Are upcoming sex robots going to normalize male aggression?

[Chestaan]

I thought that extreme feminists believe that The Patriarchy already has normalized male aggression?

[Bakery Hill]

I thought that extreme feminists believe that The Patriarchy already has normalized male aggression?

You think it hasn't? I thought it's social existence was pretty obvious, just that we were arguing over whether it was a good thing or not.

[Chestaan]

I thought that extreme feminists believe that The Patriarchy already has normalized male aggression?

You think it hasn't? I thought it's social existence was pretty obvious, just that we were arguing over whether it was a good thing or not.

Aggression in general? Sure, it's been normalised. Domestic violence? No, not at all. If a man attacks a woman he is considered a social pariah, the lowest form of man. Men are taught from birth to never under any circumstances hit a woman, not even in self-defence. And let's not forget that the vast majority of crimes have mostly male victims.

[Galloism]

You think it hasn't? I thought it's social existence was pretty obvious, just that we were arguing over whether it was a good thing or not.

Aggression in general? Sure, it's been normalised. Domestic violence? No, not at all. If a man attacks a woman he is considered a social pariah, the lowest form of man. Men are taught from birth to never under any circumstances hit a woman, not even in self-defence. And let's not forget that the vast majority of crimes have mostly male victims.

And, it's worth noting, women who commit domestic violence are not subject to such pariah treatment. Despite the fact they commit it at similar rates.

[Chestaan]

Aggression in general? Sure, it's been normalised. Domestic violence? No, not at all. If a man attacks a woman he is considered a social pariah, the lowest form of man. Men are taught from birth to never under any circumstances hit a woman, not even in self-defence. And let's not forget that the vast majority of crimes have mostly male victims.

And, it's worth noting, women who commit domestic violence are not subject to such pariah treatment. Despite the fact they commit it at similar rates.

Absolutely. In most cases it seems that state institutions as well as society as a whole will bend over backwards to excuse their behaviour. Although that is the same, to an extent, for most crimes when the perpetrator is a woman.

[Bakery Hill]

You think it hasn't? I thought it's social existence was pretty obvious, just that we were arguing over whether it was a good thing or not.

Aggression in general? Sure, it's been normalised. Domestic violence? No, not at all. If a man attacks a woman he is considered a social pariah, the lowest form of man. Men are taught from birth to never under any circumstances hit a woman, not even in self-defence. And let's not forget that the vast majority of crimes have mostly male victims.

While I agree that domestic violence has become broadly socially unacceptable in the last few decades. The idea that it's now a thing women largely do to men is a bit absurd. We must move in different circles.

[Chestaan]

Aggression in general? Sure, it's been normalised. Domestic violence? No, not at all. If a man attacks a woman he is considered a social pariah, the lowest form of man. Men are taught from birth to never under any circumstances hit a woman, not even in self-defence. And let's not forget that the vast majority of crimes have mostly male victims.

While I agree that domestic violence has become broadly socially unacceptable in the last few decades. The idea that it's now a thing women largely do to men is a bit absurd. We must move in different circles.

Oh no, I'm not saying that it is mostly done by men to women, I mean violent crimes in general are usually committed against men. DV is, from what I have seen in the last while, about 50-50, and is often mutual.

EDIT: But a large part of the problem is that while women are giving the supports they need when they are subject to DV, men are not. There are few if any men's shelters, and intervention programs in the US operate under the assumption that the man is always at fault.

[Bakery Hill]

While I agree that domestic violence has become broadly socially unacceptable in the last few decades. The idea that it's now a thing women largely do to men is a bit absurd. We must move in different circles.

Oh no, I'm not saying that it is mostly done by men to women, I mean violent crimes in general are usually committed against men. DV is, from what I have seen in the last while, about 50-50, and is often mutual.

EDIT: But a large part of the problem is that while women are giving the supports they need when they are subject to DV, men are not. There are few if any men's shelters, and intervention programs in the US operate under the assumption that the man is always at fault.

Depends how you define violence, if you do it broadly it might just be that in some countries it's 50-50. But when looking at serious violence it dramatically skews against women. I'm only familiar with Australian statistics and situations. Maybe your countries are bizarrely different, but I doubt it.

