by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:11 pm
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:23 pm
Housing Minister Alok Sharma has confessed that they haven't funded any crucial repairs in the six months since the blaze - despite 36 councils asking for help
HMS Barham wrote:Doesn't work as well with IQ90 populations as IQ105 populations though.
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by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:25 pm
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:27 pm
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:30 pm
HMS Barham wrote:Liriena wrote:People who obsess so much over IQ as a thinly veiled excuse for racism make me sad. It's like when incels obsess over the size and shape of jaws on a milimetric scale.
I've been pretty open believing in massive and important racial differences - racism - of which IQ is just one, albeit one of the more important and most easily measured. There is overwhelming evidence for it, and "the evidence makes me sad", at varying levels of complexity, seems to be the only counterargument I have found.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:30 pm
Liriena wrote:HMS Barham wrote:Then again I supported the war because I believed that it would turn Iraq into South Korea on the Euphrates, because at that time I still believed that all men are created equal.
Or, to put it more accurately, you failed to take into account the social, cultural, economic and political specificities of Iraq, ignorantly assumed that the same thing that had happened decades before in an entirely different context could be carbon-copied... and the lesson you took from your ignorant blunder was "I should have been more racist about it."
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:35 pm
HMS Barham wrote:Liriena wrote:Or, to put it more accurately, you failed to take into account the social, cultural, economic and political specificities of Iraq, ignorantly assumed that the same thing that had happened decades before in an entirely different context could be carbon-copied... and the lesson you took from your ignorant blunder was "I should have been more racist about it."
South Korea, Japan, Poland, Estonia, Singapore, Chile - they all carbon copies? Culturally, socially, politically identical? No.
But what they do have in common at IQ95+ populations.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:36 pm
Liriena wrote:HMS Barham wrote:I've been pretty open believing in massive and important racial differences - racism - of which IQ is just one, albeit one of the more important and most easily measured. There is overwhelming evidence for it, and "the evidence makes me sad", at varying levels of complexity, seems to be the only counterargument I have found.
That was not my counterargument, though.
My counterargument would be that you are looking at modern, historically constructed categories as an essential, natural underlying cause for the differences you see... which is the sort of simplistic, historically illiterate thinking that only someone with a racist confirmation bias and no genuine curiosity would resort to.
by Ostroeuropa » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:36 pm
Liriena wrote:HMS Barham wrote:South Korea, Japan, Poland, Estonia, Singapore, Chile - they all carbon copies? Culturally, socially, politically identical? No.
But what they do have in common at IQ95+ populations.
So? Completely different peoples with completely different, often separate histories currently sit above a historically constructed standard. Neat. And what can we assess from that phenomenon?
by Eastfield Lodge » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:39 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Liriena wrote:So? Completely different peoples with completely different, often separate histories currently sit above a historically constructed standard. Neat. And what can we assess from that phenomenon?
Failed examples may also be self-selecting.
Compare north koreas IQ for example.
If a country tumbles into instability and civil war, we may see lower intelligence among the populace due to infrastructure problems, famines, etc.
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:39 pm
Liriena wrote:HMS Barham wrote:South Korea, Japan, Poland, Estonia, Singapore, Chile - they all carbon copies? Culturally, socially, politically identical? No.
But what they do have in common at IQ95+ populations.
So? Completely different peoples with completely different, often separate histories currently sit above a historically constructed standard. Neat. And what can we assess from that phenomenon?
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:41 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Liriena wrote:So? Completely different peoples with completely different, often separate histories currently sit above a historically constructed standard. Neat. And what can we assess from that phenomenon?
Failed examples may also be self-selecting.
Compare north koreas IQ for example.
If a country tumbles into instability and civil war, we may see lower intelligence among the populace due to infrastructure problems, famines, etc.
by Eastfield Lodge » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:42 pm
HMS Barham wrote:So what are the problems with Iraq? The people are not that smart, nor that forward-looking. I can't even say it's Islam because the Kurds are Muslims and they were pretty much on-board with the US improving their country, rather than fighting an endless civil war to bring back the 7th century.
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:42 pm
HMS Barham wrote:My counterargument would be that you are looking at modern, historically constructed categories as an essential, natural underlying cause for the differences you see... which is the sort of simplistic, historically illiterate thinking that only someone with a racist confirmation bias and no genuine curiosity would resort to.
I am looking at biological reality. IQ is no more constructed than length or weight. Obviously, all the genuinely curious people believe what is comforting and popular.
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by Eibenland » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:44 pm
Eastfield Lodge wrote:HMS Barham wrote:So what are the problems with Iraq? The people are not that smart, nor that forward-looking. I can't even say it's Islam because the Kurds are Muslims and they were pretty much on-board with the US improving their country, rather than fighting an endless civil war to bring back the 7th century.
Wait, you're saying that Islam isn't a wholly negative thing that needs to be eliminated at all costs?
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:44 pm
HMS Barham wrote:I am looking at biological reality. IQ is no more constructed than length or weight. Obviously, all the genuinely curious people believe what is comforting and popular.
I wasn't talking about IQ. I was talking about race. Race, as a category, is quite modern and historically constructed. And it's not a "biological reality". Not really. Phenotypical and genetic differences are a biological reality, but categories like "black" and "white", or "African" and "European" are historically constructed and ultimately rooted more in social and cultural biases than hard science, and do a poor job of reflecting the history and complexity of phenotypical and genetic differences.
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:45 pm
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:46 pm
HMS Barham wrote:China was dirt poor until quite recently.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:47 pm
HMS Barham wrote:I wasn't talking about IQ. I was talking about race. Race, as a category, is quite modern and historically constructed. And it's not a "biological reality". Not really. Phenotypical and genetic differences are a biological reality, but categories like "black" and "white", or "African" and "European" are historically constructed and ultimately rooted more in social and cultural biases than hard science, and do a poor job of reflecting the history and complexity of phenotypical and genetic differences.
Race is at most as socially constructed as the colours of the rainbow. That doesn't mean that green light has the same wavelength as yellow light.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Eastfield Lodge » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:47 pm
HMS Barham wrote:Eibenland wrote:He's replaced "Islam is evil" with "Arabs are stupid".
I'm not sure I ever actually claimed Islam is evil, nor is Islam-bashing really my thing. I think Islam is a present enemy. Germany used to be our enemy; doesn't mean I believe the trains didn't run on time in Munich in 1940.
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:48 pm
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:48 pm
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:49 pm
by HMS Barham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:50 pm
Eastfield Lodge wrote:HMS Barham wrote:I'm not sure I ever actually claimed Islam is evil, nor is Islam-bashing really my thing. I think Islam is a present enemy. Germany used to be our enemy; doesn't mean I believe the trains didn't run on time in Munich in 1940.
Strange, I was of the opinion that you thought Islam was incompatible with your worldview and therefore had to destroyed...
by Liriena » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:50 pm
HMS Barham wrote:China was a dirt poor country in 1990, with a total GDP less than that of the Netherlands, a country with about 1% the population.
If modern European diet and living conditions were responsible for modern European IQ advantage over Arabs, then we would expect Chinese IQ to be comparable to that of Arabs, and rising rapidly. Instead, we see it has consistently been about the level of Europeans, and is rising (in relative terms) slowly or not at all.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
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