by Lenlyvit » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:41 pm
by Flanderlion » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:58 pm
by Jar Wattinree » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:01 pm
by Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:03 pm
by Lenlyvit » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:13 pm
by Fauxia » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:36 pm
by Unibot III » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:03 pm
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by The Church of Satan » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:19 pm
by Mount Seymour » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:12 pm
The Pacific Alpine Commonwealth of Mount Seymour
a.k.a. Somyrion, Aumeltopia
by Unibot III » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:49 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:I prefer Reject but I could settle for Catcher. I do agree though that TRR isn't a sinker. Lazarus, Balder and Osiris, being sinkers, have one thing in common that defines the nature of there purpose. They are where nations resurrect. TRR however is not such a place. So it is by definition not a sinker.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Minoa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:32 am
by Bears Armed » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:38 am
by Lenlyvit » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:07 am
Unibot III wrote:The Church of Satan wrote:I prefer Reject but I could settle for Catcher. I do agree though that TRR isn't a sinker. Lazarus, Balder and Osiris, being sinkers, have one thing in common that defines the nature of there purpose. They are where nations resurrect. TRR however is not such a place. So it is by definition not a sinker.
But 'sink' does makes a lot of sense for TRR. We're the place that everything else drains into.
If you want to rename anything it should be Lazarus, Osiris, and Balder. The term, "sinker" doesn't make all that much sense for respawning. You don't sink into them, you rise from them.
The term was created to describe TRR. Osiris and Balder are far newer. And Lazarus wasn't a fully functioning GCR until long after TRR had an established government. Lazarus, Osiris, and Balder just came to use the term, whether it's an accurate description of their regional mechanics or not.
My personal thought is, the terms should stay. We're all sinkers. But changing TRR specifically is stupid when it's the only sinker region that actually acts as a 'sink.' And for whom, the term, 'sinker' was created for. I also suspect the push to remove TRR from sinkerhood has more to do about today's geopolitics than anything else - TRR's presence is as inconvenient for the rise of a 'sinker nationalism' as we were for Francoism. My sense is we're witnessing the slow rise of a new ideological force that's calling for a 'sinker unity' around authoritarianism, invaderism and (arguably) useritism. Renaming TRR would just intervene in Gameplay politics.
Bears Armed wrote:Perhaps, for all four of them, 'Retreats'?
by Minoa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:16 am
Lenlyvit wrote:Unibot III wrote:
But 'sink' does makes a lot of sense for TRR. We're the place that everything else drains into.
If you want to rename anything it should be Lazarus, Osiris, and Balder. The term, "sinker" doesn't make all that much sense for respawning. You don't sink into them, you rise from them.
The term was created to describe TRR. Osiris and Balder are far newer. And Lazarus wasn't a fully functioning GCR until long after TRR had an established government. Lazarus, Osiris, and Balder just came to use the term, whether it's an accurate description of their regional mechanics or not.
My personal thought is, the terms should stay. We're all sinkers. But changing TRR specifically is stupid when it's the only sinker region that actually acts as a 'sink.' And for whom, the term, 'sinker' was created for. I also suspect the push to remove TRR from sinkerhood has more to do about today's geopolitics than anything else - TRR's presence is as inconvenient for the rise of a 'sinker nationalism' as we were for Francoism. My sense is we're witnessing the slow rise of a new ideological force that's calling for a 'sinker unity' around authoritarianism, invaderism and (arguably) useritism. Renaming TRR would just intervene in Gameplay politics.Bears Armed wrote:Perhaps, for all four of them, 'Retreats'?
Alright, so now it seems we are getting into the realm of possibly re-designating all four of the "sinker" regions so ill update the thread name to show that. Unibot's statement rings true on TRR being more like a "sinker" than the other sinkers, yet I still don't believe it accurately describes TRR and I don't think "sinker" is the correct term for the others either. Mayhaps a new designation, or a compromise, on all of them? TRR is full of the rejected nations of NS, so perhaps either the designation Reject or, to have a compromise, the designation Reject Sinker? As for the others, maybe the designation Reviver or Revival Sinker. This would more clearly state what they are, but not get rid of what they have been known as since they were created.
