Right Wing Discussion Thread IX: The Right Man's Burden

[Crysuko]

by the virtue of a full human is capable of interacting with people and adding to the world, an unwanted zygote or embryo cannot.

Many things are capable of interacting with people, but we don't accord them the rights of humans. And there are many fully-grown humans who don't add any material benefits to the world, such as the severely disabled.

they can still feel pain, and may well have people who would be happier than if they were dead. On the other hand, it may provide relief to the carrier of the embryo to know that it no longer burdens them.

[The Parkus Empire]

What is it made out of, Mr. Materialist?

Holy crap, a wild Parkus.

I'm not so wild anymore. More of a stuck up prune, really.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=261zrpl&s=9

[Hakons]

What is it made out of, Mr. Materialist?

by the virtue of a full human is capable of interacting with people and adding to the world, an unwanted zygote or embryo cannot.

Once again, however much a fetus is desired or undesired is irrelevant to human worth. What other undesirables do you want to purge?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Many things are capable of interacting with people, but we don't accord them the rights of humans. And there are many fully-grown humans who don't add any material benefits to the world, such as the severely disabled.

they can still feel pain, and may well have people who would be happier than if they were dead. On the other hand, it may provide relief to the carrier of the embryo to know that it no longer burdens them.

Whether they feel pain has nothing to do with their worth, and whether people are happier is just sentimentality. It has no business in any logical affair.

[The Parkus Empire]

What is it made out of, Mr. Materialist?

by the virtue of a full human is capable of interacting with people and adding to the world, an unwanted zygote or embryo cannot.

I'm know, I'm just busting your balls. But I still reject your presentism.

[Crysuko]

by the virtue of a full human is capable of interacting with people and adding to the world, an unwanted zygote or embryo cannot.

Once again, however much a fetus is desired or undesired is irrelevant to human worth. What other undesirables do you want to purge?

only the clusters of unthinking, unfeeling stem cells that burden those who carry them.

[Hakons]

Many things are capable of interacting with people, but we don't accord them the rights of humans. And there are many fully-grown humans who don't add any material benefits to the world, such as the severely disabled.

they can still feel pain, and may well have people who would be happier than if they were dead. On the other hand, it may provide relief to the carrier of the embryo to know that it no longer burdens them.

"Relief" is not a common emotion in women who just had an abortion.

[Hakons]

Once again, however much a fetus is desired or undesired is irrelevant to human worth. What other undesirables do you want to purge?

only the clusters of unthinking, unfeeling stem cells that burden those who carry them.

You sure have come a long way from unthinking, unfeeling stem cells. It's a shame your mother was so burdened to carry you.

Edit: This is satire. I'm very much glad you were born.

[Crysuko]

they can still feel pain, and may well have people who would be happier than if they were dead. On the other hand, it may provide relief to the carrier of the embryo to know that it no longer burdens them.

"Relief" is not a common emotion in women who just had an abortion.

because of people piling on the sob stories and fake morality, combined with how invasive the procedure is, lifestyle factors and so on then it's no wonder many are stressed by it. but don't tell me that if a woman's life is threatened by a pregnancy, a small part of her feels releived to have it gone and know that her own life is saved. And perhaps I should clarify, not all those in the womb are a burden, only those which are either dangerous to carry, or for whatever reason, are unwanted.

[Hakons]

"Relief" is not a common emotion in women who just had an abortion.

because of people piling on the sob stories and fake morality, combined with how invasive the procedure is, lifestyle factors and so on then it's no wonder many are stressed by it. but don't tell me that if a woman's life is threatened by a pregnancy, a small part of her feels releived to have it gone and know that her own life is saved.

Almost no pro-lifers are for banning abortions that are meant to save a life. Unfortunately, most abortions are not life preserving operations. They are most often quiet the opposite.

"Fake morality"

Further evidence that consistent morality needs religious underpinnings.

For the third time, however undesirable a human is is not a justification for their annihilation.

[Crysuko]

because of people piling on the sob stories and fake morality, combined with how invasive the procedure is, lifestyle factors and so on then it's no wonder many are stressed by it. but don't tell me that if a woman's life is threatened by a pregnancy, a small part of her feels releived to have it gone and know that her own life is saved.

