Beta 001: Banning Religion affects Religiousness

[Derpy Land]

i feel like religion is important to a lot of people and i really hate dealing with those people so i agree

[Doompeiion]

I think that it should make decisions that decrease religiousness 1.5x more powerful and positive effects 0.5x as strong

[Rommanda]

It would have an impact moving a nation towards secularism but can't be 100% secular just because the government says so, people will not stop believing because their government tells them to, take it from the psychotic dictatorship, it would increase the number of “underground” worshippers… I says it decreases religiousness about 30%, increases secularism at a reasonable proportion and certainly decreases civil right.

[Nova-land]

Banning religion should definitely decrease religiousness: indoctrination among young people would become much rarer. But it shouldn't make the nation 100% secular. There will always be some who hold on to their beliefs.

Chances are it will be reverse indoctrination.

[Galactic Furs]

Banning religion does not wipe it out, in some cases it may mean the reverse. Realities do not work out for as high of loss of religion, just as being religious would not add up to 100% with freedoms. Many nations with free religion and other freedoms have had drops of religion in reality.

For some examples take real world countries that have tried to ban even most religion - it moves underground - as those with faith seek to survive and continue.

ALSO - look at the example of Poland - where it seemed to be very religious Catholic nation, being put down by the Soviets. When they were finally free, they also seem to leave religion to some extent where they gain other freedoms. So the results could conflict based on issues...?

Western Europe is said to be the least religious area of the world by some.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-03-25/the-10-least-religious-countries-ranked-by-perception

Russia - attempt to block a faith in a minority:
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-jehovahs-witnesses-ban-religion-579045

Xi as a religion:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/11/14/jesus-wont-save-you-president-xi-jinping-will-chinese-christians-told/?utm_term=.b146e4d3595f

Tossing some links here, it is hard to find anything of a nation that does not have some religion - attempts to outlaw such are done differently than a law against religion.
http://www.heraldmalaysia.com/news/chinese-officials-pay-the-poor-to-swap-religious-images-for-portraits-of-xi/39598/2 - attempts of paying the poor to be less religious...



Least religious countries are not zero if this is correct? Not that simple - China is low, but so are some free nations.
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/least-religious-countries-in-the-world.html

China and attempts to push down religion:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/world/asia/china-religion-regulations.html

http://www.newsweek.com/china-xi-jinping-unveils-plans-nationalizing-religion-691610

[Mushet]

I'm surprised it wasn't already like this, seems to make sense to enact this.

[AquilaJordyn]

So my religiousness would drop 28.8% from this but I haven't banned religion. My nation's religion is in the name. How? Does this affect religiousness in any other way besides just an outright ban? Because if I banned religion in a nation that exists entirely to be a religious utopia and no one told me, I'm entitled workman's compensation from nationstates for exposure to high levels of irony.

[Jamilkhuze]

In this scenario, my Secularism rate would skyrocket from 8.66% to 31.35%, while my Devoutness stat would drop from 2200ish prayers/hour to less than 10. (These changes would also occur in Syfenq but they're much smaller.) Seems like this change is mediated by whether or not nations have a state religion.

[[violet]]

So my religiousness would drop 28.8% from this but I haven't banned religion.

You recently imposed a ban on New Age spirituality (the "Possession, Protection or Poppycock?" issue).

[Barbarossistan]

I also seem to take a major hit on religiousness, I certainly havent banned religion generally. Shouldnt this proposal be adjusted so you can restrict various heresies and false gods without reducing religiousness? Only a more general ban on religion would affect religiousness.

[Merconitonitopia]

So my religiousness would drop 28.8% from this but I haven't banned religion.

You recently imposed a ban on New Age spirituality (the "Possession, Protection or Poppycock?" issue).

does New Age spirituality really represent that big of the religious demographic in a nation with a strong mainstream religious presence? even if that many were interested in New Age, a smaller number would actually be deterred by a ban. such an affect would only be felt were most of the religious demographic was heavily involved in New Age, and the ban disproportionately effective. realistically this would only happen in a nation with a very small religious population and weak mainstream religious presence, wherein the few spiritual people would be drawn to such beliefs.

one would also expect such a ban to be for religious motives, as to preserve mainstream religious practice against heresy.
#510:1 -- "lost their spiritual war with the demons" ... street preacher and self-taught exorcist ... "keep those demons in"

if banning alternative religion reduced religiousness then my country shouldn't have any religious people to speak of with all the heretics i've had to deal with by the stake, especially considering theocracy policy.

[Barbarossistan]

Since this is on final call I'll say once more I think it should not reduce religiousness when you ban/restrict some spiritual/religious practice, especially when you boost mainstream religion at th same time. We should have some leeway in suppressing heresy without wrecking the religiousness rating. Nations that ban or restrict all forms of religion should indeed see sizable reductins in religiousness.

[Aclion]

Since this is on final call I'll say once more I think it should not reduce religiousness when you ban/restrict some spiritual/religious practice, especially when you boost mainstream religion at th same time. We should have some leeway in suppressing heresy without wrecking the religiousness rating. Nations that ban or restrict all forms of religion should indeed see sizable reductins in religiousness.

It makes sense that a nation that's imposing a religion would be more religious, even if the policies involve suppressing other faiths

[Merconitonitopia]

It makes sense that a nation that's imposing a religion would be more religious, even if the policies involve suppressing other faiths

basically this
come on [v]

[Alinghi Federal-Democratic Republic]

When the changes takes on effect?

[[violet]]

Soon. I've been working through a few related areas, like how to push a beta live without having stat changes incorrectly show up as due to issue choices, and being able to see afterward what difference it made.

[[violet]]

Now implemented! Thank you for participating in the first ever beta process!