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Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Would you like that Catalonia becomes a State?

Yes
541
56%
No
310
32%
I don't know /never mind
116
12%
 
Total votes : 967

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TrueCapitalist
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Sep 30, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby TrueCapitalist » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:07 pm

The smaller government is, the better. If these means spiting countries into two, or having a confederation of autonomous states.

I don't care about the ethnicity of Catalonians. if they want to be independent, allow them to be independent, do throw a fit over them wanting to self govern them selves.

Ellarine wrote:Nope, absolutely not. I am against any and all independence movements, the Catalan one included. I am absolutely sick to death of all these nationalist movements that seem to be cropping up everywhere! Nationalism has absolutely no place in modern society, it is an appalling aberration of yesteryear


Maybe you should stop throwing a fit over people not wanting be part of some bad one world government. Look at the EU. The EU members have little control over them selves, and have to give into what ever Brussels thinks they should do. Then look at what has happened with the Refuge Crisis. It is very clear that trying to move the most impoverished countries in the Islamic world into Europe has not worked. Crime, Rape, and Terrorism are at an all time high, they do not support womens rights, and they hate anyone who is not a muslim. You can't group every culture together in a single nation other wise people will get disenfranchised and start their own nationalist movements to form there own state, before there identity gets wipped out by another.

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Phoenicaea
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1968
Founded: May 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Phoenicaea » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:53 pm

European Union used as an applied sample of wider concepts, self-government, cooperation, and so, gets so often into the debate, from both opposing sides, in unreralistic and utterly absurd way. "European Union", both what it is and its mechanics, has no relation with the way you suppose it to be, in actual political life. That is fiction.
Last edited by Phoenicaea on Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Albrenia
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Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:17 pm

But Illuminatii is gonna take all our rights... :p

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 79496
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:24 pm

Albrenia wrote:But Illuminatii is gonna take all our rights... :p

And our precious bodily fluids!!
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Albrenia
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Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:26 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Albrenia wrote:But Illuminatii is gonna take all our rights... :p

And our precious bodily fluids!!


My reptillian handler informs me that the bodily fluids thing is "fake news". His tongue did keep shooting out while he was speaking though.

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 79496
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:32 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:And our precious bodily fluids!!


My reptillian handler informs me that the bodily fluids thing is "fake news". His tongue did keep shooting out while he was speaking though.

He was just testing the air.
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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Chestaan
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Posts: 6975
Founded: Sep 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chestaan » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:58 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:
If it's that close to a default as is, then it's going to do it anyway.

It's not that close to default, but when you take 20% of the economy away and keep 100% of the debt, shit happens and it's not pretty


Spain's current debt to GDP ratio is 99.4% (as of 2016). If 20% of its economy dissappeared, this number would become 124%. Which is pretty bad, however, both Italy and Portugal already have worse ratios than that. This is absolute worst case scenario for Spain, which will in any case probably not come about.
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Thermodolia
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Posts: 79496
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:23 am

Chestaan wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:It's not that close to default, but when you take 20% of the economy away and keep 100% of the debt, shit happens and it's not pretty


Spain's current debt to GDP ratio is 99.4% (as of 2016). If 20% of its economy dissappeared, this number would become 124%. Which is pretty bad, however, both Italy and Portugal already have worse ratios than that. This is absolute worst case scenario for Spain, which will in any case probably not come about.

Ok but a sudden shock to the system those nations didn't have
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Socialist Czechia
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Posts: 6176
Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Czechia » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:36 am

By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

Image
Last edited by Socialist Czechia on Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who reached my boundary, their seed is not; their hearts and their souls are finished forever and ever. As for those who had assembled before them on the sea, the full flame was their front before the harbour mouths, and a wall of metal upon the shore surrounded them. They were dragged, overturned, and laid low upon the beach; slain and made heaps from stern to bow of their galleys, while all their things were cast upon the water." - Ramesses III., Battle of the Delta

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Posts: 215150
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:47 am

All I know is that as things stand, I’m not letting my mom go back to Spain. I’m bringing her over to the US mainland in the next 2-3 years.
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Aellex
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Posts: 4635
Founded: Apr 23, 2016
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Postby Aellex » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:53 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:All I know is that as things stand, I’m not letting my mom go back to Spain. I’m bringing her over to the US mainland in the next 2-3 years.

Why tho? I mean, having family near is nice but the situation still appears to be very good in Spain.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Posts: 215150
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:54 am

Aellex wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:All I know is that as things stand, I’m not letting my mom go back to Spain. I’m bringing her over to the US mainland in the next 2-3 years.

Why tho? I mean, having family near is nice but the situation still appears to be very good in Spain.


