[Abortion][REVISED POLL] If you had the power...

[VoVoDoCo]

I think you've done it. You've managed to come up with a bill that will unite all of congress: every single fucking one of them would vote against such a moronic idea.

No the democrats would think they were voting on gun control as they would be given the part of the bill to read on that and the republicans would be given the part on abortion control. Both houses would vote yes and then when it passes both are banned with out either side knowning what just happened.

I refuse to believe you actually believe that.

[Neutraligon]

I think you've done it. You've managed to come up with a bill that will unite all of congress: every single fucking one of them would vote against such a moronic idea.

No the democrats would think they were voting on gun control as they would be given the part of the bill to read on that and the republicans would be given the part on abortion control. Both houses would vote yes and then when it passes both are banned with out either side knowning what just happened.

Have you ever had a class where you learned how Congress works? This is so far from reality that I have to wonder what your school was doing.

[Thermodolia]

I think you've done it. You've managed to come up with a bill that will unite all of congress: every single fucking one of them would vote against such a moronic idea.

No the democrats would think they were voting on gun control as they would be given the part of the bill to read on that and the republicans would be given the part on abortion control. Both houses would vote yes and then when it passes both are banned with out either side knowning what just happened.

That's called illegal.

[Salandriagado]

I think you've done it. You've managed to come up with a bill that will unite all of congress: every single fucking one of them would vote against such a moronic idea.

No the democrats would think they were voting on gun control as they would be given the part of the bill to read on that and the republicans would be given the part on abortion control. Both houses would vote yes and then when it passes both are banned with out either side knowning what just happened.

Yeah, no, that's not how government works.

[The New California Republic]

No the democrats would think they were voting on gun control as they would be given the part of the bill to read on that and the republicans would be given the part on abortion control. Both houses would vote yes and then when it passes both are banned with out either side knowning what just happened.

Have you ever had a class where you learned how Congress works? This is so far from reality that I have to wonder what your school was doing.

Keshiland has previously said that his school didn't teach him much in the way of sex-ed/abortion etc. I am starting to suspect that the Principal of Keshiland's school was asleep at the wheel...

[Segral]

Keshiland's still here? I thought he was griping about marriage.

[Farnhamia]

Keshiland's still here? I thought he was griping about marriage.

Keshiland is not the subject of this or any other thread.

[Segral]

No, no, I mean that he's still going around forums advocating his crazy ideals.

[Tananat]

Keshiland's still here? I thought he was griping about marriage.

Keshiland is not the subject of this or any other thread.

Can you tell him that?

[Wallenburg]

Keshiland is not the subject of this or any other thread.

Can you tell him that?

That's not the point. The point is that Keshiland has been, more or less, the subject of this thread for several pages. That's not good. So....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41504055
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... rtion-requ

Anti-choice lawmaker is no longer seeking reelection now that an extramarital pregnancy rumor has tainted his name. For those that don't want to read the articles in full, he did indeed have an affair, but there was no pregnancy, and he didn't actually urge his lover to get an abortion.

[Godular]

Can you tell him that?

That's not the point. The point is that Keshiland has been, more or less, the subject of this thread for several pages. That's not good. So....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41504055
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... rtion-requ

Anti-choice lawmaker is no longer seeking reelection now that an extramarital pregnancy rumor has tainted his name. For those that don't want to read the articles in full, he did indeed have an affair, but there was no pregnancy, and he didn't actually urge his lover to get an abortion.

Well, that would certainly spork any supposed moral high ground he'd try to push.

[Keshiland]

The abortion bill would only stop 10,000 or around 2% of all abortions but NOOOOOOOOO it's too extreme mothers must be allowed to kill the baby if its feet are still in the womb at birth. If just 1 hair is still in the mother it's her body so she has that right. Like honestly why can't we just all agree that this bill is reasonable? It still lets those raped or at risk abort and only prevent what is essentially last-minute abortions at a time when pretty much all scientists agree the fetus is equal to the baby.

Fetus at 20 weeks.

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregn ... ks_1109.bc

[Neutraligon]

The abortion bill would only stop 10,000 or around 2% of all abortions but NOOOOOOOOO it's too extreme mothers must be allowed to kill the baby if its feet are still in the womb at birth. If just 1 hair is still in the mother it's her body so she has that right. Like honestly why can't we just all agree that this bill is reasonable? It still lets those raped or at risk abort and only prevent what is essentially last-minute abortions at a time when pretty much all scientists agree the fetus is equal to the baby.

