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by Warden Roavin » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:59 pm
by Tim-Opolis » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:07 pm
Warden Roavin wrote:I would like to point out that Common-Sense Politics altogether ignored my request for any indications that his claims are true.
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Solorni » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:16 pm
by Consular » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:34 pm
Solorni wrote:It seems like TGW is the new UDL; warts and all.
by Aexnidaral » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:21 pm
Solorni wrote:I'm not happy that Donald Trump's success irl has caused NS politicians to imitate some of his tactics like calling everything that they do not agree with "fake news".
by Vaculatestar64 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:27 pm
Solorni wrote:I'm not happy that Donald Trump's success irl has caused NS politicians to imitate some of his tactics like calling everything that they do not agree with "fake news".
by Brunhizzle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:38 pm
Tim-Opolis wrote:Warden Roavin wrote:I would like to point out that Common-Sense Politics altogether ignored my request for any indications that his claims are true.
The problem with peddling fake news is you can't uphold the lies once asked about it.
I'm sure we'll get a blustering speech full of rhetoric soon.
by Isaris » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Kylia Quilor wrote:Some Thoughts wrote:Look at who's getting the most benefit here? The New Pacific Order.
I would say they're influencing Europeia at this moment so that they can lure The South Pacific to their side. At that point, The West Pacific, The East Pacific, the South Pacific, and Balder would be on their side, not including Lazarus, which I'm currently not exactly sure if the Undead Dominion is really ok with the NPO. However, that would make The North Pacific, the NPO's greatest enemy, along with Osiris, be the only major GCRs that are actually against/unfriendly to the NPO.
The NPO is manipulating Europeia?
That is even sillier than Glen's Rahlspiracy in the Lazarus mess.
by Kylia Quilor » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:45 pm
by Warden Roavin » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:40 pm
Brunhizzle wrote:Tim-Opolis wrote:The problem with peddling fake news is you can't uphold the lies once asked about it.
I'm sure we'll get a blustering speech full of rhetoric soon.
Or, you know, he got offline six hours ago and hasn't had the opportunity to be online since.
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by The Noble Thatcherites » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:17 am
No one is happy with the lies to begin with. All of this is such bologna...Solorni wrote:I'm not happy that Donald Trump's success irl has caused NS politicians to imitate some of his tactics like calling everything that they do not agree with "fake news".
Kanglia wrote:Thatcher. Wants. As. Little. To. Do. With. You. All. As. Possible.
Résumé
The Union of Democratic States
Citizen and Founder
Prime Minister (x1)
Motion(s) Passed (x15)
Ambassador (x21)
Publisher for The Union Post (x5)
Constitutional Framer (x4)
The Free Nations Region
Citizen and Legislator
Justice (x1)
Motion(s) Passed (1x)
The Allied States
Citizen
Senator (x1)
FORGE
Representative (x4)
Chancellor (x1)
ITDA
Founder
Representative (x1)
Secretary General (x1)
Charter Author (x2)
Court of International Law and Justice
Foreign Affairs Justice (x1)
Europeia
Citizen and Assemblyman (x1)
The South Pacific
Citizen
SPSF Recruit (x1)
by Unibot III » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:49 am
Common-Sense Politics wrote:I see the politics, but not the common sense.
You're better than that.If you recall the precise text of the Euro-TSP treaty, you'll note it was specifically designed as an anti-FRA, anti-MPA treaty. This shouldn't be surprising, Europeia went as far as to drop treaty negotiations with TRR during Sopo's administration in and around the same time as TSP-Euro treaty was drafted because TNI/LKE was at war with the FRA. Europeia's concern was not the "independence" or sovereign autonomy of game-created regions, it was the strategic containment of perceived political opposition (defenderdom, NPO.)
Of course I recall it. One of the central pillars of Europeia's worldview is the idea that strong bilateral relationships enrich communities and supra-regional alliances and organizations diminish them so, in a way, you're absolutely correct in asserting that it isn't surprising that we would put language like that in a treaty, especially when you consider that you and your associates have been so intent on turning TSP and other game-created communities into your personal play things for so many years. The "perceived political opposition" was surely that but was and is a direct, tangible threat to the "sovereign autonomy of game-created regions". That's a fact, Jack.That geopolitical strategy still remains at play for Europeia. This isn't about what's good for the South Pacific or any other GCR, this is about what is good for Europeia. Which perhaps shouldn't be surprising since that's the guiding principle of independentism.
What's good for the game community as a whole is good for Europeia. You don't have to believe it, and you assuredly won't, but strong and sovereign GCRs are something we who've paid attention for the last several years care very much about. You, your associates, and your successors however have again and again done your damnedest to undermine it. The guiding principle of INDEPENDENCE is to act in the interests of your community and your friends, rather than in the interest of pseudo-moralistic bullshit.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Cormactopia Prime » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:58 am
Unibot III wrote:Common-Sense Politics wrote:What's good for the game community as a whole is good for Europeia. You don't have to believe it, and you assuredly won't, but strong and sovereign GCRs are something we who've paid attention for the last several years care very much about. You, your associates, and your successors however have again and again done your damnedest to undermine it. The guiding principle of INDEPENDENCE is to act in the interests of your community and your friends, rather than in the interest of pseudo-moralistic bullshit.
Thank you for doing me the courtesy of not attempting to contradict me. Your maxim, "what is good for Europeia is good for all GCRs" is revealing and indeed, encapsulates the paternalistic and manipulative attitude that Europeia has always presented to GCRs: "choose us over them; we, and only we know what is good for you."
This isn't about "independence" or "autonomy" or freedom, it's about containment. You're not "Pro-GCR," you're Pro-Euro. In the case of TSP, it should come as no surprise that the motives of Euro-independents who profess self-interest are purely self-interested.
by Unibot III » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:17 am
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Kylia Quilor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:26 am
Unibot III wrote:I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.
by Canton Empire » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:27 am
Kylia Quilor wrote:Unibot III wrote:I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.
But that's still not what CSP said.
He said what is good for all of gameplay is good for Europeia - when Gameplay gains, Europeia gains, not the other way around. The statement can't just reordered to have the same meaning.
by Cormactopia Prime » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:28 am
Unibot III wrote:I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.
by Kylia Quilor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:30 am
Cormactopia Prime wrote:Unibot III wrote:I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.
That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.
by Canton Empire » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:32 am
Cormactopia Prime wrote:Unibot III wrote:I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.
That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.
by Kylia Quilor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:32 am
Canton Empire wrote:Cormactopia Prime wrote:That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.
No, there's not, but there's a flawed logic in saying that one sole ideology is "best" for the community. I think the diversity in alignment is what's best for the game community.
by Canton Empire » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:36 am
by Cormactopia Prime » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:36 am
Canton Empire wrote:Cormactopia Prime wrote:That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.
No, there's not, but there's a flawed logic in saying that one sole ideology is "best" for the community. I think the diversity in alignment is what's best for the game community.
by Kylia Quilor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:41 am
by Canton Empire » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:43 am
Kylia Quilor wrote:Canton Empire wrote:But if the entirety of GP were defenders there would be nothing to defend. Defenders wouldn't exist.
Please don't tell me they tried to say that.
Defenders like Unibot would love it if they didn't have to defend. They treat defending as a moral call to duty and action.
by Kylia Quilor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:53 am
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