[Chestaan]

Oh no, I'm not saying that it is mostly done by men to women, I mean violent crimes in general are usually committed against men. DV is, from what I have seen in the last while, about 50-50, and is often mutual.

EDIT: But a large part of the problem is that while women are giving the supports they need when they are subject to DV, men are not. There are few if any men's shelters, and intervention programs in the US operate under the assumption that the man is always at fault.

Depends how you define violence, if you do it broadly it might just be that in some countries it's 50-50. But when looking at serious violence it dramatically skews against women. I'm only familiar with Australian statistics and situations. Maybe your countries are bizarrely different, but I doubt it.

Does it? According to this homicide is mostly carried out against men, including in Australia;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_ ... _by_gender

I'm looking for stats on other crimes and will post when I get them.

EDIT: Actually could you post the stats for Australia if you have time, I'd like to have a quick look at them.

[Bakery Hill]

Depends how you define violence, if you do it broadly it might just be that in some countries it's 50-50. But when looking at serious violence it dramatically skews against women. I'm only familiar with Australian statistics and situations. Maybe your countries are bizarrely different, but I doubt it.

Does it? According to this homicide is mostly carried out against men, including in Australia;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_ ... _by_gender

I'm looking for stats on other crimes and will post when I get them.

EDIT: Actually could you post the stats for Australia if you have time, I'd like to have a quick look at them.

Okay I feel we keep bouncing back and forth on what we're talking about. Yes, serious general violence including homicide is overwhelmingly carried out by men and a majority of it is directed towards men. I was meaning to talk about domestic violence in the above post. Forgive me it's 2am here. But the point stills stands. With regards to DV or rather Intimate Partner Violence the idea that the balance is equal is bizarre and only possible by willfully misinterpreting statistics and the society around you.

[Galloism]

Oh no, I'm not saying that it is mostly done by men to women, I mean violent crimes in general are usually committed against men. DV is, from what I have seen in the last while, about 50-50, and is often mutual.

EDIT: But a large part of the problem is that while women are giving the supports they need when they are subject to DV, men are not. There are few if any men's shelters, and intervention programs in the US operate under the assumption that the man is always at fault.

Depends how you define violence, if you do it broadly it might just be that in some countries it's 50-50. But when looking at serious violence it dramatically skews against women. I'm only familiar with Australian statistics and situations. Maybe your countries are bizarrely different, but I doubt it.

Australia is probably not counting it right. If you're relying on police statistics, you're probably seeing the bias instead of the fact. This is because men who are victims of DV are more likely to be arrested and charged than their female perpetrators.

Using US survey data, 2,752,000 women and 2,374,000 men were victims of severe physical violence in the last year.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrht ... ss6308a1_e

There's a small discrepancy there, but not the one people talk about.

[Bakery Hill]

Depends how you define violence, if you do it broadly it might just be that in some countries it's 50-50. But when looking at serious violence it dramatically skews against women. I'm only familiar with Australian statistics and situations. Maybe your countries are bizarrely different, but I doubt it.

Australia is probably not counting it right. If you're relying on police statistics, you're probably seeing the bias instead of the fact. This is because men who are victims of DV are more likely to be arrested and charged than their female perpetrators.

Using US survey data, 2,752,000 women and 2,374,000 men were victims of severe physical violence in the last year.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrht ... ss6308a1_e

There's a small discrepancy there, but not the one people talk about.

Look I'm just going to take from the wiki, because they lay it out nice and simple.

"Men and women are both victimized, but violence against women has a higher prevalence rate. Although men and women commit equivalent rates of unreported minor violence via situational altercation, more severe perpetration and domestic battery is committed by men. This is based on newer CTS methodology as opposed to the older version that didn't contextualize violence since 1975. A 2008 review published in journal of Violence and Victims found that despite less serious altercation or violence was equal among both genders, more serious and violent abuse was perpetrated by men. It was also found that women's physical violence was more likely motivated by self-defense or fear while men's was motivated by control."

"A 2011 systematic review from the journal of Trauma Violence Abuse also found that the common motives for female on male domestic violence were anger, a need for attention, or as a response to their partner's own violence. Another 2011 review published in the journal of Aggression and Violent behavior found differences in the methods of abuse employed by men and women, suggesting that men were more likely to "beat up, choke or strangle" their partners, while women were more likely to "throw something at their partner, slap, kick, bite, punch, or hit with an object"."

