Richard Spencer and Modern Nazism: #NotMyAmerica

[Pilarcraft]

And that's the entire depth of your equivalence?

I'd like to add that their [Anarchist] ideology is a bunch of bullsh*t. The major difference between Nazis and Anarchists is that a Nazi state is a possible hypothetical that's happened before. An anarchist state... pfff

I think the correct term would be Anarchist Society.

[Liriena]

And that's the entire depth of your equivalence?

I'd like to add that their [Anarchist] ideology is a bunch of bullsh*t. The major difference between Nazis and Anarchists is that a Nazi state is a possible hypothetical that's happened before. An anarchist state... pfff

And that makes Nazis morally better or equivalent?

Has anybody here actually forgotten the dimension of what Nazism has done to humanity? And actually contrasted that with anarchism?

[Washington Resistance Army]

The largest neo-Nazi group in the country has ~500 members. The Klan has a few thousand members split amongst more than a hundred groups and they fight each other more than anyone else. Other fascist and white supremacist groups aren't doing much better. We're doing a perfectly fine job of discrediting them.

And yet there they are, killing people on your streets and helping elect people like them to office. And that's without mentioning the pretty telling fact that, after Charlottesville, it appears white supremacists who committed crimes only started getting arrested when people like Shaun King made a fuss about it and did all the work of identifying them one by one. Otherwise law enforcement simply stood there and looked pretty (or arrested the opponents of white supremacists). Also: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/

Yes, we've had fringe groups on both the left and the right killing people every now and again for a hundred years. I'm still not down with removing their right to free speech, sorry. We just have different views on the topic.

[Shikihara]

Truly? Someone who advocates for ethnic cleansing and totalitarianism is just as terrible as a left-wing libertarian in your eyes?

Come on, it's not as though left-wing libertarians have never argued for ethnic cleansing, or created de facto totalitarian states (e.g. Makhno's Ukraine and Revolutionary Catalonia). Or that modern anarchists filled with resentment against perceived wrongs done to them by the bourgeoisie and society would not be just as violent as modern Neo Nazis.

[Socialista Mozambique]

And that makes Nazis morally better or equivalent?

Has anybody here actually forgotten the dimension of what Nazism has done to humanity? And actually contrasted that with anarchism?

You can't compare the two, because Anarchism has largely failed in achieving any of their goals, whereas Nazism succeeded to a considerable degree.

The only real comparison you can make with the two is that they're both ideologies, both with followings and are both a bunch of crap.

[Liriena]

Truly? Someone who advocates for ethnic cleansing and totalitarianism is just as terrible as a left-wing libertarian in your eyes?

Come on, it's not as though left-wing libertarians have never argued for ethnic cleansing, or created de facto totalitarian states (e.g. Makhno's Ukraine and Revolutionary Catalonia). Or that modern anarchists filled with resentment against perceived wrongs done to them by the bourgeoisie and society would not be just as violent as modern Neo Nazis.

The Ukrainian and Catalán anarchists are the ones marching the United States? Who knew!

Also... I'm pretty sure the modern anarchists, at least, wouldn't try to exterminate or deport all non-white people (and Jews and LGBT people, probably) from the Western hemisphere in the name of creating authoritarian white ethno-states.

[Thermodolia]

Well I guess those anti Trump rallies that turned into riots because Antifa showed up didn't happen

Name the rallies and be specific.

It was some rally I can't remember the name but it was just a few days after Trump was inaugurated

Yes.

Truly? Someone who advocates for ethnic cleansing and totalitarianism is just as terrible as a left-wing libertarian in your eyes?

I thought we where talking about Antifa? When did the goal posts move?

It's Antifa I don't like not left-libertarians which I can bet you quite a lot that the majority of left libertarians would distance themselves from being associated with Antifa.

Yes.

Why? How are they equivalent?

They are two violent extremist groups that have no place in American culture and need to be put down with force if necessary.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

It's not virtue signaling though, it's consistency.

And what value does being consistent with an absolutist ideal of free speech that borders on anomie have... beyond signalling to others that you are "consistent"? And what good is being consistent with that ideal, in practical terms, as Nazis go around preaching ethnic cleansing (and some of them actually give it a shot)?

It means you're not a hypocrite.

