Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

[Torrocca]

If you're being called a Nazi and your first thought is, "hmm, well, if they're calling me one... might as well join them!" instead of, "y'know, maybe some self-reflections on my political and social views would be a good thing to do," then the problem doesn't lie with the ones calling you a Nazi.

the problem probably lies in those who are unintelligent enough to brush everyone further right than lenin as a nazi. no need for any self-reflection, other than your reflection of society having a few more stupid people than you previously thought.

No, no, I'm pretty fuckin' sure the problem lies in the people who actually join the fucking Nazis after being called a Nazi.

It's not that hard to, y'know, not join the Nazis.

[Corrian]

Look, I get the annoyance in being called various things, and it is pathetic when people call you things you're not. But if you're like "Oh, people call me this, so I may as well be far-right", it isn't the problem of the idiots calling you things you're not, that is only the fault of you for being stupid.

I have been called various things, and I don't end up just going "Oh, they call me this thing, so let's be it to prove them right", because I'm not an idiot.

[Vassenor]

Look, I get the annoyance in being called various things, and it is pathetic when people call you things you're not. But if you're like "Oh, people call me this, so I may as well be far-right", it isn't the problem of the idiots calling you things you're not, that is only the fault of you for being stupid.

I have been called various things, and I don't end up just going "Oh, they call me this thing, so let's be it to prove them right", because I'm not an idiot.

If they think that maybe we should start calling them agoraphobics. Then maybe they'll stop going outside.

[Lady Scylla]

Look, I get the annoyance in being called various things, and it is pathetic when people call you things you're not. But if you're like "Oh, people call me this, so I may as well be far-right", it isn't the problem of the idiots calling you things you're not, that is only the fault of you for being stupid.

I have been called various things, and I don't end up just going "Oh, they call me this thing, so let's be it to prove them right", because I'm not an idiot.

Pretty much. If someone takes that mentality, I don't see it as them being 'caused' to go that way, they were already going that way to begin with. They're just using the fact of people calling them it as an excuse -- sort of like a scapegoat.

[Albrenia]

People who call everyone they see a Nazi are idiots, and should be openly mocked.

Those who get called Nazis and then respond by choosing to become Nazis, or do everything in their power to look like Nazis, are idiots and also deserve to be mocked. Also humiliated and shunned, since that path leads to a hell of a lot worse than mislabelling people.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

People who call everyone they see a Nazi are idiots, and should be openly mocked.

Those who get called Nazis and then respond by choosing to become Nazis, or do everything in their power to look like Nazis, are idiots and also deserve to be mocked. Also humiliated and shunned, since that path leads to a hell of a lot worse than mislabelling people.

Ok?

[Albrenia]

People who call everyone they see a Nazi are idiots, and should be openly mocked.

Those who get called Nazis and then respond by choosing to become Nazis, or do everything in their power to look like Nazis, are idiots and also deserve to be mocked. Also humiliated and shunned, since that path leads to a hell of a lot worse than mislabelling people.

Ok?

Just voicing my opinion on all the people saying 'the left made us Nazis!' and crap like that. Calling people Nazis for being on the right is stupid, but so is becoming a Nazi because someone hurt your feelings.

[Arcturus Novus]

What's any of this got to do with Catalonian independence?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ok?

Just voicing my opinion on all the people saying 'the left made us Nazis!' and crap like that. Calling people Nazis for being on the right is stupid, but so is becoming a Nazi because someone hurt your feelings.

I get that but, what does this has to do with the current issue in Catalunya?

[Albrenia]

What's any of this got to do with Catalonian independence?

People objecting to people being called brutal because of the police going apeshit on the illegal voters, or something.

[Torrocca]

Just voicing my opinion on all the people saying 'the left made us Nazis!' and crap like that. Calling people Nazis for being on the right is stupid, but so is becoming a Nazi because someone hurt your feelings.

I get that but, what does this has to do with the current issue in Catalunya?

People are getting upset because some other people on this thread drew some parallels between Rajoy and Hitler due to Rajoy's reaction to Catalan's referendum.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I get that but, what does this has to do with the current issue in Catalunya?

People are getting upset because some other people on this thread drew some parallels between Rajoy and Hitler due to Rajoy's reaction to Catalan's referendum.

Ah, ok. That's ridiculous. Rajoy is an incompetent fool.

[Torrocca]

People are getting upset because some other people on this thread drew some parallels between Rajoy and Hitler due to Rajoy's reaction to Catalan's referendum.

Ah, ok. That's ridiculous. Rajoy is an incompetent fool.

No argument there.

I do find a bit of merit to the Hitler parallels though, considering the rather brutish nature of the response by Madrid.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ah, ok. That's ridiculous. Rajoy is an incompetent fool.

No argument there.

I do find a bit of merit to the Hitler parallels though, considering the rather brutish nature of the response by Madrid.

That was a bit much, I must say. There was no call for that. However, both sides have handled this like morons.

[Torrocca]

No argument there.

I do find a bit of merit to the Hitler parallels though, considering the rather brutish nature of the response by Madrid.

That was a bit much, I must say. There was no call for that. However, both sides have handled this like morons.

Sure, but I can't say I find fault in the Catalans pushing for independence regardless.

