Catalonia Megathread: Should Catalonia Separate From Spain?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/28/un-rights-experts-criticise-spanish-efforts-to-block-catalan-vote

UN rights experts criticize Spain over response.

The UN has nothing to talk about anything.

[Pasong Tirad]

Oh okay so it's technically not genocide because you're not going to kill them all, you're just going to crush some of them along with their independence movement. Your loathing of the right to self-determination irks me, Therm. IRKS ME.

Not my problem. Self-determination is really stupid.

It really isn't.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh okay so it's technically not genocide because you're not going to kill them all, you're just going to crush some of them along with their independence movement. Your loathing of the right to self-determination irks me, Therm. IRKS ME.

Not my problem. Self-determination is really stupid.

Well, self-determination is not stupid.

It's just that Catalonia doesn't deserve it. They sealed their fate when they joined the Spanish nation.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Not my problem. Self-determination is really stupid.

It really isn't.

Whether it is or it isn't is irrelevant to the fact that Catalonia simply is doing much ado about nothing.

They don't deserve to be given any right of self-determination as a province of Spain.

[Thermodolia]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/28/un-rights-experts-criticise-spanish-efforts-to-block-catalan-vote

UN rights experts criticize Spain over response.

What is the UN going to do write a strongly worded letter?

[Pasong Tirad]

It really isn't.

Whether it is or it isn't is irrelevant to the fact that Catalonia simply is doing much ado about nothing.

They don't deserve to be given any right of self-determination as a province of Spain.

Oh well I've heard that line before. I feel like it's part of my country's collective unconscious that we're all yearning to return into the arms of the Spanish Motherland.

In any case, whether or not they deserve the right to self-determination is debatable (I personally believe they do), but whether or not they do I feel like Catalonian independence is already being guaranteed, thanks in part to Madrid helping inflame tensions with their heavy-handed approach. They may be able to delay it - for years, even - but it feels like a damned if you do situation for Madrid.

[Aellex]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/28/un-rights-experts-criticise-spanish-efforts-to-block-catalan-vote

UN rights experts criticize Spain over response.

What is the UN going to do write a strongly worded letter?

Oh damn sure they will, and then if even such extremities aren't enough, then they will sternly admonish the Spanish government in a respectful tone! Ha! That will show them!

[Thermodolia]

What is the UN going to do write a strongly worded letter?

Oh damn sure they will, and then if even such extremities aren't enough, then they will sternly admonish the Spanish government in a respectful tone! Ha! That will show them!

After a strong finger wagging the Spanish government will not dare cross the UN again!

[Principat de Catalunya Lliure]

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Page ... 6&LangID=E

Spain must respect fundamental rights in response to Catalan referendum, UN rights experts

GENEVA (28 September 2017) - UN experts* have called on the Spanish authorities to ensure that measures taken ahead of the Catalan referendum on 1 October do not interfere with the fundamental rights to freedom of expression, assembly and association, and public participation.

The Catalan government has scheduled a referendum on independence for the autonomous region for 1 October. However, the Constitutional Court of Spain decided on 6 September that the referendum would be unconstitutional.

“Regardless of the lawfulness of the referendum, the Spanish authorities have a responsibility to respect those rights that are essential to democratic societies,” the experts said.

Since the ruling, hundreds of thousands of Catalans have taken to the streets in protests. Tensions have escalated, with the authorities searching print houses and seizing referendum material. Websites have been blocked, and political meetings stopped.

Politicians have been arrested, and leaders of the mass protests have been charged with sedition, a crime which carries a maximum sentence of 15 years imprisonment.

“The measures we are witnessing are worrying because they appear to violate fundamental individual rights, cutting off public information and the possibility of debate at a critical moment for Spain’s democracy.”

On 21 September, more than 4,000 police officers were deployed to the autonomous region, with an order from the Government to “act in case the illegal referendum takes place”.

“We are concerned that this order and the accompanying rhetoric may heighten tensions and social unrest,” the experts said.

“We urge all parties to exercise the utmost restraint and avoid violence of any kind to ensure peaceful protests in the coming days”, they concluded.

The experts have been in contact with the government of Spain concerning the situation.

WE WILL VOTE

[United States of Red Dawn]

Oh okay so it's technically not genocide because you're not going to kill them all, you're just going to crush some of them along with their independence movement. Your loathing of the right to self-determination irks me, Therm. IRKS ME.

Not my problem. Self-determination is really stupid.

Self-determination and cultural independence, as much as possible, is beautiful. I think anything else is tyranny.

[MERIZoC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/28/un-rights-experts-criticise-spanish-efforts-to-block-catalan-vote

UN rights experts criticize Spain over response.

What is the UN going to do write a strongly worded letter?

People like you only put emphasis on force and don't seem to be aware that the world isn't just tanks and guns I wonder what part of your background could possibly cause that....

[Thermodolia]

What is the UN going to do write a strongly worded letter?

People like you only put emphasis on force and don't seem to be aware that the world isn't just tanks and guns I wonder what part of your background could possibly cause that....

Maybe because force actually works? Unlike strongly worded letters and pretty pleases. The UN is basically a do not step on the grass sign. The UN by itself can't do anything to enforce its mandates. It's up to the nations of the world to enforce the UN mandates.