"Researchers have also found different outcomes in men and women in response to intimate partner violence.A 2012 review from the journal Psychology of Violence found that women suffered over-proportionate number of injuries, fear, and posttraumatic stress as a result of partner violence. The review also found that 70% of female victims in their in one study felt frightened from violence perpetrated by their partners but 85% of male victims expressed "no fear" in response to them. The review also found that IPV correlated with relationship satistifaction for women but it did not do so for men."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimate_ ... _asymmetry
http://jech.bmj.com/content/64/10/849
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/s ... 3/art00003
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177 ... 8010379003
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... via%3Dihub
http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=1 ... 2Fa0026296

I agree that some feminists understate the level to which reactionary structures are already being dismantled by society. A lot of those same types ignore ignore a woman's own capacity to commit violent acts, or how reactionary structures and attitudes can harm as well as benefit men. But this MRA nonsense that implies that the problem is socially equally or worse still implies, that the shoe's now coming on to the other foot is pretty sus. You've got to either spend your whole life in liberal respectable middle class circles and/or the internet to believe this shit. To be quite honest lot of the time it seems to come down to a cynical and deliberate misunderstanding of the issues for political ends.

[Chestaan]

Does it? According to this homicide is mostly carried out against men, including in Australia;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_ ... _by_gender

I'm looking for stats on other crimes and will post when I get them.

EDIT: Actually could you post the stats for Australia if you have time, I'd like to have a quick look at them.

Okay I feel we keep bouncing back and forth on what we're talking about. Yes, serious general violence including homicide is overwhelmingly carried out by men and a majority of it is directed towards men. I was meaning to talk about domestic violence in the above post. Forgive me it's 2am here. But the point stills stands. With regards to DV or rather Intimate Partner Violence the idea that the balance is equal is bizarre and only possible by willfully misinterpreting statistics and the society around you.

Ah ok, sorry I thought we were talking about crime in general.

DV is a strange one and it is very tough to calculate accurately, due to victims understandably being silent in many cases. However, a lot of the reports I have seen recently have indicated figures approaching gender parity in victimisation.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-num ... 63030.html

A CDC report showing that men make up 40%+ of DV victims.

Another issue is that men are usually more reluctant to report on their partners.

[Galloism]

Australia is probably not counting it right. If you're relying on police statistics, you're probably seeing the bias instead of the fact. This is because men who are victims of DV are more likely to be arrested and charged than their female perpetrators.

Using US survey data, 2,752,000 women and 2,374,000 men were victims of severe physical violence in the last year.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrht ... ss6308a1_e

There's a small discrepancy there, but not the one people talk about.

Look I'm just going to take from the wiki, because they lay it out nice and simple.

"Men and women are both victimized, but violence against women has a higher prevalence rate. Although men and women commit equivalent rates of unreported minor violence via situational altercation, more severe perpetration and domestic battery is committed by men. This is based on newer CTS methodology as opposed to the older version that didn't contextualize violence since 1975. A 2008 review published in journal of Violence and Victims found that despite less serious altercation or violence was equal among both genders, more serious and violent abuse was perpetrated by men. It was also found that women's physical violence was more likely motivated by self-defense or fear while men's was motivated by control."

"A 2011 systematic review from the journal of Trauma Violence Abuse also found that the common motives for female on male domestic violence were anger, a need for attention, or as a response to their partner's own violence. Another 2011 review published in the journal of Aggression and Violent behavior found differences in the methods of abuse employed by men and women, suggesting that men were more likely to "beat up, choke or strangle" their partners, while women were more likely to "throw something at their partner, slap, kick, bite, punch, or hit with an object"."

