Race and IQ

[USS Monitor]

Regardless, does it really matter anyway? What do people think this implies, that we should create some Brave New World type of order, or is it merely to justify some sense of superiority for those who feel attacked that they're not placed on a special pedestal due to the accident of their birth.

It honestly isn't that important, since even if there is a difference, it's just an average, and you'll still meet individuals whose intelligence is all over the map.

I don't think the idea of genetic differences that correlate with race should be pre-emptively dismissed just because it's politically incorrect, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to pigeonhole people and ignore their individuality either.

[Bombadil]

Regardless, does it really matter anyway? What do people think this implies, that we should create some Brave New World type of order, or is it merely to justify some sense of superiority for those who feel attacked that they're not placed on a special pedestal due to the accident of their birth.

It honestly isn't that important, since even if there is a difference, it's just an average, and you'll still meet individuals whose intelligence is all over the map.

I don't think the idea of genetic differences that correlate with race should be pre-emptively dismissed just because it's politically incorrect, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to pigeonhole people and ignore their individuality either.

One could take height for example, a degree of genetics and environment will generally determine height.. but at some point there is no changing your height. Intelligence differs in the plasticity of the brain, which is reduced but continues after adolescence. Yet we would no more judge a race by its average height in terms of their place in society than we should intelligence, and height is far more determinable and rigid.

In fact there is a degree of correlation with height and success, the average height of CEOs and presidents is quite above the national average but I suspect we'd all agree this is a point of perception.. even in words.. 'we look up to'.. and nothing intrinsic in height that makes one successful or not.

[Eastfield Lodge]

It honestly isn't that important, since even if there is a difference, it's just an average, and you'll still meet individuals whose intelligence is all over the map.

I don't think the idea of genetic differences that correlate with race should be pre-emptively dismissed just because it's politically incorrect, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to pigeonhole people and ignore their individuality either.

One could take height for example, a degree of genetics and environment will generally determine height.. but at some point there is no changing your height. Intelligence differs in the plasticity of the brain, which is reduced but continues after adolescence. Yet we would no more judge a race by its average height in terms of their place in society than we should intelligence, and height is far more determinable and rigid.

In fact there is a degree of correlation with height and success, the average height of CEOs and presidents is quite above the national average but I suspect we'd all agree this is a point of perception.. even in words.. 'we look up to'.. and nothing intrinsic in height that makes one successful or not.

It matters to HMS, because it determines in his worldview who the inferior people of the world are, and therefore who should be colonised/enslaved for the benefit of his higher intelligence ancap imperialist brethren.

[Oil exporting People]

In fact there is a degree of correlation with height and success, the average height of CEOs and presidents is quite above the national average but I suspect we'd all agree this is a point of perception.. even in words.. 'we look up to'.. and nothing intrinsic in height that makes one successful or not.

IIRC, there's been several studies that have shown those who are taller literally do get looked up too more; shorter men are more likely to defer to their leadership and women prefer them. As well, one could point out that most CEOs and Presidents tend to have high IQs, so that could be their reason their success and their height is just ancillary to such.

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

No, that's not what statistical predictor means. This sort of misconception is why many leftists fear social sciences. Researchs that indicate that average black IQ is one standard deviation below average IQ aren't meant to be personal attacks against individual blacks or whoever - what is being demonstrated is general pattern with varying degree of correlation. Besides, biology is mutable while society is fixed.

Iirc I'm sure that the gap remains even after social factors are controlled. Individual variations are just what they are - of course there are very smart black people, just because they are fewer in number compared to smart white/Asian people should not be a ground to discriminate them.

The OP seems to be focussing (I did not see the original discussion of which this is a splitoff) on countries like Iran and Egypt. Countries that a few thousand years ago were pinnacles of civilisation with grand cities making big strides in e.g. mathematics while white men were still living in huts and had trouble with counting beyond five.

What changed ?

Funny enough, the Persians were white before the Arab conquest.

[Darussalam]

Funny enough, the Persians were white before the Arab conquest.

And they weren't after converted to Islam?

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

Funny enough, the Persians were white before the Arab conquest.

And they weren't after converted to Islam?

Modern Iranians have a lot of Arab admixture, for the most part there aren't many ethnic Persians anymore - in the same way there aren't many ethnic Greeks anymore.

[Darussalam]

And they weren't after converted to Islam?

Modern Iranians have a lot of Arab admixture, for the most part there aren't many ethnic Persians anymore - in the same way there aren't many ethnic Greeks anymore.

Sounds dubious. Not that it has much relevance, unless you're implying Iranians and Egyptians stopped being great when they stopped being whites which is dumb since Mediterraneans are never white to begin with

[Aellex]

whats an iq

>mfw he says that with this sig
GG man, you just made my day.

[Katzenstaat]

So? Completely different peoples with completely different, often separate histories currently sit above a historically constructed standard. Neat. And what can we assess from that phenomenon?

Failed examples may also be self-selecting.

Compare north koreas IQ for example.