Let’s just “es mejor precabir que tener que remedial”.
≽^•⩊•^≼Bidh a h-uile dad a tha agus a bha, a sguir a bhith…-
Ye furry factbook. ≽^•⩊•^≼

Also: THERNSY!!
֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Aellex
Senator
 
Posts: 4635
Founded: Apr 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aellex » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:00 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Let’s just “es mejor precabir que tener que remedial”.

Well, fair enough tho I still doubt things will get violent there. Nevertheless you're right about that, better to have remorses than regrets after all.
Last edited by Aellex on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Citoyen Français. Disillusioned Gaulliste. Catholique.

Tombé au champ d'honneur, add 11400 posts.

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RIP Balk, you were too good a shitposter for this site.

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Catlander
Envoy
 
Posts: 231
Founded: Jul 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Catlander » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:05 am

Image

Rajoy the big seducer:
"Don't go catalans! Where are you going to be better than us? We love you!"
Last edited by USS Monitor on Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: spoilered large image

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35361
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:11 am

TrueCapitalist wrote:The smaller government is, the better.


Flint, Michigan thought the same thing.

And that got them lead in there water.

Say what you want about big government, at least they make sure that there isn't any lead in the water.

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 79496
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:31 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

(Image)

Divide and conquer: Russia's plan for world domination.
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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The Empire of Pretantia
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Posts: 39273
Founded: Oct 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:35 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

(Image)

But they are allowed to have those opinions.
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Dushan
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Founded: Feb 17, 2016
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Postby Dushan » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:40 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

(Image)


Looks like at the beginning of Europe Universalis in 1453 or so.

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Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:47 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

(Image)

Um...is it a bad thing for me to say that this looks more appealing to me than the present map of Europe?
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
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Aellex
Senator
 
Posts: 4635
Founded: Apr 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aellex » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:48 am

Kubumba Tribe wrote:
Socialist Czechia wrote:By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

(Image)

Um...is it a bad thing for me to say that this looks more appealing to me than the present map of Europe?

Yes. Balkanisation kill progress, wealth and society.
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Larin
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Founded: Sep 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Larin » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:49 am

Catlander wrote:(Image)
Rajoy the big seducer:
"Don't go catalans! Where are you going to be better than us? We love you!"


Catalonia shall never become independent, and if war breaks out, i will support Spain
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:49 am

Socialist Czechia wrote:By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

(Image)


Why not balkanize switzerland?

Because it is a nation of "will"?
But the conceit of the map is that so are the others.

Ethnonationalistic nonsense, seems to me. Many nations, one state, is a fine mantra.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kubumba Tribe
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Founded: Apr 09, 2015
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Postby Kubumba Tribe » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:53 am

Larin wrote:
Catlander wrote:(Image)
Rajoy the big seducer:
"Don't go catalans! Where are you going to be better than us? We love you!"


Catalonia shall never become independent, and if war breaks out, i will support Spain

Idk akhi, my philosophy is that if the people want it, and they have a sane leader, and they are well off, they should have their independence. Also, it should cause too much pain on the nation they want to separate from.
Last edited by Kubumba Tribe on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Socialist Czechia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6176
Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Czechia » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:12 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Socialist Czechia wrote:By the way, isn't rise of separatism inevitable side effect of democracy? If you allow people to have opinions, they can have many kinds of opinions...

So if you don't want to allow them to have such certain opinions, you must be okay with less democracy and more barbed wires.

(Image)


Why not balkanize switzerland?

Because it is a nation of "will"?
But the conceit of the map is that so are the others.

Ethnonationalistic nonsense, seems to me. Many nations, one state, is a fine mantra.


There are, can be said, ages of empire and ages of strife: last imperial age ended with colonialism and fall of major empires, with some of them desperately trying to fight it (Russia) or transform it to stay relevant (EU).

But now there's age of strife.

Only the Emperor of Mankind can end this cycle on Terra for good 8)
"Those who reached my boundary, their seed is not; their hearts and their souls are finished forever and ever. As for those who had assembled before them on the sea, the full flame was their front before the harbour mouths, and a wall of metal upon the shore surrounded them. They were dragged, overturned, and laid low upon the beach; slain and made heaps from stern to bow of their galleys, while all their things were cast upon the water." - Ramesses III., Battle of the Delta

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Trumptonium
Minister
 
Posts: 2818
Founded: Jan 27, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumptonium » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:17 am

All five of Catalonia's largest companies have now announced they will be moving headquarters to Madrid.

an Independent Catalonia looks increasingly bankrupt.

Also, huge protests against the referendum have sparked across Spain as Abascal is organising some kind of unionist awakening.

[spoiler

Image
Image
Image
Image
[/spoiler]
Last edited by Trumptonium on Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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