"Researchers have also found different outcomes in men and women in response to intimate partner violence.A 2012 review from the journal Psychology of Violence found that women suffered over-proportionate number of injuries, fear, and posttraumatic stress as a result of partner violence. The review also found that 70% of female victims in their in one study felt frightened from violence perpetrated by their partners but 85% of male victims expressed "no fear" in response to them. The review also found that IPV correlated with relationship satistifaction for women but it did not do so for men."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimate_ ... _asymmetry
http://jech.bmj.com/content/64/10/849
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/s ... 3/art00003
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177 ... 8010379003
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... via%3Dihub
http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=1 ... 2Fa0026296

I agree that some feminists understate the level to which reactionary structures are already being dismantled by society. A lot of those same types ignore ignore a woman's own capacity to commit violent acts, or how reactionary structures and attitudes can harm as well as benefit men. But this MRA nonsense that implies that the problem is socially equally or worse still implies, that the shoe's now coming on to the other foot is pretty sus. You've got to either spend your whole life in liberal respectable middle class circles and/or the internet to believe this shit. To be quite honest lot of the time it seems to come down to a cynical and deliberate misunderstanding of the issues for political ends.

Give me a bit to dig into your sources.

[Bakery Hill]

Okay I feel we keep bouncing back and forth on what we're talking about. Yes, serious general violence including homicide is overwhelmingly carried out by men and a majority of it is directed towards men. I was meaning to talk about domestic violence in the above post. Forgive me it's 2am here. But the point stills stands. With regards to DV or rather Intimate Partner Violence the idea that the balance is equal is bizarre and only possible by willfully misinterpreting statistics and the society around you.

Ah ok, sorry I thought we were talking about crime in general.

DV is a strange one and it is very tough to calculate accurately, due to victims understandably being silent in many cases. However, a lot of the reports I have seen recently have indicated figures approaching gender parity in victimisation.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-num ... 63030.html

A CDC report showing that men make up 40%+ of DV victims.

Another issue is that men are usually more reluctant to report on their partners.

I addressed most of this stuff in my post to Galloism.

[Galloism]

Ah ok, sorry I thought we were talking about crime in general.

DV is a strange one and it is very tough to calculate accurately, due to victims understandably being silent in many cases. However, a lot of the reports I have seen recently have indicated figures approaching gender parity in victimisation.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-num ... 63030.html

A CDC report showing that men make up 40%+ of DV victims.

Another issue is that men are usually more reluctant to report on their partners.

I addressed most of this stuff in my post to Galloism.

Well, the first one asserts (citing Johnson 1995) that women are less likely to be controlling in a relationship - attempting to make their partner bend to their will. This is accepted as is. However, the Johnson study had serious methodological flaws - namely that only women in shelters and men in prison were interviewed in order to determine who was "controlling".

Well, with that kind of a sample set, you're likely to get some very seriously wrong answers.

Here's one that used a sample of the public instead, using roughly the same methodology.

A central prediction from the male control theory was
that men should seek to control their partners’ behavior to
a greater extent than women would. Using a scale that
involves control over various aspects of a partner’s life
(Graham‐Kevan & Archer, 2003a, 2003b, 2005), we
found the opposite for self‐reports (i.e., more controlling
behavior by women than by men) and no difference for
victim‐reports. The lack of a sex difference is consistent
with a meta‐analysis of 17 studies (including the present
one) that found no overall sex differences in controlling
behavior (Archer, 2013, Table 11). A further prediction
from the male control theory was that controlling
behavior would be linked to IPV for men but not for
women. Our findings did not support this, since we found
that control and IPV were strongly correlated in both
sexes, for both self‐ and victim‐ reports. In the regression
analysis for IPV perpetration, controlling behavior was a
significant predictor for both sexes, and the beta
coefficients showed no sex difference. Again this is
consistent with other evidence (Graham‐Kevan &
Archer, 2008, 2009; Hill & Yasin, 2011; Próspero,
Dwumah, & Ofori‐Dua, 2009) using the same measure of
controlling behavior.

I'm still looking into the rest. Johnson 1995 creeps into a lot of these studies, and has done a lot to protect female domestic abusers thanks to shoddy methodology.

[Galloism]

For the second source, I could turn a lot of it around.

Studies have consistently found that the majority of domestically violent women also have experienced violence from their male partners. Two studies of ethnically diverse, low-income community women found a high prevalence of victimization among women who used violence. In Temple et al.’s (2005) study of Black, Mexican American, and White women, 86% of those who used violence were also victims; in Swan et al.’s (2005) study of Black, Latina, and White women, this figure was 92%. Similar results have been found with college women (Cercone et al., 2005; Orcutt, Garcia, & Pickett, 2005). Among the women who reported using violence in the National Family Violence Survey, 64% also experienced violence from their male partners (Straus & Gelles, 1990). Furthermore, several studies with women who have been arrested for domestic violence (Hamberger & Guse, 2002; Stuart et al., 2006; Swan & Snow, 2002) found that the number of women reporting violence from their male partners was greater than 90%.

