Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Asherahan]

Stalin says what?

[Trotskylvania]

Stalin says what?

'The second tale comes from Artyom Sergeev, Stalin’s adopted son. Sergeev recalled one night when Stalin learned that his biological son, Vasily, used his famous name to escape punishment from one of drunken binges. In response to Stalin’s rage, Vasily said, “But I’m a Stalin too.” “No you’re not,” Stalin rebuffed. “You’re not Stalin and I’m not Stalin. Stalin is Soviet power. Stalin is what he is in the newspapers and the portraits, not you, not even me!'

[The Snazzylands]

If anyone wants a chuckle at An-Caps expense btw.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capita ... in_greece/

Thanks for this. Capitalists insisting that they're real anarchists will never cease to amuse me.

If you mean whined about how much he hates him and called him names in a book that was published much after his death in what is described as an underedited version of the work.... sure.

Capitalism is based upon egoism. Communism cannot.

How so? Is it wrong for workers to advocate communism because they know it's in their best interests?

[Mattopilos II]

If you mean whined about how much he hates him and called him names in a book that was published much after his death in what is described as an underedited version of the work.... sure.

Capitalism is based upon egoism. Communism cannot.

Egoism =/= egotism.

[Aellex]

This whole depiction of the left and right is itself rightist propaganda, though.

This is what rightists want you to believe.

Not really tbh, it's quite accurate a description.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

How so? Is it wrong for workers to advocate communism because they know it's in their best interests?

Their best interests, certainly. My best interests, no.

[Trotskylvania]

Capitalism is based upon egoism. Communism cannot.

Egoism =/= egotism.

Basing communism on egoism is just an inverted moralism.

[El Hamidah]

Tbf, people will always be more inclined to listen to people telling them to be proud of who they are than to people telling them that they're evil and should hate themselves.

This whole depiction of the left and right is itself rightist propaganda, though.

This is what rightists want you to believe.

>Left vs Right is a lie
>"Rightists"

[Roosevetania]

So you.
-Oppose abortion
-Oppose gay rights
-Believe in laws prohibiting freedom of political expression
-Support the Iraq war
-Support the war on terror
-Support big government police state

How are you a Libertarian exactly? And not just a Conservative big statist trying to be hip.

When have I opposed gay rights, supported the War on Terror/Iraq War, or endorsed the police state? My leanings are with paleoconservatives and paleolibertarians first and foremost.

Supporting Lassez-Faire economics does not make you a libertarian.

[Collatis]

This whole depiction of the left and right is itself rightist propaganda, though.

This is what rightists want you to believe.

Disappointed that this isn't about the Political Compass.

[Dejanic]

Need a poll option for Marxist-Anarchist-Potism plz.

[Trotskylvania]

Need a poll option for Marxist-Anarchist-Potism plz.

Post-Ironic Council Posadasism

[Northern Davincia]

When have I opposed gay rights, supported the War on Terror/Iraq War, or endorsed the police state? My leanings are with paleoconservatives and paleolibertarians first and foremost.

Supporting Lassez-Faire economics does not make you a libertarian.

I am also in favor of small government, if that really needs to be said.

[The New Sea Territory]

If you mean whined about how much he hates him and called him names in a book that was published much after his death in what is described as an underedited version of the work.... sure.

Capitalism is based upon egoism. Communism cannot.

It is fundamentally the opposite, and such moralism is an embarrassing grounds for criticism of contemporary capitalism because it remains within the language of either Christian, liberal or humanist thinking...the foundations of which have been challenged by the last two centuries of continental philosophy.

"Greed in its fullest sense is the only possible basis of communist society. (1) The present forms of greed lose out, in the end, because they turn out to be not greedy enough. (2)"

[The Liberated Territories]

When have I opposed gay rights, supported the War on Terror/Iraq War, or endorsed the police state? My leanings are with paleoconservatives and paleolibertarians first and foremost.

Supporting Lassez-Faire economics does not make you a libertarian.

It would make you fairly inconsistent though, since laissez-faire assumes non-intervention in the economy, and the economy encompasses so much that it basically bars the government from acting outside of a few specific roles (and even this is contentious amongst libertarians). Otherwise, you cannot be for "laissez faire" and then say that all the money collected should go for a massive military, otherwise the economy wouldn't be laissez faire at all.

[Dejanic]

Supporting Lassez-Faire economics does not make you a libertarian.

