe that the evil is good

I mean, a dragon that wants to eat everybody isn't exactly a grey area monster. Neither are mass murders who murder for fun.

[Skylus]

If this could include video games (which are basically visual novels that you play to progress through said novel), you play a person that has to save the world, but kills creatures/people without a second thought to do so. (In Elder Scrolls, Zelda, Witcher, etc)
In other words, you play as a murderer of thousands of creatures that happen to "be on the wrong side".
And people being murdered - don't get me started.
And stealing stuff, and womanizing, and gambling...
I could go on.

It's as if Sarkeesian might've actually had a point and people jumped to conclusions from out of context video clips and almost Goebbelsian repetition by anti-feminists.

What?

[Kramanica]

Darth Vader never blew up a planet.

But Naga Sadow and Aleema Keto did...with the Force...

No longer canon.

*laughs in Disney*

[Insaeldor]

Well written stories and good poorly written stories are bad. That's really the only good and bad distinction between stories.

[Old Tyrannia]

There has always been a demand for more morally ambiguous stories, with flawed heroes and sympathetic villains. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a place for the traditional story of good triumphing over evil. Those stories fulfil a necessary role, in my opinion. The idea that the dichotomy between good and evil, right and wrong, dark and light is an entirely modern invention is simply not true; it has antecedents going back to the earliest civilisations. There was a clear contrast in the mythologies of ancient civilisations between gods and heroes who, even if flawed, represented light, order and life and their nemeses who represented chaos, darkness and death- take the story of Horus and Set in ancient Egyptian mythology, for example.

[Krasny-Volny]

No, they're just moral.

In modern day, the taste for moralizing absolutes in fiction has gradually gotten replaced by a desire to see more grey areas, because that adds layers to the story and makes it seem more complex. Black and white morality in fiction is perceived as unrealistic, even cartoonish.

[The Rich Port]

I find stories that start with a seemingly black and white world that slowly faces the realization of the gray realities of life is the best kind. In much the same way the characters mature, the audience is allowed to mature with them.

Also, I prefer happy endings. Sure, the world is gray and nothing is certain, but that doesn't mean that being good is pointless, nor is being evil consequenceless or one-sided.

Then I bet you'd like Code Geass since it is exactly like this.

Well, arguably it becomes black vs. black at the end rather than grey vs. grey, but whatever.

Ugh, yeah, I hate stories that end like that.

One miserable bastard vs another miserable bastard. You can only hope they both die.

[Scomagia]

"Black and White" morality is metaphorical and the stories in which it is present are also more metaphorical than the stories in which a "Shades of Gray" morality is present. The aims of metaphorical works and literal works, beyond the obviously mutual goal of entertainment, are rather different.

Metaphorical stories don't try to show the world as it is or people as they really are, instead these stories show truth about the human heart through symbolism and exaggeration. In these stories characters aren't good or bad based on what they actually do but rather for possessing the qualities that lead them to do what they do. (e.g. Honor, loyalty, justice, love, etc. for the "Good" characters. Treachery, capriciousness, jealousy, anger, revenge, etc. for the "Evil" characters.) This symbolism and exaggeration is meant to illustrate the effect and power of these qualities. Indeed, metaphorical stories tend to have a kind of fatalism at their core, leading characters to continue taking moral or immoral actions as long as they possess those qualities, even if those actions actually run contrary to their goals. Characters in these stories are unable to make choices that run contrary to their qualities unless their qualities shift ( e.g. Anakin Skywalker turns to the dark side because the qualities of anger and fear become dominant within him. Likewise, Darth Vader redeems himself because the quality of familial love becomes dominant).

Literal works, on the other hand, strive for a more realistic portrayal of the world and the people who live in it. These "gray" morality stories are less about the qualities in the characters hearts and more about these choices they make in the pursuit of their goals. The characters of these stories may be pursuing moral or immoral ends using moral or immoral means based upon the (often subtle and contradictory) motivations within them. Much of the drama in these stories comes from the inner conflict these characters face. Will they sacrifice goodness in their means to achieve the ultimate goodness of their ends? Will the darker character abide mercy unexpectedly and face an internal crisis over the extremes she has previously taken? A lighter character may begin to doubt the merit of his goal and abandon it in pursuit of a more selfish one. It is this rich potential of possible motivations and means that is central to these stories, just as it is central to our lives.

Obviously there is a lot of room for overlap as few stories are entirely literal or metaphorical. A story may possess both literal and metaphorical type characters. In the end, both types of story are useful for entertainment and for pointing out truths about the human heart.

Tldr; "Black and White" stories are about the qualities the character possesses, "Gray and Gray" stories are about the characters themselves and how motivations, means, and ends conflict.

[Hamilpore]

I think people look too in-depth in entertainment. Sometimes stories are just easier to follow when there is a good-bad guy divide. This makes it especially easy for children to enjoy this type of entertainment. In fact, Star Wars, arguably the most popular cinematic franchise to every be released, had the 'good vs evil' story trope.

Now, there are places for complex story telling in movies and books. These are absolutely great to watch and can spark discussions of morality. But, to say that one should sacrifice the simpler stories seems to be a bit of a stretch.