Almost no pro-lifers are for banning abortions that are meant to save a life. Unfortunately, most abortions are not life preserving operations. They are most often quiet the opposite.

Then consider the quality of life factor, if a woman cannot afford to have a child and cannot take worthwhile care of them, then is a life born into destitution from day one worth living? also, adoption isn;t any better due to how overcrowded the system is. no disrespect to those with adoptive parents, but there are many who grow up an empty shell due to having no true mother or father figure to guide them.

[Salus Maior]

"Relief" is not a common emotion in women who just had an abortion.

because of people piling on the sob stories and fake morality, combined with how invasive the procedure is, lifestyle factors and so on then it's no wonder many are stressed by it. but don't tell me that if a woman's life is threatened by a pregnancy, a small part of her feels releived to have it gone and know that her own life is saved. And perhaps I should clarify, not all those in the womb are a burden, only those which are either dangerous to carry, or for whatever reason, are unwanted.

Most pro-life advocates and legislation does allow abortion if the woman's life is at risk (in fact, I believe even the Catholic Church concedes that sort of thing is allowable, it's a life for a life).

Unwanted, however, is a bullshit way to determine human worth.

[Hakons]

Almost no pro-lifers are for banning abortions that are meant to save a life. Unfortunately, most abortions are not life preserving operations. They are most often quiet the opposite.

Then consider the quality of life factor, if a woman cannot afford to have a child and cannot take worthwhile care of them, then is a life born into destitution from day one worth living? also, adoption isn;t any better due to how overcrowded the system is. no disrespect to those with adoptive parents, but there are many who grow up an empty shell due to having no true mother or father figure to guide them.

There are many people who experience "low" quality of life. Unlike you, I recognize that rounding up the poor and throwing them into a gas chamber is not a solution to poverty. Yes, I'm being hyperbolic, but killing fetuses based on their perceived economic prosperity is essentially killing them because they might be poor.

[Salus Maior]

1.Then consider the quality of life factor, if a woman cannot afford to have a child and cannot take worthwhile care of them, then is a life born into destitution from day one worth living?

2.also, adoption isn;t any better due to how overcrowded the system is. no disrespect to those with adoptive parents, but there are many who grow up an empty shell due to having no true mother or father figure to guide them.

1.I don't think you're in any position to decide whether someone's life is worth living. And even if one is born into destitution does not mean they will stay there, or will otherwise not find joy in life and believe their own life is worth living.

2. I basically haven't had a father since my early teens and I still believe my life is worth living and I find joy in it. Would I prefer that I did have a good father? Yes, of course. Do I have issues stemming from my father's absence? Yes. But again you're spouting bullshit.

[Crysuko]

Then consider the quality of life factor, if a woman cannot afford to have a child and cannot take worthwhile care of them, then is a life born into destitution from day one worth living? also, adoption isn;t any better due to how overcrowded the system is. no disrespect to those with adoptive parents, but there are many who grow up an empty shell due to having no true mother or father figure to guide them.

There are many people who experience "low" quality of life. Unlike you, I recognize that rounding up the poor and throwing them into a gas chamber is not a solution to poverty. Yes, I'm being hyperbolic, but killing fetuses based on their perceived economic prosperity is essentially killing them because they might be poor.

and if that perception is right? I tend to take the utilitarian approach to things on a large scale. That is, try and reduce the amount of people suffering in the world. That does not mean kill the poor, but instead allow a woman to make the choice to not add to it. I am not saying kill all fetuses of poor women, but give them the option at least to end it if they deem it justifiable themselves.

[Hakons]

There are many people who experience "low" quality of life. Unlike you, I recognize that rounding up the poor and throwing them into a gas chamber is not a solution to poverty. Yes, I'm being hyperbolic, but killing fetuses based on their perceived economic prosperity is essentially killing them because they might be poor.

and if that perception is right? I tend to take the utilitarian approach to things on a large scale. That is, try and reduce the amount of people suffering in the world. That does not mean kill the poor, but instead allow a woman to make the choice to not add to it. I am not saying kill all fetuses of poor women, but give them the option at least to end it if they deem it justifiable themselves.

Your "reduce the amount of people suffering in the world" comes down to terminating the future poor and sterilizing the impoverished. How noble and just.

