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by Purpelia » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:57 pm
by Gallia- » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:04 pm
Allanea wrote:Gallia- wrote:
Interchangeable parts is just "writing stuff down".
If you can "make" a "steam engine" in the Bronze Age, you can do anything else, because your mindset is so alien to actual Bronze Age people that you're already at the point where you should simply know to write things down. From there you can start developing a patent law system, exchanging ideas or information for money or goods or services, or possibly having a primitive state monopolize information, since the only method of information exchange until the 19th century was by word of mouth and hard copies. The former is difficult to control directly but the latter is easy to control, and without the latter you can't make the former work to any real extent.
The only thing that the 19th century hinged was how people viewed the world and formulated ideas, which was a direct result of the Enlightenment. Everything else fell into place accordingly.
Thank you Gallia!
I was trying to make this very point but I didn't do so correctly.
The problem with 99% of this 'alternate history' stuff that people forget that there's a vast titanic gap between what could have feasibly been done by a modern person who had access to the skill and tools from a given era, and what actual people in the era could have done.
There is some archaeological evidence that really primitive steam engines existed long before they became commonly used for propulsion, and primitive rail existed long before it was fitted with steam. But using the above as an excuse to go 'what is the wonkiest tech I could have physically made with the technology of the era' is not really how anything works.
by Allanea » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:10 pm
It's not really some evidence. We have literal Bronze Age batteries and documentation of primitive steam engines. Which is to say, short of actually seeing Heron building his steam engine, it's about as good as we're going to get that the concept of "boil steam, turn thing" existed.
by Allanea » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:13 pm
by Gallia- » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:21 pm
Allanea wrote:An actual time traveler - that's to say, not some random dude tragically cast back through time without preparation, but a deliberate time traveler, might be able to do a decent job of it. Or a group of people, like in the Eric Flint novels.
But this hinges on the fact that he possesses a mindset and ideas that didn't exist at the time.
by Allanea » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:32 pm
by Gallia- » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:38 pm
Allanea wrote:But what's certain
Allanea wrote:What's however perfectly certain is that we can't just go 'China industrializes way early' without some serious explanations.
by Purpelia » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:42 pm
Allanea wrote:An actual time traveler - that's to say, not some random dude tragically cast back through time without preparation, but a deliberate time traveler, might be able to do a decent job of it. Or a group of people, like in the Eric Flint novels.
But this hinges on the fact that he possesses a mindset and ideas that didn't exist at the time.
by Gallia- » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:44 pm
by Allanea » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:45 pm
Why do you put words in people's mouths? Why is that the only way you can support your arguments? I literally said this entire statement, after all, so I'm not sure where you're getting the opposite from.
by Purpelia » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:45 pm
Gallia- wrote:The Song Dynasty's problem was the opposite: It was producing so much food that it had no need to industrialize.
by Allanea » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:46 pm
After all, the last time that time travelers tried to teach ancient people things, it turned out it was better to just shoot them with Maxim guns, or chop off their hands, or whatever. You got what you wanted in the most expeditious manner and least fuss. Much easier than teaching people stuck in the past the ways of the future, since that requires both knowing two forms of the present and knowing them well enough to teach. An impossible task.
by The Akasha Colony » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:09 pm
Purpelia wrote:Gallia- wrote:The Song Dynasty's problem was the opposite: It was producing so much food that it had no need to industrialize.
Thing is, could they have kept producing it if a large portion of their population was removed from farming? And I think that the answer is no simply because of how labor intensive medieval farming is.
by Kazarogkai » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:36 pm
by Gallia- » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:46 pm
Kazarogkai wrote:The ultimate idea behind AH is that history is not deterministic
by Gallia- » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:26 pm
by ValkyRusia » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:56 pm
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:09 pm
ValkyRusia wrote:Question flying aircraft carriers.....possible by late WW2 ?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5b/23/f6/5b23 ... ppelin.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0a/3a/8e/0a3a ... ppelin.jpg
by The Akasha Colony » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:10 pm
ValkyRusia wrote:Question flying aircraft carriers.....possible by late WW2 ?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5b/23/f6/5b23 ... ppelin.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0a/3a/8e/0a3a ... ppelin.jpg
by Kassaran » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:13 pm
ValkyRusia wrote:Question flying aircraft carriers.....possible by late WW2 ?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5b/23/f6/5b23 ... ppelin.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0a/3a/8e/0a3a ... ppelin.jpg
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.
"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
by Chinese Peoples » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:18 pm
by Allanea » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:21 pm
Chinese Peoples wrote:Should we hand out laptops to our soldiers?
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