It would make you fairly inconsistent though, since laissez-faire assumes non-intervention in the economy, and the economy encompasses so much that it basically bars the government from acting outside of a few specific roles (and even this is contentious amongst libertarians). Otherwise, you cannot be for "laissez faire" and then say that all the money collected should go for a massive military, otherwise the economy wouldn't be laissez faire at all.

Hippo would disagree.

Rest his soul.

[The New Sea Territory]

This whole depiction of the left and right is itself rightist propaganda, though.

This is what rightists want you to believe.

>Left vs Right is a lie
>"Rightists"

I think you misread what I stated:

The depiction of the left as racial self-hate and the right as racial pride is a right-wing myth, repeated as political propaganda.

This whole depiction of the left and right is itself rightist propaganda, though.

This is what rightists want you to believe.

Not really tbh, it's quite accurate a description.

...only if you accept the bullshit premise of race, an subsequent racial consciousness or identity. This is what we spent the last page arguing over: the artificiality of a white identity when faced with actually-existing, organically developing ethnic identities (Polish, for example) or inter-ethnic identities (Slav, for example).

---

Egoism =/= egotism.

Basing communism on egoism is just an inverted moralism.

How so?

I disagree on the grounds that it is not an ethical egoist objection to capitalism, but the internal logic of egoism itself and the self-criticism of egoism by egoist measures.

Just as Marx's critique of capitalism is immanent rather than moralistic, that the underlying logic of capitalism pushes to a communist mode of production and that this is the historical answer to scarcity, so too is egoism's underlying logic pushing towards communism as sublating the contradiction between the two absolutes, the "individual" and "society".

[Aellex]

...only if you accept the bullshit premise of race, an subsequent racial consciousness or identity. This is what we spent the last page arguing over: the artificiality of a white identity when faced with actually-existing, organically developing ethnic identities (Polish, for example) or inter-ethnic identities (Slav, for example).

Not really no, we were talking about ethnic/nationalist identities to begin with, you just brought yourself race as a point when it hadn't be before.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

It is fundamentally the opposite, and such moralism is an embarrassing grounds for criticism of contemporary capitalism because it remains within the language of either Christian, liberal or humanist thinking...the foundations of which have been challenged by the last two centuries of continental philosophy.

"Greed in its fullest sense is the only possible basis of communist society. (1) The present forms of greed lose out, in the end, because they turn out to be not greedy enough. (2)"

Not so. Adam Smith, while certainly not an American-style libertarian or an anarcho-capitalist, based his entire perspective on Enlightenment rationalism and individualism (laissez-faire).

It is the premise of having a society based upon individual greed, and the imaginary natural law of the invisible hand, which was challenged by Marx and Engels.

Now, regarding your said moralism, I am a Bhaskarian critical realist and, therefore, a moral realist, not a moral relativist. To me, communism must be based on a nondualist morality (what Roy Bhaskar called the cosmic envelope, the ground state, or copresence). Greed and egoism, on the other hand, is what Bhaskar referred to as demireality. According to him, demireality represents the dialectics of capitalism in an unabsented (unresolved) state. He compares demireality with the Hindu concept of maya (illusion).

[Mattopilos II]

Egoism =/= egotism.

Basing communism on egoism is just an inverted moralism.

I don't see how, given I am not basing communism on egoism. Egoism is something I see first, and not as a means to reach communism or to "build" communism.

[Kubra]

so long as their work is waged and necessary for the realisation of the commodities value, yes.

But it's not. Under socialism, you wouldn't need things like car salesmen and and other people whose only job is to sell things, because you just need to ration out supplies.

Sure, but we ain't under socialism, different rules and mechanisms are in place.

[Aillyria]

But it's not. Under socialism, you wouldn't need things like car salesmen and and other people whose only job is to sell things, because you just need to ration out supplies.

Sure, but we ain't under socialism, different rules and mechanisms are in place.

That's only a given for non-market post scarcity lineages of socialism, not market socialism.

[Kubra]

Sure, but we ain't under socialism, different rules and mechanisms are in place.

That's only a given for non-market post scarcity lineages of socialism, not market socialism.

Sure whatever
Either way, it's what we got now, and present terms best describe present conditions

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sure, but we ain't under socialism, different rules and mechanisms are in place.

That's only a given for non-market post scarcity lineages of socialism, not market socialism.

>implying

[Aillyria]

[quote="United Muscovite Nations";p="33199142"][quote="Aillyria";p="33199128"][quote="Kubra";p="33199087"] Sure, but we ain't under socialism, different rules and mechanisms are in place.[/quote]
That's only a given for non-market post scarcity lineages of socialism, not [u][b]market socialism[/b][/u].[/quote]
>implying[/quote]
What?