Valentine Z wrote:At the same time, maybe a healthy dose of capitalism; not too much, but enough to drive forward innovation.
What does this 'innovation' thing even mean? Why is capitalism necessary for innovation?
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by The Widening Gyre » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:45 pm
Valentine Z wrote:At the same time, maybe a healthy dose of capitalism; not too much, but enough to drive forward innovation.
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:50 pm
by Orostan » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:55 pm
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”
Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"
by The New California Republic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:55 pm
by Hirota » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:56 pm
Yeah no. We've had multiple rulings several times that there is no thread ownership in General and critics can participate in threads about a subject.Dejanic wrote:This is a thread designed as a safe space for those of the Anti-Capitalist, whether they be revolutionary or reformist, Marxist or Anarchist! Whilst I expect it to be predominantly Leftist, right wing Anti-Capitalists like distributionists are more than welcome! Questions from learners are permitted, but this thread is not designed as a debate place for Capitalists to discuss the merits of their economic ideology.
by Fascesia » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:57 pm
Dejanic wrote:Fascesia wrote:Well, you really have to be a real genius if you want to plan the whole f*cking economy and make it work efficiently
Well no one advocates for pure state planning (Juche?). From a Trot perspective there's generally a belief in state planning in vital sectors, with decentralised planning/workers councils in others, usually organised alongside local lines. A mixture of centralised/decentralised.
by Orostan » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:02 pm
The New California Republic wrote:I have mainly settled on the idea of a mixed economy, just based on the negative experiences of socialist economies of the 20th century, that encountered serious economic difficulties after rapid nationalization/collectivization of industries. Serious economic problems resulted later on from such rapid implementation of socialism. I think that a more gradual transition would mitigate such problems. Perhaps something like the Czechoslovakian experiment in 1968 before the Soviets intervened. I would support a mixed economy moving gradually towards socialism. And by gradually I don't mean a couple of decades, I mean at least a century or two, very gradual in comparison to previous attempts at socialism.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”
Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"
by Fascesia » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:03 pm
Hirota wrote:Yeah no. We've had multiple rulings several times that there is no thread ownership in General and critics can participate in threads about a subject.Dejanic wrote:This is a thread designed as a safe space for those of the Anti-Capitalist, whether they be revolutionary or reformist, Marxist or Anarchist! Whilst I expect it to be predominantly Leftist, right wing Anti-Capitalists like distributionists are more than welcome! Questions from learners are permitted, but this thread is not designed as a debate place for Capitalists to discuss the merits of their economic ideology.
You don't get to decide who does or does not participate in a thread. As long as they don't break forum rules, then you are out of luck.
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:04 pm
Fascesia wrote:Dejanic wrote:Well no one advocates for pure state planning (Juche?). From a Trot perspective there's generally a belief in state planning in vital sectors, with decentralised planning/workers councils in others, usually organised alongside local lines. A mixture of centralised/decentralised.
Aaand here I go again sympathising with Trotsky more and more
Other question:
Dafuq is Marxist-Leninist-Obamaism?
Some sort of alt-right conspiracy theory about Obama‘s „socialism“?
by Italios » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:11 pm
Dejanic wrote:Italios wrote:concept: could we get a small guide that covers common misconceptions about anticapitalism in the OP so this thread doesnt get spammed with the same half-baked opinions all the time?
I've added some basic definitions and a link to an FAQ from /r/Socialism. Though in Valentines defence we all started somewhere and I don't mind Liberals with a genuine interest who want to learn more and ask questions. Though as stressed, this is generally not a Capitalist vs Socialist thread (millions of them already) , and is more one for internal discussion.
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm
Italios wrote:Dejanic wrote:I've added some basic definitions and a link to an FAQ from /r/Socialism. Though in Valentines defence we all started somewhere and I don't mind Liberals with a genuine interest who want to learn more and ask questions. Though as stressed, this is generally not a Capitalist vs Socialist thread (millions of them already) , and is more one for internal discussion.
Fair enough, though I'd say be wary when using r/soc as anything more than an object of ridicule. because a lot of users there are misinformed and have agendas to spread. The environment is also quite toxic and we wouldn't want any wayward souls ending up there. It might be nice to, at some point, get some links up to authors and works from an anti-capitalistic perspective, whether leftist or reactionary, so visitors to this thread can gain a better understanding of anti-capitalist thought (whether they are at odds with it or not)
by Italios » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:16 pm
Fascesia wrote:Hirota wrote:Yeah no. We've had multiple rulings several times that there is no thread ownership in General and critics can participate in threads about a subject.
You don't get to decide who does or does not participate in a thread. As long as they don't break forum rules, then you are out of luck.
I also dislike the idea of safe spaces. And on the internet, especially in this particular forum, you can‘t enforce anything except for the general site rules.
Furthermore, I‘d love to talk to someone who actually believes that corporatism is a good idea. And as it‘s also an anti-capitalist economic model, I hope this will happen sooner or later.
by The Grene Knyght » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:16 pm
Fascesia wrote:I‘d love to talk to someone who actually believes that corporatism is a good idea. And as it‘s also an anti-capitalist economic model
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by Italios » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:18 pm
Dejanic wrote:Italios wrote:Fair enough, though I'd say be wary when using r/soc as anything more than an object of ridicule. because a lot of users there are misinformed and have agendas to spread. The environment is also quite toxic and we wouldn't want any wayward souls ending up there. It might be nice to, at some point, get some links up to authors and works from an anti-capitalistic perspective, whether leftist or reactionary, so visitors to this thread can gain a better understanding of anti-capitalist thought (whether they are at odds with it or not)
The discussion is pretty poor on r/soc and I generally avoid the place as its full of Soc Dems, but the resources in the side bar are pretty stellar. One good thing about r/soc is its at the very least a place for "alltheleft" and isn't directly sectarian. What are your politics if I may ask?
I'll update the OP (when I'm less tired) and add some general links to some more resources/authors.
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:18 pm
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:21 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Social market economy, ftw.
by Dejanic » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:23 pm
Orostan wrote:Have you accepted the word of our lord and savior Paul Cockshott?
by United Muscovite Nations » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:24 pm
by Fascesia » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:28 pm
by Italios » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:32 pm
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