(Image)

Fetus at 20 weeks.

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregn ... ks_1109.bc

First spoiler your images. Second have you found why those women have abortions beyond 21 weeks? Because by that point I doubt that this bill will do anything. Oh and I still find it wrong since the fetus tends not to be viable. Oh and nice appeal to emotion and strawman...Are you able to debate against anything but strawmen?

Oh and...do you admit your last post was pure BS with no idea how passing laws work?

[Keshiland]

The abortion bill would only stop 10,000 or around 2% of all abortions but NOOOOOOOOO it's too extreme mothers must be allowed to kill the baby if its feet are still in the womb at birth. If just 1 hair is still in the mother it's her body so she has that right. Like honestly why can't we just all agree that this bill is reasonable? It still lets those raped or at risk abort and only prevent what is essentially last-minute abortions at a time when pretty much all scientists agree the fetus is equal to the baby.

(Image)

Fetus at 20 weeks.

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregn ... ks_1109.bc

First spoiler your images. Second have you found why those women have abortions beyond 21 weeks? Because by that point I doubt that this bill will do anything. Oh and I still find it wrong since the fetus tends not to be viable. Oh and nice appeal to emotion and strawman...Are you able to debate against anything but strawmen?

Oh and...do you admit your last post was pure BS with no idea how passing laws work?

This bill allows for
Abortions up to 20 weeks
Abortions after 20 weeks for rape or risk

What type of abortions or how late would you be willing to ban. What ever you don't ban means you are 100% morally okay with infants, (yes the literal only difference between infants and fetus is that they are born or hatched less then 28 days ago meaning that a 25 week old infant the exact same as a 25 week old fetus) at that state getting aborted for what ever reason the mother wishes.

[Neanderthaland]

The abortion bill would only stop 10,000 or around 2% of all abortions but NOOOOOOOOO it's too extreme mothers must be allowed to kill the baby if its feet are still in the womb at birth. If just 1 hair is still in the mother it's her body so she has that right. Like honestly why can't we just all agree that this bill is reasonable? It still lets those raped or at risk abort and only prevent what is essentially last-minute abortions at a time when pretty much all scientists agree the fetus is equal to the baby.

(Image) Fetus at 20 weeks.

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregn ... ks_1109.bc

Just as an aside, that's not what a fetus at 20 weeks looks like.

Fetuses at 20 weeks don't have fully developed baby fat on their faces, which gives them a sort of skeletal or snoutlike appearance. The belly should also be more distended, and the skin should be bright red and semi-transparent.

In other words, this is a doctored image intend to make 20 week old fetuses look like - not even newborn infants - but infants that are about a month old.

It's blatant deception, and you should be ashamed for using it.

[Neutraligon]

First spoiler your images. Second have you found why those women have abortions beyond 21 weeks? Because by that point I doubt that this bill will do anything. Oh and I still find it wrong since the fetus tends not to be viable. Oh and nice appeal to emotion and strawman...Are you able to debate against anything but strawmen?

Oh and...do you admit your last post was pure BS with no idea how passing laws work?

This bill allows for
Abortions up to 20 weeks
Abortions after 20 weeks for rape or risk

Correct. Now how many of those abortions above 21 weeks are due to risk or non viability of the fetus (cannot live outside the womb). By the way that exception is missing.

What type of abortions or how late would you be willing to ban.

Totally, at no point. I am willing to except restrictions past 24 weeks or viability.

What ever you don't ban means you are 100% morally okay with infants, (yes the literal only difference between infants and fetus is that they are born or hatched less then 28 days ago meaning that a 25 week old infant the exact same as a 25 week old fetus) at that state getting aborted for what ever reason the mother wishes.

No a 25 week old infant is not the same as a 25 week old fetus. Namely because when people use the term 25 week old infant it normally means a fetus that has come to term (9 months) and then lived 25 weeks. Those two are thus in very different situations. Where did you get the 28 day thing?

So about that thing you mentioned about hiding parts of the law from the different parties...

The abortion bill would only stop 10,000 or around 2% of all abortions but NOOOOOOOOO it's too extreme mothers must be allowed to kill the baby if its feet are still in the womb at birth. If just 1 hair is still in the mother it's her body so she has that right. Like honestly why can't we just all agree that this bill is reasonable? It still lets those raped or at risk abort and only prevent what is essentially last-minute abortions at a time when pretty much all scientists agree the fetus is equal to the baby.