[MERIZoC]

People like you only put emphasis on force and don't seem to be aware that the world isn't just tanks and guns I wonder what part of your background could possibly cause that....

Maybe because force actually works? Unlike strongly worded letters and pretty pleases. The UN is basically a do not step on the grass sign. The UN by itself can't do anything to enforce its mandates. It's up to the nations of the world to enforce the UN mandates.

Spain, like any other country, relies on diplomatic relations, and having a good standing on the world stage. It helps you with trade, diplomacy, and a good deal other things. As Israel can tell you, violating UN wishes and waging war against an occupied territory (which Catalonia would be if it chose to secede and Spain invaded) can cause you some problems on the global level.

These moves by the government are extremely rash, and your bravado about "sending in tanks to crush them" is boneheaded and irrelevant. Nobody disputes that a Spanish army could occupy Catalonia. It would still be a disaster for everyone.

[Thermodolia]

Maybe because force actually works? Unlike strongly worded letters and pretty pleases. The UN is basically a do not step on the grass sign. The UN by itself can't do anything to enforce its mandates. It's up to the nations of the world to enforce the UN mandates.

Spain, like any other country, relies on diplomatic relations, and having a good standing on the world stage. It helps you with trade, diplomacy, and a good deal other things. As Israel can tell you, violating UN wishes and waging war against an occupied territory (which Catalonia would be if it chose to secede and Spain invaded) can cause you some problems on the global level.

These moves by the government are extremely rash, and your bravado about "sending in tanks to crush them" is boneheaded and irrelevant. Nobody disputes that a Spanish army could occupy Catalonia. It would still be a disaster for everyone.

So far nobody important gives a shit what Spain does. All of NATO agrees that it's an internal matter and Spain can deal with it however they want

[MERIZoC]

Spain, like any other country, relies on diplomatic relations, and having a good standing on the world stage. It helps you with trade, diplomacy, and a good deal other things. As Israel can tell you, violating UN wishes and waging war against an occupied territory (which Catalonia would be if it chose to secede and Spain invaded) can cause you some problems on the global level.

These moves by the government are extremely rash, and your bravado about "sending in tanks to crush them" is boneheaded and irrelevant. Nobody disputes that a Spanish army could occupy Catalonia. It would still be a disaster for everyone.

So far nobody important gives a shit what Spain does. All of NATO agrees that it's an internal matter and Spain can deal with it however they want

I cannot imagine that will remain the same if we somehow end up with 1936 part deux

[Chestaan]

People like you only put emphasis on force and don't seem to be aware that the world isn't just tanks and guns I wonder what part of your background could possibly cause that....

Maybe because force actually works? Unlike strongly worded letters and pretty pleases. The UN is basically a do not step on the grass sign. The UN by itself can't do anything to enforce its mandates. It's up to the nations of the world to enforce the UN mandates.

Sooo Catalans should rise up in arms against the central government?

[Thermodolia]

So far nobody important gives a shit what Spain does. All of NATO agrees that it's an internal matter and Spain can deal with it however they want

I cannot imagine that will remain the same if we somehow end up with 1936 part deux

Francoist forever!!

[Thermodolia]

Maybe because force actually works? Unlike strongly worded letters and pretty pleases. The UN is basically a do not step on the grass sign. The UN by itself can't do anything to enforce its mandates. It's up to the nations of the world to enforce the UN mandates.

Sooo Catalans should rise up in arms against the central government?

Nope, well not if they want to give me a reason to support a NATO liberation

[Publica]

Sooo Catalans should rise up in arms against the central government?

Nope, well not if they want to give me a reason to support a NATO liberation

So, you only agree with force if it is exerted in a direction you favour?

[United States of Red Dawn]

Sooo Catalans should rise up in arms against the central government?

Nope, well not if they want to give me a reason to support a NATO liberation

Why would anyone care if a region in any nation decides to go it's own way if it's done peacefully?

[Chestaan]

Nope, well not if they want to give me a reason to support a NATO liberation

Why would anyone care if a region in any nation decides to go it's own way if it's done peacefully?

See now that really is the ultimate question.

[MERIZoC]

Nope, well not if they want to give me a reason to support a NATO liberation

So, you only agree with force if it is exerted in a direction you favour?

It's a nice soldier's fantasy about wanton violence.

[Soviet-mongol]

LATEST NEWS

TRUMP SAID TODAY...

“I really think the people of Catalonia would stay with Spain. I think it would be foolish not to.”

(Image)

Mwgahahaha

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain ... C12QF?il=0

Ethnic Catalans are minority in Catalonia. The majority are descendants of Spanish immigrants from the 60s and 70s. This fact makes harder for the Independence movement as the spanish immigrants do not wish to be cut off from the homeland.

[Thermodolia]

Nope, well not if they want to give me a reason to support a NATO liberation

So, you only agree with force if it is exerted in a direction you favour?

Doesn't everyone?

[Publica]

So, you only agree with force if it is exerted in a direction you favour?

Doesn't everyone?

No, most people use force as a last resort, and don't agree with its use except in specific circumstances.