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by Atlantic Tide » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:40 pm
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:40 pm
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:41 pm
Atlantic Tide wrote:Come back to the one true original faith - The Roman Catholic Church!
by Eli Islands » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:42 pm
Corpus Magnus wrote:Eli Islands wrote:I am showing you where i'm getting this idea from so you can correct me if i'm interpreting them wrong.
No, I understand you. It's just that your evidence is conflicting - first you provided two verses, one from the Bible and one from the BoM, that both show that grace alone brings salvation, and from that you draw the extrapolation that we believe good works bring salvation. Then you cited three Bible verses that basically explain the Mormon belief in three sentences. I'm not really following your train of thought.
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:05 pm
Luminesa wrote:Corpus Magnus wrote:But they act as one. Technically there is a difference, but practically there is not.
...If they share a will, and a substance...then they’re one. Can you show specifically where in the Bible it says they’re not one substance? (If you’ve already done so and I missed it, I apologize. I been busy RPing all morning!)
by The Empire of Pretantia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:56 pm
Atlantic Tide wrote:Come back to the one true original faith - The Roman Catholic Church!
by Auze » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:04 pm
Atlantic Tide wrote:Come back to the one true original faith - The Roman Catholic Church!
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:05 pm
by Hakons » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:13 pm
Tarsonis wrote:Hakons wrote:
I thought Catholicism affirmed Sola Gratia? We are not saved by our number of works, but by the grace of Christ's sacrifice. Salvation is a gift and not a reward.
This is different from the debate over Sola Fide, or faith vs. faith plus works.
Catholics affirm Sola Gratia in that yes salvation is a gift and that no amount of works can ever merit salvation. But that's not to say works have no place within the economy of salvation:
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters,[a] if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.
by Hakons » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:14 pm
by Auze » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:27 pm
by Hakons » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:29 pm
Corpus Magnus wrote:Luminesa wrote:...If they share a will, and a substance...then they’re one. Can you show specifically where in the Bible it says they’re not one substance? (If you’ve already done so and I missed it, I apologize. I been busy RPing all morning!)
John 17, and other times when Jesus speaks/prays to God
Hebrews 1, and other times when God speaks to Jesus
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
1 Timothy 2:5 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
My question: Where in the Bible does it say they are one substance?
by Hakons » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:35 pm
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:58 pm
Hakons wrote:Corpus Magnus wrote:John 17, and other times when Jesus speaks/prays to God
Hebrews 1, and other times when God speaks to Jesus
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
1 Timothy 2:5 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
My question: Where in the Bible does it say they are one substance?
We've been providing so many verses, my goodness.
John Ch.1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
by The Archregimancy » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:03 pm
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:06 pm
Hakons wrote:War Gears wrote:
Come back to the true original faith - Judaism.
They were at least monotheistic.
I mean, I'm still not seeing how 1st century Christians, who were mostly converted Jews, abandoned their God and proclaimed the existence of three, but actually didn't write about it too much, and the rest of Christianity forgot about it and returned to monotheism.
by Hakons » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:07 pm
Corpus Magnus wrote:Hakons wrote:
We've been providing so many verses, my goodness.
John Ch.1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
How does this support the trinitarian view?
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:08 pm
by Tarsonis » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:12 pm
Corpus Magnus wrote:Hakons wrote:
They were at least monotheistic.
I mean, I'm still not seeing how 1st century Christians, who were mostly converted Jews, abandoned their God and proclaimed the existence of three, but actually didn't write about it too much, and the rest of Christianity forgot about it and returned to monotheism.
The original Christians were not trinitarian.
by Hakons » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:12 pm
Corpus Magnus wrote:Hakons wrote:
They were at least monotheistic.
I mean, I'm still not seeing how 1st century Christians, who were mostly converted Jews, abandoned their God and proclaimed the existence of three, but actually didn't write about it too much, and the rest of Christianity forgot about it and returned to monotheism.
The original Christians were not trinitarian.
by Hakons » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:14 pm
by Corpus Magnus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:31 pm
by The Archregimancy » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:33 pm
Corpus Magnus wrote:The original Christians were not trinitarian.
Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever ye do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
by Auze » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:42 pm
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