If a country tumbles into instability and civil war, we may see lower intelligence among the populace due to infrastructure problems, famines, etc.

I'm back.

North Korea is orderly. This is what happens when an intelligent nation is being evil. It is fucking hard to stop them.

[Katzenstaat]

And they weren't after converted to Islam?

Modern Iranians have a lot of Arab admixture, for the most part there aren't many ethnic Persians anymore - in the same way there aren't many ethnic Greeks anymore.

When are Arabs non-white in any sensible, genetic definition of whiteness?

[Katzenstaat]

This is sort of discussion could only evolve out of the British thread is a fact, it is also to be noted that IQ tests are solely western instruments which were once used by White countries to get white immigrants on what was once non white land. It also noted that they cater to western audiences and correlation between IQ and race is something which western countries want to prove, the whole reason behind this is to prove other races as inferior. The west's love for eugenics continues on till this date.

Which is why East Asians and Jews are measured to have the highest IQ?

I'm sure the best way to prove a person's inferiority is to show that they have a low IQ, wouldn't you say?

LOL yeah.

[Katzenstaat]

Well race isn't really irrelevant since it is clear that sub-saharan Africans, Europeans, East Asians and Amerindians are all very different to one another.

In what ways beyond the visual differences?

Yes.

[Katzenstaat]

OP might want to edit the first post to try and list down his initial argument, because right now it sounds like he's saying I'm not as smart because I'm brown and not much else - which I'm hoping isn't actually the case. Is it actually because of skin color? Or, what? Historical factors?

Agreed. Individuals vary a lot within a race.

[Trumptonium]

Modern Iranians have a lot of Arab admixture, for the most part there aren't many ethnic Persians anymore - in the same way there aren't many ethnic Greeks anymore.

When are Arabs non-white

always

[Katzenstaat]

When are Arabs non-white

always

Genetically that does not make too much sense.

[Trumptonium]

always

Genetically that does not make too much sense.

neither do nipples in men

what's your point though

[Katzenstaat]

Genetically that does not make too much sense.

neither do nipples in men

what's your point though

Race is a biological concept, not a social one.

[Community Values]

neither do nipples in men

what's your point though

Race is a biological concept, not a social one.

Whats the difference between a northern Italian and a French person, biologically?

[Katzenstaat]

Race is a biological concept, not a social one.

Whats the difference between a northern Italian and a French person, biologically?

They aren't of different races.

I expect a high level of overlap between northern Italians and French people. Maybe Razib Khan has done some work on it? Overall the genetic difference within Europe is very small, so is the genetic difference between Europeans and northern Arabs (Palestinians etc).

[Community Values]

Whats the difference between a northern Italian and a French person, biologically?

They aren't of different races.

I expect a high level of overlap between northern Italians and French people. Maybe Razib Khan has done some work on it? Overall the genetic difference within Europe is very small, so is the genetic difference between Europeans and northern Arabs (Palestinians etc).

Yes they are. One is Italian, the other is French.

[Katzenstaat]

They aren't of different races.

I expect a high level of overlap between northern Italians and French people. Maybe Razib Khan has done some work on it? Overall the genetic difference within Europe is very small, so is the genetic difference between Europeans and northern Arabs (Palestinians etc).

Yes they are. One is Italian, the other is French.

How are they races?

It is true that races have no clear-cut boundaries. However it is absurd to claim that nationality, language or ethnic affiliation can cause race-level splits.

[Chestaan]

I mean exactly what I said. Regression analysis showing that the reason race X has a different IQ than race Y is purely because of race and not due to other factors such as education levels.

I was asking for a clarification of what you were seeking; no need to get all passive aggressive there bud. As for your question, I'd recommend looking up the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, although I'm not sure if that's exactly what you're seeking. If you're wanting on data on education outcomes and funding; then the Kansas City experiment and comparison of SAT scores by race and income level is some other stuff you can look at:

There are a number of reasons that are being advanced to explain the continuing and growing black-white SAT scoring gap. Sharp differences in family incomes are a major factor. Always there has been a direct correlation between family income and SAT scores. For both blacks and whites, as income goes up, so do test scores. In 2005, 28 percent of all black SAT test takers were from families with annual incomes below $20,000. Only 5 percent of white test takers were from families with incomes below $20,000. At the other extreme, 7 percent of all black test takers were from families with incomes of more than $100,000. The comparable figure for white test takers is 27 percent.

But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:

• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.

• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.

• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.

This still isn't a proper analysis. There are a myriad of factors that affect SAT scores, even more so than IQ I would guess.

[Community Values]

Yes they are. One is Italian, the other is French.

How are they races?

Maybe I didn't use the right example.
The difference between Nordics and Mediterraneans?

[USS Monitor]

Yes they are. One is Italian, the other is French.

How are they races?

It is true that races have no clear-cut boundaries. However it is absurd to claim that nationality, language or ethnic affiliation can cause race-level splits.

Explain that to the Southern Confederacy with their complaints about "the Yankee race."