(Image) Fetus at 20 weeks.

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregn ... ks_1109.bc

Just as an aside, that's not what a fetus at 20 weeks looks like.

Fetuses at 20 weeks don't have fully developed baby fat on their faces, which gives them a sort of skeletal or snoutlike appearance. The belly should also be more distended, and the skin should be bright red and semi-transparent.

In other words, this is a doctored image intend to make 20 week old fetuses look like - not even newborn infants - but infants that are about a month old.

It's blatant deception, and you should be ashamed for using it.

I was actually wondering if I would be allowed to post a photo of a 20 week old miscarriage to show precisely that.

[Keshiland]

The term infant is also used as formal/legal term for minor; that is, a child in general. A newborn infant is known as a neonate (neonatal, neonatus) after the final stage of gestation throughout the first three months. A human infant which is less than 28 days old is a newborn.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/infant.htm

16 weeks or later (did not have 20)

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

[Neutraligon]

The term infant is also used as formal/legal term for minor; that is, a child in general. A newborn infant is known as a neonate (neonatal, neonatus) after the final stage of gestation throughout the first three months. A human infant which is less than 28 days old is a newborn.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/infant.htm

16 weeks or later (did not have 20)

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

That was 1987 which is long enough ago and in a different enough time period to make this suspect. most of those seem to either be issues with being taught about recognizing pregnancy (though there will always be those pregnancies that are hard to recognize) and issues with access.

So I guess you are not going to comment on your lack of knowledge about how a law comes to be a law and you willingness to break the law when it comes to making abortion illegal?

[Greater Redosia]

The term infant is also used as formal/legal term for minor; that is, a child in general. A newborn infant is known as a neonate (neonatal, neonatus) after the final stage of gestation throughout the first three months. A human infant which is less than 28 days old is a newborn.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/infant.htm

16 weeks or later (did not have 20)

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

My friend you do realized, that all that info, was collected in a study from 1987 right? Thus not suitable as evidence to support your argument.

Please make sure you read your information from your sources, because wikipedia is not always the number 1 of sources.

[Greater Redosia]

The term infant is also used as formal/legal term for minor; that is, a child in general. A newborn infant is known as a neonate (neonatal, neonatus) after the final stage of gestation throughout the first three months. A human infant which is less than 28 days old is a newborn.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/infant.htm

16 weeks or later (did not have 20)

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

That was 1987 which is long enough ago and in a different enough time period to make this suspect.

DAMN IT BATMAN, why must you be that sly ninja that you are.

[Keshiland]

The term infant is also used as formal/legal term for minor; that is, a child in general. A newborn infant is known as a neonate (neonatal, neonatus) after the final stage of gestation throughout the first three months. A human infant which is less than 28 days old is a newborn.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/infant.htm

16 weeks or later (did not have 20)

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

That was 1987 which is long enough ago and in a different enough time period to make this suspect. most of those seem to either be issues with being taught about recognizing pregnancy (though there will always be those pregnancies that are hard to recognize) and issues with access.

So I guess you are not going to comment on your lack of knowledge about how a law comes to be a law and you willingness to break the law when it comes to making abortion illegal?

From 2004 cause people apparently, don't answer in 2015-present

Percentage Reason
<0.5% Victim of rape (Who would of thunk that was never a major reason and just used as a false argument by pro choice to avoid any real anti abortion mesurements)
3% Fetal health problems (Wow again very small almost as if its a straw man used by the pro choice again)
4% Physical health problems
4% Would interfere with education or career (Oh well maybe you should not have had sex then this would have never happened Oh and before you say making it a punishment for sex, can a man not pay child support if he did not want to be a dad but wanted sex Ill wait)
7% Not mature enough to raise a child (Im sorry I can't raise you well so ill kill you instead XOXO)
8% Don't want to be a single mother (Shame on the father but come on certianly there are guys who would be a father to some young girls baby #doubleCuteness)
19% Done having children (but not done having sex? did you consult with the kids 1st probably not)
23% Can't afford a baby (I'm sorry didn't relies finacial aid was not a thing was a thing, oh wait it is)
25% Not ready for a child (If you are ready for sex you should be ready for a child no matter how old you are0
6% Other (to shy to say?)

http://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_ab ... tatistics/

[Neutraligon]

That was 1987 which is long enough ago and in a different enough time period to make this suspect. most of those seem to either be issues with being taught about recognizing pregnancy (though there will always be those pregnancies that are hard to recognize) and issues with access.