This is true. Studies have also consistently found that the majority of domestically violent men also have experienced violence from their female partners, and all the numbers above likely would apply to men as well - only slightly higher, because while most domestic violence is reciprocal, when it's not, women are the violent ones 70% of the time.

Women and their partners used equivalent levels of psychological aggression. Women used higher levels of moderate physical violence than their partners used against them, and about the same level of severe physical violence. However, women were about 1.5 times more likely to experience coercive control as they were to be coercively controlling. Similarly, women were 2.5 times more likely to be sexually coerced than they were to use sexual coercion against their partners. And women were 1.5 times more likely to be injured than they were to injure their partners.

So for coercive control, we're talking a 60/40 split (not terribly unlike the CDC split for severe violence, which is just a little narrower)(this does disagree with the other study where women showed coercive control at higher rates than men, but it's still close to equal). For sexual coercion I don't believe it - men who are sexually coerced by their partners often don't report it because it's so shameful, not to mention unbelievable (like they fear people literally won't believe them), but even if I accept it (which flies in the face of other research), we're still talking a "not severe split" on domestic violence. Injury is also only a 60/40 split.

Utilizing information from the National Comorbidity Survey, Williams and Frieze (2005) found that female participants who experienced partner aggression reported significantly higher distress and lower marital satisfaction when compared to male participants who experienced partner aggression.

This is part of the "if men ask for help, they lose all right to it" thing that I always talk about. If he talks about being unhappy, then he's a bad man. Seriously.


Moving on.

[Galloism]

The third study pointed out its own methodological flaws and theyr'e the same ones as Johnson 1995:

Existing studies on women’s motivations for using intimate partner violence (IPV) have the following methodological limitations: 1) most recruit subjects from IPV shelters, jails or batterers’ treatment programs which represent only a small proportion of women involved in violent relationships; and 2) data come predominantly from small qualitative studies or from author-created questionnaires without comprehensive psychometric validation; social desirability bias was rarely measured.

Evidence suggests that women commonly use IPV in response to their partner’s violence either in self-defense or in retaliation. However, the definition of self-defense was inconsistent between studies.

Anger expression was a recurrent theme, and women frequently stated that they used IPV because they felt ignored.

Coercive control was mentioned by women as a reason for IPV, but was not endorsed in any of the included studies as women’s most frequent motivation.

Their analysis includes mostly studies of women in shelters to see what IPV they perpetrated. This would tend to skew the sample towards self-defense, as these are women who felt the need to flee. This is not an acceptable sampling methodology from which to draw general conclusions.

And although coercive control was not the most frequent motivation among women, the 2nd study from before also showed that's not the most frequent motivation among men either. It's the least frequent.


EDIT: Just going to edit in number 4 and 5 here. I couldn't find number 4 for free anywhere and I'm not paying $20 for an NSG conversation. Number 5, however, will be detailed below. Note: this is about effects of violence, not just the presence of it. So we'd have to debate whether a rape is more heinous if it causes injury vs not causing injury as a concept. IE, is a woman who was raped, but not physically injured during the rape, less worthy of protection than one who is injured by it?

That's a really sticky question, and I'm not sure I'm ready to give it a side. However, with regarding to study number 5, it found only moderate differences in outcome between men and women when it comes to IPV victimization effects, with some effects conflicted but women generally suffering moderately more from IPV, save one:

Women were far more likely to experience PTSD than men from severe violence.

That's an interesting outcome. I'm not quite sure what it means, but it's interesting.

[Bakery Hill]

Okay mate, I've seen you around this site often enough to know this is a special interest of yours. I haven't got the time or the patience to go through studies and cherrypick what I want and put forward my favourite sources, that said I appreciate the attention you've given this. But let's just look at the conclusion.

Women and men were equally likely to experience less severe acts of physical aggression that were not embedded in a pattern of control. However, only women experienced a severe and chronic pattern of violence and control involving high levels of fear and injury. For women and men, intermediate patterns of violence and control, and patterns describing exclusively non-physical acts of abuse were also found.

