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by Collatis » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:59 pm
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders

by Gauthier » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:03 pm

by Collatis » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:43 pm
Corrian wrote:
Kinda funny there is a PAC to end Citizen's United...Which seemed to create a lot of PAC's.

PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders

by MERIZoC » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:21 am

by Tyrassueb » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:56 am
MERIZoC wrote:http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article175422391.html?anf=TOP_STORIES
On the economy, many black voters see little difference between GOP, Dems

by Ngelmish » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:26 pm
by Corrian » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:31 pm
Ngelmish wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554147818/california-moves-up-2020-primary-elections-to-march
So California really is pushing up it's primary for 2020. In practical terms, regardless of any stated or actual motives on the part of the legislators who voted for this, it's going to disproportionately favor whichever candidates are the strongest fundraisers. California is expensive as hell to compete in. Conversely this may make Iowa and New Hampshire even more crucial than they usually are for lesser known candidates, or candidates who simply aren't as flush with cash. If they can't notch a win in one or both of those (South Carolina remains an asterisk in this process of course, because it'll likely vault a different candidate to the forefront) they won't have the sheer financial muscle to even seriously compete in California.
Added to that the high probability that the initial primary will be very crowded, to the point that the winner of the Iowa caucus will perhaps need a threshold as low as say, 20% to come in first, the prospect that we'll get at least one long-shot candidate in a good place to be seriously considered, is actually higher than it might otherwise be. A fairly interesting development.

by Telconi » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:41 pm
Ngelmish wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554147818/california-moves-up-2020-primary-elections-to-march
So California really is pushing up it's primary for 2020. In practical terms, regardless of any stated or actual motives on the part of the legislators who voted for this, it's going to disproportionately favor whichever candidates are the strongest fundraisers. California is expensive as hell to compete in. Conversely this may make Iowa and New Hampshire even more crucial than they usually are for lesser known candidates, or candidates who simply aren't as flush with cash. If they can't notch a win in one or both of those (South Carolina remains an asterisk in this process of course, because it'll likely vault a different candidate to the forefront) they won't have the sheer financial muscle to even seriously compete in California.
Added to that the high probability that the initial primary will be very crowded, to the point that the winner of the Iowa caucus will perhaps need a threshold as low as say, 20% to come in first, the prospect that we'll get at least one long-shot candidate in a good place to be seriously considered, is actually higher than it might otherwise be. A fairly interesting development.

by Ngelmish » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:54 pm
Corrian wrote:Ngelmish wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554147818/california-moves-up-2020-primary-elections-to-march
So California really is pushing up it's primary for 2020. In practical terms, regardless of any stated or actual motives on the part of the legislators who voted for this, it's going to disproportionately favor whichever candidates are the strongest fundraisers. California is expensive as hell to compete in. Conversely this may make Iowa and New Hampshire even more crucial than they usually are for lesser known candidates, or candidates who simply aren't as flush with cash. If they can't notch a win in one or both of those (South Carolina remains an asterisk in this process of course, because it'll likely vault a different candidate to the forefront) they won't have the sheer financial muscle to even seriously compete in California.
Added to that the high probability that the initial primary will be very crowded, to the point that the winner of the Iowa caucus will perhaps need a threshold as low as say, 20% to come in first, the prospect that we'll get at least one long-shot candidate in a good place to be seriously considered, is actually higher than it might otherwise be. A fairly interesting development.
Not sure if I really approve of this, since it just feels off to me.
Telconi wrote:Ngelmish wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554147818/california-moves-up-2020-primary-elections-to-march
So California really is pushing up it's primary for 2020. In practical terms, regardless of any stated or actual motives on the part of the legislators who voted for this, it's going to disproportionately favor whichever candidates are the strongest fundraisers. California is expensive as hell to compete in. Conversely this may make Iowa and New Hampshire even more crucial than they usually are for lesser known candidates, or candidates who simply aren't as flush with cash. If they can't notch a win in one or both of those (South Carolina remains an asterisk in this process of course, because it'll likely vault a different candidate to the forefront) they won't have the sheer financial muscle to even seriously compete in California.
Added to that the high probability that the initial primary will be very crowded, to the point that the winner of the Iowa caucus will perhaps need a threshold as low as say, 20% to come in first, the prospect that we'll get at least one long-shot candidate in a good place to be seriously considered, is actually higher than it might otherwise be. A fairly interesting development.
Dems: "Get money out of politics!"
Also Dems: If you're not literally rolling in cash, you can't have the biggest blue state.