[MERIZoC]

If Catalonians pushing for independence will cause severe economic problems for Europe then it is in fact in their interests to ensure a smooth process, whatever that may be.

It's in Europe's interests to keep Spain intact. If Catalonia goes, so does 20% of Spain's GDP and a shitload of public debt that Madrid will now have to pay for by itself. And boy if you think Greek austerity is going to be bad, wait until you see what happens when Madrid has to pay for Catalonia's share of the national debt.

By the way, Catalonian independence won't solve Catalonia's debt problems, because no self respecting international institution is going to touch it with a 50 foot barge pole tipped with dogshit. So now we have Spain tanked beyond anything it has experienced before, an independent Catalonia with no way of securing loans, and the rest of Europe going back into recession. That brings a wave of new social unrest and gives fuel for the European far right.

Congratulations, you've discovered why Europe's strategy with dealing with debt is stupid and harmful.

[Thermodolia]

1. Yes they are leaving Spain. Catalonia is apart of Spain and Spanish laws apply there.
2. Again Catalonia is subordinate to Spain. Therefore they can't leave Spain
3. Yes. The Spanish constitution says that Spanish laws apply in Catalonia
4. The Catalonians are breaking the law. It's illegal to hold a referendum or to leave Spain of which Catalonia is apart of.

You can't just decide what laws apply and what don't on a whim.

1 & 2 - contradictory.
And 4, I don't think it's illegal to hold a referendum, say, for example, for a more federal system like Germany.

No 1&2 aren't contradictory. And under the Spanish constitution and laws referendums on independence are illegal. It doesn't matter what you think

[Thermodolia]

Spanish court suspends Catalan parliament session in attempt to block independence

Looks like Madrid really doesn't want Catalonia to stay part of Spain for much longer. Madrid has already lost, now it's just a matter of how big of a victory they are going to give to the separatist movements.

Madrid hasn't lost. Catalonia doesn't have a military and the EU isn't going to recognize Catalonia

[Thermodolia]

They think that continued cries of fascism and calling those opposed fascists will help them. Instead it's done the exact opposite. Instead of people not wanting to be fascist a bunch of people have decided what the hell we are already called Nazis and fascists on the daily, even though we aren't either of them, so why not just join the far right.

It's amazing when the far left destroys their own goals by insulting the moderates

Is that what you've done?

No. I'm not far-right. More center-rightish. But if I keep getting called fascist and literally Hitler for supporting the law and wanting order then I might as well

[Nakena]

Hitler stopped being the boogyman and doesnt scares anymore. He has been so often used as a meme of the ultimative evil that it became inflationary.

Tell us rather how things down there, I would be actually interested in that rather than some meme.

They think that continued cries of fascism and calling those opposed fascists will help them. Instead it's done the exact opposite. Instead of people not wanting to be fascist a bunch of people have decided what the hell we are already called Nazis and fascists on the daily, even though we aren't either of them, so why not just join the far right.

It's amazing when the far left destroys their own goals by insulting the moderates

It's currently chic again to be a walking on the edge of the far-right. Happens that some People fall into the brown swamp and... end up enjoying it.

I saw this happen to many people, despite I believe the radical alt-right movement has by now peaked out.

Is that what you've done?

No. I'm not far-right. More center-rightish. But if I keep getting called fascist and literally Hitler for supporting the law and wanting order then I might as well

I had been there for a time.

[Greed and Death]

Spanish court suspends Catalan parliament session in attempt to block independence

Looks like Madrid really doesn't want Catalonia to stay part of Spain for much longer. Madrid has already lost, now it's just a matter of how big of a victory they are going to give to the separatist movements.

Madrid hasn't lost. Catalonia doesn't have a military and the EU isn't going to recognize Catalonia

They might if Catalans bait the Spaniards into using force.

[Albrenia]

Is that what you've done?

No. I'm not far-right. More center-rightish. But if I keep getting called fascist and literally Hitler for supporting the law and wanting order then I might as well

Might as well abandon your values because someone else is an annoying brat?

[Torrocca]

Is that what you've done?

No. I'm not far-right. More center-rightish. But if I keep getting called fascist and literally Hitler for supporting the law and wanting order then I might as well

Well that's a fucking stupid belief if you actually believe that.

It's like saying you jumped off a bridge because some dumb-as-rocks bully told you too. Would you do that too?

[Proctopeo]

No. I'm not far-right. More center-rightish. But if I keep getting called fascist and literally Hitler for supporting the law and wanting order then I might as well

Well that's a fucking stupid belief if you actually believe that.

It's like saying you jumped off a bridge because some dumb-as-rocks bully told you too. Would you do that too?

The logic is that people will say it regardless of it being true or not, so what's the problem?
I prefer the plan of "acknowledge them but quietly work to make their voices meaningless". You keep (most of) your integrity that way!

[Torrocca]

Well that's a fucking stupid belief if you actually believe that.

It's like saying you jumped off a bridge because some dumb-as-rocks bully told you too. Would you do that too?

The logic is that people will say it regardless of it being true or not, so what's the problem?
I prefer the plan of "acknowledge them but quietly work to make their voices meaningless". You keep (most of) your integrity that way!

Alternatively, maybe take them a bit seriously and have a bit of introspection. Maybe their point isn't 100% wrong and something you're saying or some idea you have does sound Nazi-like.