[Chestaan]

If the settings are fictional and there are no direct connections to real world groups or people then I think the simplistic good vs evil stories are not so much a problem. What is a problem is when these evil entities are tied to the real world. One particularly effective piece of propaganda during the Cold War was in painting the Russians as unambiguously evil and the West/America as the righteous defenders of all that is good in many stories. Earlier Westerns can also be quite bad, constantly showing things from one side and painting the natives as savages who needed to be defeated.

[Salus Maior]

I don't think it's a problem. Most stories that are that flat are really only meant for very young children, to introduce them to the concept of good and evil. That concept can be fleshed out as they develop and can comprehend more.

[The Parkus Empire]

No, fantasy is supposed to involve metaphysical truth. "Materialist fantasy" makes no sense, that's just science fiction. Lord of the Rings is great fantasy. Game of Thrones is not.

[Durin VII]

On one side no, as it teaches (mainly) children about what's good and what isn't.

On the other side yes, as 1) The stories can be a form of indoctrination into what is supposed to be good and what is supposed to be bad, which i'm firmly against, and 2) Stories like these fail to show that humans are both 'good' and 'evil' at the same time.

All with all i wouldn't say they are bad, but i would say they should be treated with caution and knowledge that it is just a story and should not be interpreted as a guideline.

[The Parkus Empire]

On one side yes, as it teaches (mainly) children about what's good and what isn't.

On the other side no, as 1) The stories can be a form of indoctrination into what is supposed to be good and what is supposed to be bad, which i'm firmly against, and 2) Stories like these fail to show that humans are both 'good' and 'evil' at the same time.

All with all i wouldn't say they are bad, but i would say they should be treated with caution and knowledge that it is just a story and should not be interpreted as a guideline.

We should clearly throw out teaching children that rape and sexual assault are wrong, that would be "indoctrination".

[Durin VII]

On one side yes, as it teaches (mainly) children about what's good and what isn't.

On the other side no, as 1) The stories can be a form of indoctrination into what is supposed to be good and what is supposed to be bad, which i'm firmly against, and 2) Stories like these fail to show that humans are both 'good' and 'evil' at the same time.

All with all i wouldn't say they are bad, but i would say they should be treated with caution and knowledge that it is just a story and should not be interpreted as a guideline.

We should clearly throw out teaching children that rape and sexual assault are wrong, that would be "indoctrination".

Yes, it would, just like teaching children that they should love Kim Jong-Un, or that stoning people to death is a justified punishment for adultery.

[The Parkus Empire]

We should clearly throw out teaching children that rape and sexual assault are wrong, that would be "indoctrination".

Yes, it would, just like teaching children that they should love Kim Jong-Un, or that stoning people to death is a justified punishment for adultery.

Alright then, let's throw out teaching children any ethics and let it be Lord of the Flies. After all, indoctrinating them with ethics is unethical. We should probably also teach them that: ethics are unethical, because there is no moral wrong or right, just personal preference.

[The Parkus Empire]

Anyway, good or bad, they are a fantasy thing. Metaphysical nihilism has no place in fantasy, materialist fantasy is about as coherent as communist banking, atheist theology, anarchist statecraft, or pacifist warfare

[Pope Joan]

Yes, we buy into that myth too easily.

We are led to demonize our opponents, they are evil.

Just look at the current state of social media!

Whatever happened to civil discourse?

A half century ago the parties and their leaders did not treat each other this way.

And I think this approach has led us to disasters in Iraq and Libya and, if we have our stubborn way, in Syria

[Valrifell]

Yes, we buy into that myth too easily.

We are led to demonize our opponents, they are evil.

Just look at the current state of social media!

Whatever happened to civil discourse?

A half century ago the parties and their leaders did not treat each other this way.

And I think this approach has led us to disasters in Iraq and Libya and, if we have our stubborn way, in Syria

But the narrative structure has been around for far longer than the current problems with partisanship, and people have bought into black and white morality for way longer.

Remember that a lot of prominent fairy tales, folklore, and myths feature clear good/bad dichotomies.

[Pope Joan]

Yes, we buy into that myth too easily.

We are led to demonize our opponents, they are evil.

Just look at the current state of social media!

Whatever happened to civil discourse?

A half century ago the parties and their leaders did not treat each other this way.

And I think this approach has led us to disasters in Iraq and Libya and, if we have our stubborn way, in Syria

But the narrative structure has been around for far longer than the current problems with partisanship, and people have bought into black and white morality for way longer.

Remember that a lot of prominent fairy tales, folklore, and myths feature clear good/bad dichotomies.

and now we have social media with its algorithms to continually fan those fires
maybe for some it is fun and games, but it will lead to bloodshed

[Greed and Death]

They are good for children they are terrible once the kid is over the age of 10.

I think our lack of depth in movies has produced a generation that takes the we are good they are bad approach in politics.

[Greed and Death]

Yes, we buy into that myth too easily.

We are led to demonize our opponents, they are evil.

Just look at the current state of social media!

Whatever happened to civil discourse?

A half century ago the parties and their leaders did not treat each other this way.

And I think this approach has led us to disasters in Iraq and Libya and, if we have our stubborn way, in Syria

But the narrative structure has been around for far longer than the current problems with partisanship, and people have bought into black and white morality for way longer.

Remember that a lot of prominent fairy tales, folklore, and myths feature clear good/bad dichotomies.

Social media has allowed people to predominately socialize with those who agree with them. Before widespread social media you had to socialize with your neighbors or co workers. Now people shut down those avenues people when they realize they disagree and they seek people on the net who agree with them.