So I guess you are not going to comment on your lack of knowledge about how a law comes to be a law and you willingness to break the law when it comes to making abortion illegal?

From 2004 cause people apparently, don't answer in 2015-present

Percentage Reason
<0.5% Victim of rape (Who would of thunk that was never a major reason and just used as a false argument by pro choice to avoid any real anti abortion mesurements)
3% Fetal health problems (Wow again very small almost as if its a straw man used by the pro choice again)
4% Physical health problems
4% Would interfere with education or career (Oh well maybe you should not have had sex then this would have never happened Oh and before you say making it a punishment for sex, can a man not pay child support if he did not want to be a dad but wanted sex Ill wait)
7% Not mature enough to raise a child (Im sorry I can't raise you well so ill kill you instead XOXO)
8% Don't want to be a single mother (Shame on the father but come on certianly there are guys who would be a father to some young girls baby #doubleCuteness)
19% Done having children (but not done having sex? did you consult with the kids 1st probably not)
23% Can't afford a baby (I'm sorry didn't relies finacial aid was not a thing was a thing, oh wait it is)
25% Not ready for a child (If you are ready for sex you should be ready for a child no matter how old you are0
6% Other (to shy to say?)

http://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_ab ... tatistics/

None of which was about abortions later then 20 weeks....Oh and I strongly disagree about those who have sex should be ready to have a child. And the financial aid thing...yeah typically not enough to help.It is not any kids concern whether their parents have sex, nor is it their concern if they have an additional child or not.

[Keshiland]

From 2004 cause people apparently, don't answer in 2015-present

Percentage Reason
<0.5% Victim of rape (Who would of thunk that was never a major reason and just used as a false argument by pro choice to avoid any real anti abortion mesurements)
3% Fetal health problems (Wow again very small almost as if its a straw man used by the pro choice again)
4% Physical health problems
4% Would interfere with education or career (Oh well maybe you should not have had sex then this would have never happened Oh and before you say making it a punishment for sex, can a man not pay child support if he did not want to be a dad but wanted sex Ill wait)
7% Not mature enough to raise a child (Im sorry I can't raise you well so ill kill you instead XOXO)
8% Don't want to be a single mother (Shame on the father but come on certianly there are guys who would be a father to some young girls baby #doubleCuteness)
19% Done having children (but not done having sex? did you consult with the kids 1st probably not)
23% Can't afford a baby (I'm sorry didn't relies finacial aid was not a thing was a thing, oh wait it is)
25% Not ready for a child (If you are ready for sex you should be ready for a child no matter how old you are0
6% Other (to shy to say?)

http://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_ab ... tatistics/

None of which was about abortions later then 20 weeks....Oh and I strongly disagree about those who have sex should be ready to have a child. And the financial aid thing...yeah typically not enough to help.It is not any kids concern whether their parents have sex, nor is it their concern if they have an additional child or not.

I cant find that info all the CBO said only about 10K abortions would be stopped a year with this bill

[Neutraligon]

None of which was about abortions later then 20 weeks....Oh and I strongly disagree about those who have sex should be ready to have a child. And the financial aid thing...yeah typically not enough to help.It is not any kids concern whether their parents have sex, nor is it their concern if they have an additional child or not.

I cant find that info all the CBO said only about 10K abortions would be stopped a year with this bill

Please source the CBO that said this. Given that we do not seem to have numbers as to why people have abortions beyond 21 weeks it would be really hard to figure out how many abortions would be prevented.
About that law you where thinking about where only half was disclosed..... Or are you going to keep ignoring that.

[Keshiland]

I cant find that info all the CBO said only about 10K abortions would be stopped a year with this bill

Please source the CBO that said this. Given that we do not seem to have numbers as to why people have abortions beyond 21 weeks it would be really hard to figure out how many abortions would be prevented.
About that law you where thinking about where only half was disclosed..... Or are you going to keep ignoring that.

About 2 percent of all abortions in America occur after 20 weeks gestation. The Congressional Budget Office estimated the Pain-Capable Act could prevent as many as 10,000 late-term abortions from taking place every year.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ill-but-f/ 4th to last paragraph

I would do that bill like that if I could wit out people catching on in a ultra 10 times worse partisan congress where the 2 sides refused to talk.