Congratulations: You did not reconsider the validity and practicality of an ideal that's over two centuries old while people who don't care about it roamed about openly planning to justify and commit genocides.

It's as valid as it was two hundred years ago.

Presenting the truth is exactly what happens during debate.

It happens during debates with people who are arguing in good faith. Not the case with Nazis and their sort.

And that's why Nazis are invalidated in every debate. They get called on their nonsense any time they try. They're as crazy as the Nazis from the thirties, and with a thousandth of the violence.

[Pope Joan]

As far as I can tell so far, the violence has not originated with the neo nazis, but with those who oppose them and who believe that all violence is justified because their cause is just.

[Telconi]

And yet there they are, killing people on your streets and helping elect people like them to office. And that's without mentioning the pretty telling fact that, after Charlottesville, it appears white supremacists who committed crimes only started getting arrested when people like Shaun King made a fuss about it and did all the work of identifying them one by one. Otherwise law enforcement simply stood there and looked pretty (or arrested the opponents of white supremacists). Also: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/

Yes, we've had fringe groups on both the left and the right killing people every now and again for a hundred years. I'm still not down with removing their right to free speech, sorry. We just have different views on the topic.

I think the disconnect comes from the lack of intrinsic value placed upon the concept of free speech from Liriena. And the relatively high intrinsic value you or I would place on it.

Speech doesn't need to be good, agreeable, or even remotely acceptable to be afforded freedom. It simply must be.

[Aellex]

And that makes Nazis morally better or equivalent?

Has anybody here actually forgotten the dimension of what Nazism has done to humanity? And actually contrasted that with anarchism?

And here we return to the sempiternal debate of what's worst between killing a couple million out of deliberate malevolence or multiple time that out of sheer incompetence?
I would say that both are just as fucking bad, personally but hey, that's just me.

[Chestaan]

Sure, Nazis have the right to free-speech but that doesn't mean they have the right to any platform they like and it certainly doesn't mean that people aren't allowed to protest against them. I always find it hilariously hypocritical when someone demonises protestors against the far-right for being anti-free speech when they themselves are the ones against the protestors right to free-speech.

[Chestaan]

As far as I can tell so far, the violence has not originated with the neo nazis, but with those who oppose them and who believe that all violence is justified because their cause is just.

As far as I can tell the terrorist who ran down Heather Heyer didn't do it out of self-defence.

[Anarcho capitalist utopia]

Well I guess those anti Trump rallies that turned into riots because Antifa showed up didn't happen

Name the rallies and be specific.

Yes.

Truly? Someone who advocates for ethnic cleansing and totalitarianism is just as terrible as a left-wing libertarian in your eyes?

>Libertarian
>Left

Pick one.

Yes.

Why? How are they equivalent?

They're not. Anti-nazis are more violent than any fascist ever will be.

[Community Values]

Name the rallies and be specific.


Truly? Someone who advocates for ethnic cleansing and totalitarianism is just as terrible as a left-wing libertarian in your eyes?

>Libertarian
>Left

Pick one.

>capitalist
>anarchist
pick one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

Why? How are they equivalent?

They're not. Anti-nazis are more violent than any fascist ever will be.

objectively wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[Thermodolia]

Name the rallies and be specific.


Truly? Someone who advocates for ethnic cleansing and totalitarianism is just as terrible as a left-wing libertarian in your eyes?

>Libertarian
>Left

Pick one.

Left Libertarians are a real thing. Antifa is not libertarian though

Why? How are they equivalent?

They're not. Anti-nazis are more violent than any fascist ever will be.

Ya no. Nazis have been pretty damn violent

[The Empire of Pretantia]

They're not. Anti-nazis are more violent than any fascist ever will be.

Meanwhile in Nazi Germany...

[Anarcho capitalist utopia]

>Libertarian
>Left

Pick one.

Left Libertarians are a real thing. Antifa is not libertarian though.

Antifa is communist, which means they are authoritarian. One cannot be left wing and also believe in freedom of the individual, or be left wing and also believe in personal responsibility. It's literally an oxymoron.

They're not. Anti-nazis are more violent than any fascist ever will be.

Ya no. Nazis have been pretty damn violent

Only because they have to defend themselves from Antifa thugs paid for by George Soros.

[Pilarcraft]

Left Libertarians are a real thing. Antifa is not libertarian though.

