Corporatism has been around a lot longer than capitalism; and is an inherent component to distributism.
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by Dagashi Shoujo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:33 pm
by Dagashi Shoujo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:34 pm
Italios wrote:though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism),
by Nova Anglicana » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:44 pm
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:47 pm
Dagashi Shoujo wrote:Dejanic wrote:It's certainly debateable, which is why I didn't add it in the POLL. I'm willing to grant Distributionism, but Corporatism just seems like hyper Capitalism with class collaboration and a fat state.
Corporatism has been around a lot longer than capitalism; and is an inherent component to distributism.
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:48 pm
Nova Anglicana wrote:I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?
I wouldn't describe myself as a capitalist or a socialist. I'm anti-capitalist to the extent that I abhor Wall Street money-changers who suck the profit out of enterprises without contributing anything or saving jobs (Good example here). I think the way we currently do things is cruel. However, I don't advocate for complete government or social ownership of the means of production and I support private property. I'm generally supportive of things like co-operatively owned businesses and worker representation on the boards of corporations.
So, I'm dissatisfied with some of the ways we do things, but not interested in the overthrow of capitalism, as it generally does a good job of creating wealth. Just my thoughts, neither anti-capitalist nor pro-capitalist.
by Al-Ismailiyya » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:53 pm
by Al-Ismailiyya » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:56 pm
by Aillyria » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:01 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist
West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".
by Nova Anglicana » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:42 pm
Dejanic wrote:Nova Anglicana wrote:I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?
I wouldn't describe myself as a capitalist or a socialist. I'm anti-capitalist to the extent that I abhor Wall Street money-changers who suck the profit out of enterprises without contributing anything or saving jobs (Good example here). I think the way we currently do things is cruel. However, I don't advocate for complete government or social ownership of the means of production and I support private property. I'm generally supportive of things like co-operatively owned businesses and worker representation on the boards of corporations.
So, I'm dissatisfied with some of the ways we do things, but not interested in the overthrow of capitalism, as it generally does a good job of creating wealth. Just my thoughts, neither anti-capitalist nor pro-capitalist.
I suggest you keep on reading and see where your thoughts lead you. Have you ever read Marx or any other Socialist Literature?
by Thermodolia » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:46 pm
by Thermodolia » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:50 pm
Italios wrote:Tritos Ellinikos Politismos wrote:What about far right like National Socialism and Fascism? And it's not only these two, there more than a dozen of Far right ideologies that despise Communism, where are they?
Nazism is not anti-capitalist, and though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism), being against communism is usually good indicator that something is not anti-capitalist
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:19 pm
by The Grene Knyght » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:26 pm
Dejanic wrote:Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?
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by Italios » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:27 pm
Nova Anglicana wrote:Dejanic wrote:I suggest you keep on reading and see where your thoughts lead you. Have you ever read Marx or any other Socialist Literature?
My friend is a Marxist (of sorts) and a democratic socialist (in the actual sense, not in the Bernie Sanders actually a New Deal Democrat sort of sense), my thesis advisor was a Marxist, and I am a politics/ideology junkie. While I haven't read Capital, I understand the teleology of Marxist thought and I know the basics of socialism, etc. I'm just not a big believer in the "history of society is the history of class struggle". I'm a Keynesian. I know that makes me a dirty sellout/capitalist here.
Thermodolia wrote:Italios wrote:Nazism is not anti-capitalist, and though a few strains of fascism might be anti-capitalist (third positionism), being against communism is usually good indicator that something is not anti-capitalist
But being against communism doesn’t mean that you are for capitalism. It’s not an either or thing
Dejanic wrote:Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:30 pm
The Grene Knyght wrote:Dejanic wrote:Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?
W-what? B-b-but I thought Socialism was having high taxes, capitalism was owning guns, and fascism was when the NS mods ban you for spamming white supremacist talking points...
Is everything I know a lie..?
by Major-Tom » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:33 pm
Nova Anglicana wrote:I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?
I wouldn't describe myself as a capitalist or a socialist. I'm anti-capitalist to the extent that I abhor Wall Street money-changers who suck the profit out of enterprises without contributing anything or saving jobs (Good example here). I think the way we currently do things is cruel. However, I don't advocate for complete government or social ownership of the means of production and I support private property. I'm generally supportive of things like co-operatively owned businesses and worker representation on the boards of corporations.
So, I'm dissatisfied with some of the ways we do things, but not interested in the overthrow of capitalism, as it generally does a good job of creating wealth. Just my thoughts, neither anti-capitalist nor pro-capitalist.
by MERIZoC » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:14 pm
Italios wrote:
this man spends his life advancing the rights of albanian women, who, until his rise to power, were equal to a sack of flour under traditional albanian law, and you think he would objectify a woman like that? sickening.
by MERIZoC » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:15 pm
Nova Anglicana wrote:I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?
by Taihei Tengoku » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:17 pm
MERIZoC wrote:Nova Anglicana wrote:I would describe myself as broadly anti-consumerist and anti-"vulture capitalism". I have no love for the buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend, culture that pervades many countries. Stuff is useful, but I already have too much of it for my own good, so why do we need to rush out and buy everything new and shiny?
You should look into degrowth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth
by Being Very Gay » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:26 pm
Dejanic wrote:Genuine question for Americans. Where did the idea that Socialism=Taxes and public spending come from? Because it seems like many from both sides of the political spectrum in the US don't understand what Socialism is and think that Sweden is Socialist. Is it just a misunderstanding or is this actually taught in college Politics classes?
by Collatis » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:28 pm
Dejanic wrote:socialism=Sweden, its basikaly a society with more equal stuff and free healthcare. remember usa is technicaly socialist cos of government military
communism=dicktatorship, where government runs everything and kils people in gulag. communism is right wing and an enemie of liberalism
fascism=communism 4 bigots. fare right and left r same, horsepoo theory
anarkhizm=chaos and the sex pistols
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
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by Bakery Hill » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:06 pm
Collatis wrote:I've essentially become a supporter of market socialism, in the manner that John Stuart Mill described and advocated for: “The form of association, however, which if mankind continue to improve, must be expected in the end to predominate, is not that which can exist between a capitalist as chief, and work-people without a voice in the management, but the association of the labourers themselves on terms of equality, collectively owning the capital with which they carry on their operations, and working under managers elected and removable by themselves.”Dejanic wrote:socialism=Sweden, its basikaly a society with more equal stuff and free healthcare. remember usa is technicaly socialist cos of government military
communism=dicktatorship, where government runs everything and kils people in gulag. communism is right wing and an enemie of liberalism
fascism=communism 4 bigots. fare right and left r same, horsepoo theory
anarkhizm=chaos and the sex pistols
Sounds about right.
by Collatis » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:15 pm
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
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