[United Muscovite Nations]

There are many people who experience "low" quality of life. Unlike you, I recognize that rounding up the poor and throwing them into a gas chamber is not a solution to poverty. Yes, I'm being hyperbolic, but killing fetuses based on their perceived economic prosperity is essentially killing them because they might be poor.

and if that perception is right? I tend to take the utilitarian approach to things on a large scale. That is, try and reduce the amount of people suffering in the world. That does not mean kill the poor, but instead allow a woman to make the choice to not add to it. I am not saying kill all fetuses of poor women, but give them the option at least to end it if they deem it justifiable themselves.

Why not instead try to make it so there aren't such poor people?

[The Parkus Empire]

This debate is really a waste of time because each position rests on different prior postulates.

[Crysuko]

and if that perception is right? I tend to take the utilitarian approach to things on a large scale. That is, try and reduce the amount of people suffering in the world. That does not mean kill the poor, but instead allow a woman to make the choice to not add to it. I am not saying kill all fetuses of poor women, but give them the option at least to end it if they deem it justifiable themselves.

Your "reduce the amount of people suffering in the world" comes down to terminating the future poor and sterilizing the impoverished. How noble and just.

don't blow this out of proportion. I am saying to provide them the option, and have them make the choice themselves. and where did steralising come from? I never said that.

[United Muscovite Nations]

On a completely unrelated topic, I just want to remind everyone that Pinochet liked Mao and even went to Mao's tomb to pay his respects.

History, and Pinochet’s fascination with it, featured heavily in our talks. He expressed his admiration for Napoleon and for the Romans, and we also discussed Fidel Castro, whom he seemed to respect for standing up for his beliefs, and for being a “nationalist.” When it came to Mao, too, he seemed curiously uncritical. He described a visit to Mao’s tomb, and his voice fell into a dramatic hush: “They took me to a large temple, immense, how can I tell you? Like the American Congress building. Where, every day, thousands of people take flowers to Mao. I went to that temple, but Mao isn’t there. Mao is in a second temple further on, where all the walls are of black marble. In the middle is Mao’s catafalque. What a monument!—of silence. Dark . . . half-light, and the catafalque.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1998 ... dictator-2

[The Parkus Empire]

On a completely unrelated topic, I just want to remind everyone that Pinochet liked Mao and even went to Mao's tomb to pay his respects.

History, and Pinochet’s fascination with it, featured heavily in our talks. He expressed his admiration for Napoleon and for the Romans, and we also discussed Fidel Castro, whom he seemed to respect for standing up for his beliefs, and for being a “nationalist.” When it came to Mao, too, he seemed curiously uncritical. He described a visit to Mao’s tomb, and his voice fell into a dramatic hush: “They took me to a large temple, immense, how can I tell you? Like the American Congress building. Where, every day, thousands of people take flowers to Mao. I went to that temple, but Mao isn’t there. Mao is in a second temple further on, where all the walls are of black marble. In the middle is Mao’s catafalque. What a monument!—of silence. Dark . . . half-light, and the catafalque.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1998 ... dictator-2

I don't know, that seems more like when you visit the pharaohs.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

and if that perception is right? I tend to take the utilitarian approach to things on a large scale. That is, try and reduce the amount of people suffering in the world. That does not mean kill the poor, but instead allow a woman to make the choice to not add to it. I am not saying kill all fetuses of poor women, but give them the option at least to end it if they deem it justifiable themselves.

Your "reduce the amount of people suffering in the world" comes down to terminating the future poor and sterilizing the impoverished. How noble and just.

He's right.

[Albrenia]

Just a quick question, if I may.

If the mind is non-material, why can memory, intelligence, personality, emotion and perception all be drastically effected by material things done to the brain?

[Khornatenreich]

>Not using robots and genetically grown super soldiers

The future is now old man

Played alot of Stellaris I see.

Nice work reporting me, so very brave of you.

[The Parkus Empire]

Just a quick question, if I may.

If the mind is non-material, why can memory, intelligence, personality, emotion and perception all be drastically effected by material things done to the brain?

I don't really hold the position that the mind is immaterial (as Hegel does), but rather that subjectivity is.