Antifa is communist, which means they are authoritarian. One cannot be left wing and also believe in freedom of the individual, or be left wing and also believe in personal responsibility. It's literally an oxymoron.

Ya no. Nazis have been pretty damn violent

Only because they have to defend themselves from Antifa thugs paid for by George Soros.

almost every single anarchist theorist to ever write something about anarchism goes against your argument. almost every single anarchist theorist can prove you're wrong. both anarchism and libertarianism are historically and inherently left-wing lmao. the right wing ideologies are, at least most of them, less than a hundred years old. Anarchism itself is older than Communism.
also, seriously? George Soros?

[Catochristoferson]

If we're talking about a pacifist anarchist, then not at all. But if we're talking about the other kind, then I could see where Thermo is coming from.

Anarchists of any type are a threat to the security of the state. Anarchists wish to overthrow the current government

Good. The current government is shit.

and social order

You know nothing about Anarchism, stop trying to pretend you do. Anarchists are not opposed to order, they are opposed to hierarchy.

[Ostroeuropa]

While I'm all for diversity of opinions in universities, really have no idea what a Neo Nazi populist is supposed to contribute to an academic setting, besides maybe giving protesters something to do. Glad the governor is preparing in advance for the storm.

Barely anyone criticizes progressives due to fear of demonization and witch hunts.
Neo-nazis and the alt-right are already demonized and witch hunted, and as a consequence, are one of the only factions academically criticizing progressivism, and doing so with a level of validity.
The legitimization of neo-nazi discourse, at least in part, is one of the reasons the progressive movement is a danger to society. By silencing their moderate critics, they have enabled extremists, and not only that, enabled those extremists to try and tie criticism of feminism and multiculturalism and its failures to their core ideology to make it seem a more coherent and accurate view of the world than it actually is.

(Note the rising KKK membership, rising hate crime levels, etc.)

Ideally, both camps of racists and sexists would be cast out. But so long as one remains, they feed off eachother and polarize society.

[Catochristoferson]

Left Libertarians are a real thing. Antifa is not libertarian though.

Antifa is communist, which means they are authoritarian. One cannot be left wing and also believe in freedom of the individual, or be left wing and also believe in personal responsibility. It's literally an oxymoron.

Individualist Anarchism and Egoism are left wing. Try again.

And what does your comment about "personal responsibility" even mean? Are you implying communists are lazy?

Ya no. Nazis have been pretty damn violent

Only because they have to defend themselves from Antifa thugs paid for by George Soros.

Running a counter protester over with a truck is not self defense, no matter how you slice it.

[Torrocca]

Left Libertarians are a real thing. Antifa is not libertarian though.

Antifa is communist, which means they are authoritarian. One cannot be left wing and also believe in freedom of the individual, or be left wing and also believe in personal responsibility. It's literally an oxymoron.

Ya no. Nazis have been pretty damn violent

Only because they have to defend themselves from Antifa thugs paid for by George Soros.

The horseshoe's sitting on its side today.

Also >unironically defending people who genocided millions

[Pilarcraft]

Antifa is communist, which means they are authoritarian. One cannot be left wing and also believe in freedom of the individual, or be left wing and also believe in personal responsibility. It's literally an oxymoron.

Individualist Anarchism and Egoism are left wing. Try again.

And what does your comment about "personal responsibility" even mean? Are you implying communists are lazy?

Only because they have to defend themselves from Antifa thugs paid for by George Soros.

Running a counter protester over with a truck is not self defense, no matter how you slice it.

Right-wing libertarianism aside, the only Anarchist theory that isn't completely or at least partially left wing would be Anarcho Primitivism. [no. Ancap is not Anarchism. get over it lmao]

[Ostroeuropa]

Individualist Anarchism and Egoism are left wing. Try again.

And what does your comment about "personal responsibility" even mean? Are you implying communists are lazy?


Running a counter protester over with a truck is not self defense, no matter how you slice it.

Right-wing libertarianism aside, the only Anarchist theory that isn't completely or at least partially left wing would be Anarcho Primitivism. [no. Ancap is not Anarchism. get over it lmao]

Anarcho nationalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism

(No leaders, no state, no rules, only the nation, only the volk.)

Basically "Everything except racism should be dropped."