Are you disputing that? Because that broadly conforms with my understanding. Your main thrust instead seems to be that because of male attitudes, domestic violence against men by women are underreported. I'd say that's true, but the extent of which is extremely hard to prove. It can also easily be argued that 85% of men in one study expressed no fear about domestic violence because many of them weren't particularly afraid? That "three quarters of victims in family violence incidents attended by police were female and 77 per cent of perpetrators recorded by police were male" because these cases of domestic violence were often the most serious? You've got a good point that's often ignored, I'm not denying that, but I'd argue you're taking it too far.

[Galloism]

Okay mate, I've seen you around this site often enough to know this is a special interest of yours. I haven't got the time or the patience to go through studies and cherrypick what I want and put forward my favourite sources, but let's just look at the conclusion.

Women and men were equally likely to experience less severe acts of physical aggression that were not embedded in a pattern of control. However, only women experienced a severe and chronic pattern of violence and control involving high levels of fear and injury. For women and men, intermediate patterns of violence and control, and patterns describing exclusively non-physical acts of abuse were also found.

Are you disputing that? Because that broadly conforms with my understanding. Your main thrust instead seems to be that because of male attitudes, domestic violence against men by women are underreported. I'd say that's true, but the extent of which is extremely hard to prove. It can also easily be argued that 85% of men in one study expressed no fear about domestic violence because many of them weren't particularly afraid? That "three quarters of victims in family violence incidents attended by police were female and 77 per cent of perpetrators recorded by police were male" because these cases of domestic violence were often the most serious? You've got a good point that's often ignored, I'm not denying that, but you're taking it far too.

I'm disputing the sampling method.

These studies only surveyed women in shelters and men in prison. This is a really key point.

Do you think that's a representative result of the total population?

As an example, could I get a good representation of the political chances in 2018 by sampling only republicans?

[Bakery Hill]

Okay mate, I've seen you around this site often enough to know this is a special interest of yours. I haven't got the time or the patience to go through studies and cherrypick what I want and put forward my favourite sources, but let's just look at the conclusion.



Are you disputing that? Because that broadly conforms with my understanding. Your main thrust instead seems to be that because of male attitudes, domestic violence against men by women are underreported. I'd say that's true, but the extent of which is extremely hard to prove. It can also easily be argued that 85% of men in one study expressed no fear about domestic violence because many of them weren't particularly afraid? That "three quarters of victims in family violence incidents attended by police were female and 77 per cent of perpetrators recorded by police were male" because these cases of domestic violence were often the most serious? You've got a good point that's often ignored, I'm not denying that, but you're taking it far too.

I'm disputing the sampling method.

These studies only surveyed women in shelters and men in prison. This is a really key point.

Do you think that's a representative result of the total population?

As an example, could I get a good representation of the political chances in 2018 by sampling only republicans?

That's something I might have to go over in my own time, I can totally see how that might be a methodological problem, but not one that would completely discredit the idea that women face the brunt of domestic violence in terms of severity. But you've ignored the rest of what I've said. Take a look at this article, it comes from a pretty reputable local source here. I can't help but wonder why the data collected by the Bureau of Statistics on random households is so different to those presented in the CDC document you always bring up. I don't think our cultures are that different in this regard.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/20 ... cs/7147938

[Galloism]

I'm disputing the sampling method.

These studies only surveyed women in shelters and men in prison. This is a really key point.

Do you think that's a representative result of the total population?

As an example, could I get a good representation of the political chances in 2018 by sampling only republicans?

That's something I might have to go over in my own time, I can totally see how that might be a methodological problem, but not one that would completely discredit the idea that women face the brunt of domestic violence in terms of severity. But you've ignored the rest of what I've said. Take a look at this article, it comes from a pretty reputable local source here. I can't help but wonder why the data collected by the Bureau of Statistics on random households is so different to those presented in the CDC document you always bring up. I don't think our cultures are that different in this regard.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/20 ... cs/7147938

Eh, I don't know.