Edit: fixed a typo
by Lenlyvit » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:21 am
Minoa wrote:Lenlyvit wrote:
Alright, so now it seems we are getting into the realm of possibly re-designating all four of the "sinker" regions so ill update the thread name to show that. Unibot's statement rings true on TRR being more like a "sinker" than the other sinkers, yet I still don't believe it accurately describes TRR and I don't think "sinker" is the correct term for the others either. Mayhaps a new designation, or a compromise, on all of them? TRR is full of the rejected nations of NS, so perhaps either the designation Reject or, to have a compromise, the designation Reject Sinker? As for the others, maybe the designation Reviver or Revival Sinker. This would more clearly state what they are, but not get rid of what they have been known as since they were created.
Edit: fixed a typo
I don't think we need fancy terms to disambiguate between TRR (where ejected nations go) and the other three regions (where reactivated nations respawn).
by Flanderlion » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:39 am
by Guy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:52 am
[violet] wrote:Never underestimate the ability of admin to do nothing.
by Fratt » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:53 am
A spambot wrote:You said that the NPO should not change it's core culture.
Literally everyone else, including the NPO, realizes and understands that NPO culture is the problem.
I'm sure these are the best towel warmers and it will come in handy here.
So you either don't realize that the NPO's core culture caused a war and the subversion of countless regions, or you just don't care.
by Lenlyvit » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:13 am
Guy wrote:I am also fairly certain that TRR is the 'original' Sinker. TRR and Lazarus were certainly referred to collectively as 'the sinkers' until 2011, and were the original 'sister sinkers'. Our commonality with Lazarus was that we were both regions established nations 'fall into', which is still true. The other commonality we had was the lack of the ejection button, which was granted following the creation of Osiris and Balder.
Is that history worth throwing away in order to explain to everyone (if it wasn't already very clear from the naming regime) that TRR serves a different purpose from the other 3 Sinkers? I don't really think so. Since the new tag given to TRR isn't likely to be of any utility, the net effect is simply reducing the pool of Sinker regions to 3.
Fratt wrote:TRR is a sinker. It's called like that because - as it was the case in Lazarus, before the creation of Balder and Osiris - nations cannot be ejected from it. It's a sink. Nations that end there cannot drop any further.
So it should not be renamed. If you think the tag has been lacking cohesion since Balder and Osiris were added, then it's the resurrection regions that should be renamed, not TRR.
However I'll note that, even if Balder and Osiris were created in 2011, I had never heard anyone call TRR anything but a sinker before late 2016 or so, five years later. This makes me agree with Unibot when he says that the reasons for a change of name are ideological, and not an 'obvious' consequence of different mechanics.
by Minoa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:40 am
Fratt wrote:TRR is a sinker. It's called like that because - as it was the case in Lazarus, before the creation of Balder and Osiris - nations cannot be ejected from it. It's a sink. Nations that end there cannot drop any further.
So it should not be renamed. If you think the tag has been lacking cohesion since Balder and Osiris were added, then it's the resurrection regions that should be renamed, not TRR.
However I'll note that, even if Balder and Osiris were created in 2011, I had never heard anyone call TRR anything but a sinker before late 2016 or so, five years later. This makes me agree with Unibot when he says that the reasons for a change of name are ideological, and not an 'obvious' consequence of different mechanics.
by Lenlyvit » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:04 pm
Minoa wrote:Fratt wrote:TRR is a sinker. It's called like that because - as it was the case in Lazarus, before the creation of Balder and Osiris - nations cannot be ejected from it. It's a sink. Nations that end there cannot drop any further.
So it should not be renamed. If you think the tag has been lacking cohesion since Balder and Osiris were added, then it's the resurrection regions that should be renamed, not TRR.
However I'll note that, even if Balder and Osiris were created in 2011, I had never heard anyone call TRR anything but a sinker before late 2016 or so, five years later. This makes me agree with Unibot when he says that the reasons for a change of name are ideological, and not an 'obvious' consequence of different mechanics.
Then I will recommend the terms Sinker and Revival respectively.
by The Atlae Isles » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:21 pm
by Lenlyvit » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:24 pm
The Atlae Isles wrote:Instead of having a tag only for TRR, I propose having a tag for all GCRs (Game-Created Regions, perhaps?) and add TRR to that.
Except I do like Catcher and Reject a lot.
by Jar Wattinree » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:26 pm
Lenlyvit wrote:The Atlae Isles wrote:Instead of having a tag only for TRR, I propose having a tag for all GCRs (Game-Created Regions, perhaps?) and add TRR to that.
Except I do like Catcher and Reject a lot.
I think adding a GCR tag wouldn't be a great idea. If they did that, the mods would then need to add a UCR tag.
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