by Telconi » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:59 pm
Ngelmish wrote:Corrian wrote:Not sure if I really approve of this, since it just feels off to me.
I was initially opposed to this, and I still lean against it, but after further reflection I don't think it changes the dynamic that substantially. The first couple of contests are still the only real chance for breakout candidacies or for known, but disregarded, quantities to punch above their weight. Primaries, by nature, cull quickly.Telconi wrote:
Dems: "Get money out of politics!"
Also Dems: If you're not literally rolling in cash, you can't have the biggest blue state.
I mean, California is enormous and has multiple, expensive media markets. Without structural campaign reforms, including, yes, campaign finance, it's impossible to take advantage of that without a lot of money. It's not necessarily hypocritical. That said, I would be very interested to know whose idea this originally was, a megadonor, a California politician who wants to run for president, or state legislators who sincerely think that California deserves a bigger imprint on the state of the national party.

by Ngelmish » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:37 pm
Telconi wrote:Ngelmish wrote:
I was initially opposed to this, and I still lean against it, but after further reflection I don't think it changes the dynamic that substantially. The first couple of contests are still the only real chance for breakout candidacies or for known, but disregarded, quantities to punch above their weight. Primaries, by nature, cull quickly.
I mean, California is enormous and has multiple, expensive media markets. Without structural campaign reforms, including, yes, campaign finance, it's impossible to take advantage of that without a lot of money. It's not necessarily hypocritical. That said, I would be very interested to know whose idea this originally was, a megadonor, a California politician who wants to run for president, or state legislators who sincerely think that California deserves a bigger imprint on the state of the national party.
Well, it would be interesting to learn who, but it rwally doesn't matter IMO. A bad idea I's bad no matter who's mind it sprang from.

by Hittanryan » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:22 pm
Ngelmish wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554147818/california-moves-up-2020-primary-elections-to-march
So California really is pushing up it's primary for 2020. In practical terms, regardless of any stated or actual motives on the part of the legislators who voted for this, it's going to disproportionately favor whichever candidates are the strongest fundraisers. California is expensive as hell to compete in. Conversely this may make Iowa and New Hampshire even more crucial than they usually are for lesser known candidates, or candidates who simply aren't as flush with cash. If they can't notch a win in one or both of those (South Carolina remains an asterisk in this process of course, because it'll likely vault a different candidate to the forefront) they won't have the sheer financial muscle to even seriously compete in California.
Added to that the high probability that the initial primary will be very crowded, to the point that the winner of the Iowa caucus will perhaps need a threshold as low as say, 20% to come in first, the prospect that we'll get at least one long-shot candidate in a good place to be seriously considered, is actually higher than it might otherwise be. A fairly interesting development.

by Major-Tom » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:24 pm
MERIZoC wrote:http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article175422391.html?anf=TOP_STORIES
On the economy, many black voters see little difference between GOP, Dems

by Tahar Joblis » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:41 pm
Ngelmish wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554147818/california-moves-up-2020-primary-elections-to-march
So California really is pushing up it's primary for 2020. In practical terms, regardless of any stated or actual motives on the part of the legislators who voted for this, it's going to disproportionately favor whichever candidates are the strongest fundraisers. California is expensive as hell to compete in. Conversely this may make Iowa and New Hampshire even more crucial than they usually are for lesser known candidates, or candidates who simply aren't as flush with cash. If they can't notch a win in one or both of those (South Carolina remains an asterisk in this process of course, because it'll likely vault a different candidate to the forefront) they won't have the sheer financial muscle to even seriously compete in California.
Added to that the high probability that the initial primary will be very crowded, to the point that the winner of the Iowa caucus will perhaps need a threshold as low as say, 20% to come in first, the prospect that we'll get at least one long-shot candidate in a good place to be seriously considered, is actually higher than it might otherwise be. A fairly interesting development.