I watched Cassie Jaye's interview where they asked her about a boy that was killed by his father in a domestic violence situation, and the TV newscasters were talking about it being "violence against women". Cassie, to her credit, pointed out that the main victim of this violence was actually the little boy, and this is why boys and men need protection from domestic violence.

She shocked the newscasters. They couldn't even conceive of that she would consider the boy the victim instead of the boy's mother. He was only murdered after all.

Anyway, the coercive control problem seems to vary considerably on your sample set. A University of Cumbria study found women actually engage in more coercive control in relationship than men do. Although, having made serious criticisms of the sampling method of surveying women in shelters and men in prison, I must also point out that the entire survey sample was college students. College student results may, or may not, be generalizable to the public in general.

It's probably better than the shelter/prison group, but that's not the same as "accurate".

Furthermore, in our sample, 7% of men and 11% of women were categorized as
“intimate terrorists”, i.e. they were using controlling aggression against their partner
in the absence (or infrequent use) of controlling behavior from these partners.
Consistent with this, 13% of men and 8% of women were categorised as showing
“violent resistance”, i.e. they were physically aggressive to their controlling partner in
the absence of controlling behavior themselves

[Bakery Hill]

That's something I might have to go over in my own time, I can totally see how that might be a methodological problem, but not one that would completely discredit the idea that women face the brunt of domestic violence in terms of severity. But you've ignored the rest of what I've said. Take a look at this article, it comes from a pretty reputable local source here. I can't help but wonder why the data collected by the Bureau of Statistics on random households is so different to those presented in the CDC document you always bring up. I don't think our cultures are that different in this regard.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/20 ... cs/7147938

Eh, I don't know.

I watched Cassie Jaye's interview where they asked her about a boy that was killed by his father in a domestic violence situation, and the TV newscasters were talking about it being "violence against women". Cassie, to her credit, pointed out that the main victim of this violence was actually the little boy, and this is why boys and men need protection from domestic violence.

She shocked the newscasters. They couldn't even conceive of that she would consider the boy the victim instead of the boy's mother. He was only murdered after all.

Anyway, the coercive control problem seems to vary considerably on your sample set. A University of Cumbria study found women actually engage in more coercive control in relationship than men do. Although, having made serious criticisms of the sampling method of surveying women in shelters and men in prison, I must also point out that the entire survey sample was college students. College student results may, or may not, be generalizable to the public in general.

It's probably better than the shelter/prison group, but that's not the same as "accurate".

Furthermore, in our sample, 7% of men and 11% of women were categorized as
“intimate terrorists”, i.e. they were using controlling aggression against their partner
in the absence (or infrequent use) of controlling behavior from these partners.
Consistent with this, 13% of men and 8% of women were categorised as showing
“violent resistance”, i.e. they were physically aggressive to their controlling partner in
the absence of controlling behavior themselves

Which is why I think we need to be more careful on the differences between domestic violence and intimate partner violence in this sort of discourse. That said "domestic violence" has come to mean IPV in Australia especially in the courts, while other sorts of violence is usually called family violence.

Also again, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on why there's such a large discrepancy between the ABS and your CDC on DV statistics.

[Galloism]

Furthermore, in our sample, 7% of men and 11% of women were categorized as
“intimate terrorists”, i.e. they were using controlling aggression against their partner
in the absence (or infrequent use) of controlling behavior from these partners.
Consistent with this, 13% of men and 8% of women were categorised as showing
“violent resistance”, i.e. they were physically aggressive to their controlling partner in
the absence of controlling behavior themselves

Which is why I think we need to be more careful on the differences between domestic violence and intimate partner violence in this sort of discourse. That said "domestic violence" has come to mean IPV in Australia especially in the courts, while other sorts of violence is usually called family violence.

Also again, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on why there's such a large discrepancy between the ABS and your CDC on DV statistics.

I'm looking over the ABS report now. Give me a few minutes to see what the basis is.

[Bakery Hill]

Which is why I think we need to be more careful on the differences between domestic violence and intimate partner violence in this sort of discourse. That said "domestic violence" has come to mean IPV in Australia especially in the courts, while other sorts of violence is usually called family violence.

Also again, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on why there's such a large discrepancy between the ABS and your CDC on DV statistics.

I'm looking over the ABS report now. Give me a few minutes to see what the basis is.

This will help if you haven't got there already.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf ... ter1002012