by Collatis » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:00 pm
Hittanryan wrote:Ngelmish wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554147818/california-moves-up-2020-primary-elections-to-march
So California really is pushing up it's primary for 2020. In practical terms, regardless of any stated or actual motives on the part of the legislators who voted for this, it's going to disproportionately favor whichever candidates are the strongest fundraisers. California is expensive as hell to compete in. Conversely this may make Iowa and New Hampshire even more crucial than they usually are for lesser known candidates, or candidates who simply aren't as flush with cash. If they can't notch a win in one or both of those (South Carolina remains an asterisk in this process of course, because it'll likely vault a different candidate to the forefront) they won't have the sheer financial muscle to even seriously compete in California.
Added to that the high probability that the initial primary will be very crowded, to the point that the winner of the Iowa caucus will perhaps need a threshold as low as say, 20% to come in first, the prospect that we'll get at least one long-shot candidate in a good place to be seriously considered, is actually higher than it might otherwise be. A fairly interesting development.
To play devil's advocate, why should Iowa and New Hampshire get to decide for the rest of the country? The field always narrows after the first few states; by the time the last few states hold their primaries they get virtually no say at all who gets to lead each party.
The US campaign cycle is absurdly long anyway. One of the reason there's so much money in US politics is that our campaign season never ends. Candidates and incumbents alike are always fundraising to buy millions of dollars worth of ad slots on TV. We really don't need six months to pick a Presidential candidate.
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
by Corrian » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:06 pm
Tahar Joblis wrote:The Democratic primary is not winner-take-all, so California isn't going to step in and end the contest early. California moving earlier makes for more front-loading.
IMO, it will balance the calendar more, geographically. The 2008 primary had a lot of Southern states lined up early in the contest and a lot of Western states late in the game.

by Napkiraly » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:32 pm
Kamala Harris is one of the worst picks the Democrats could go for. Also not going to lie, I can't trust her as much on account of her not being a mother. Though that goes for any childless politician tbf.Corrian wrote:Tahar Joblis wrote:The Democratic primary is not winner-take-all, so California isn't going to step in and end the contest early. California moving earlier makes for more front-loading.
IMO, it will balance the calendar more, geographically. The 2008 primary had a lot of Southern states lined up early in the contest and a lot of Western states late in the game.
I dunno, though. I kinda feel like a big state like that shouldn't have a balance towards one person early.
Like, say, Kamala Harris.

by Collatis » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:34 pm
Napkiraly wrote:Kamala Harris is one of the worst picks the Democrats could go for. Also not going to lie, I can't trust her as much on account of her not being a mother. Though that goes for any childless politician tbf.Corrian wrote:I dunno, though. I kinda feel like a big state like that shouldn't have a balance towards one person early.
Like, say, Kamala Harris.
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders

by Senkaku » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:35 pm
by Corrian » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:12 am
Napkiraly wrote:Kamala Harris is one of the worst picks the Democrats could go for. Also not going to lie, I can't trust her as much on account of her not being a mother. Though that goes for any childless politician tbf.Corrian wrote:I dunno, though. I kinda feel like a big state like that shouldn't have a balance towards one person early.
Like, say, Kamala Harris.

by Albrenia » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:34 am

by Valrifell » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:09 am
Albrenia wrote:From a practicality point of view, a Christian candidate seems most logical, since going with an Atheist is targeted by 'faithless' and 'godless' attacks, and other religions would get even worse.
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