by Blasted Craigs » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:16 am
by The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:21 am
by Blasted Craigs » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:39 am
The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia wrote:There is no racial based privilege, but there is more of a wealth privilege that affects society
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:39 am
by Senegalboy » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:47 am
Blasted Craigs wrote:The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia wrote:There is no racial based privilege, but there is more of a wealth privilege that affects society
My point exactly. White privilege is a synthetic social construct meant to divert the attention from the real advantage of economic class, so that instead of feeling guilty over their economic advantage, or being called out as being advantaged by society, the blame can instead be shifted to an entire race. And thus, one can call their race evil and be a good guy (on the right side of history per Academia).
And bonus, they are not called hypocrites for keeping all that money, and ignoring helping those in need.
You see, it is far, Far cheaper to help 12-13% of the population, as opposed to helping all 99%, since the other 66-67% do not need help anyways, since they have "white Privilege".
by Blasted Craigs » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 am
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Aaand here we go.
*ahem*
What we need to do is stop being a nation of assholes so caught up in party politics and selfish nonsense that we can't grasp that our nation has some serious problems that we ALL need to help address. We need to recognize that just because we don't see a problem in our everyday lives that this doesn't mean said problem does not exist. We need to recognize that not all of any one group can be painted with the same broad brush. We need to recognize that the sins of the past ought to be bloody well left there, and we need to be better people having learned from them, going forward - across the board. What we 'owe' one another is to respect one another, regardless of who we are, or our color, or status, or any of the rest, and start looking out for one another rather than looking for more ways to tear one another down or worse, 'putting/keeping people in their place'. We need to actually SOLVE the problems at hand rather than just give them air time and lip service. And if our leadership refuses to act, and do so in a timely manner, we need to remove them from office, and vote in people who will do the job, and do it right - regardless of ridiculous party lines and all the rest.
We need to clean up our police forces and judicial system. There is too much corruption, too much privatization, too much special interests interfering with actual justice being done, and far too many unjust laws on the books - or barring that, unjust execution of said laws. There is too much a lean towards the poor, the underprivileged, of minorities getting taken advantage of, under-represented, etc. And while yes, the flat-out numbers are clear in that more blacks are killed by other blacks in gun violence, this does NOT remove the very real problem of them being more likely to be profiled, or shot when it comes to police interaction. People are scared for a reason. We ought to change that. Police are supposed to be there to help the citizens - lets make that the norm rather than so many fearing them, and good cops paying the price for the bad reputation they've gotten on account of the unjust actions of others.
We need to clean up our entire government and how it works. This gerrymandering bs has got to go. The special interest donations etc, out. Just posted a story on FB about how Florida removed thousands of very ill children from a good insurance network to apparently 'pay back' GOP donations from other insurance agencies, who donated inordinately huge amounts compared to other states, and other parties. Unacceptable. We need to put limits on congressional terms. We need to enable the people to cast a vote of 'no confidence' or the like should we screw up and saddle ourselves with a representative, from the local gov on up to the top office in the land, who no longer represents us once the attain office. We need to be able to hold people in office accountable for their actions to the citizens they represent. And we need to cut out this bullshit two-party fiasco, as they're just two sides to the same dirty, self-interested coin.
We need to be better to one another. We need to educate one another on our differences, and be accepting that whether or not we happen to like one another, for whatever reason, that we have GOT to figure out how to co-exist in relative civility. We need to get rid of all the hate, all the violence. We need to learn that differences do not mean we're not all human. And we probably ought to do away with a great many specialized categories in our twisted law system by acknowledging that we are all human, and all worthy of equal treatment under law, regardless of those differences. Civility ought not to be too much to ask for in a supposedly civilized society.
Does any of this mean we have privileged people? Probably. Should that mean we ought to all stand and point and make that the focus of our anger? Probably not, imo. Far better to acknowledge that some of us are better off than others - for whatever reason. And that our differences have historically, and currently, meant differences in treatment, in access to services, in a number of things that ought to be changed. And that we would be far better off working together to sort it out rather than remain broken into warring camps wasting energy arguing whether or not any of the above is true, and simply resting on our various feelings of validation when our accusations seem to hold out. There's no solutions in that, only blame. And nothing is going to change if all we're accomplishing is keeping people angry at one another over it all, rather than actually getting something done about it. (And no, for those wondering, I am not blaming any one group for any of this. There's problems all around, to one degree or other.)
by Valrifell » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 am
Blasted Craigs wrote:The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia wrote:There is no racial based privilege, but there is more of a wealth privilege that affects society
My point exactly. White privilege is a synthetic social construct meant to divert the attention from the real advantage of economic class, so that instead of feeling guilty over their economic advantage, or being called out as being advantaged by society, the blame can instead be shifted to an entire race. And thus, one can call their race evil and be a good guy (on the right side of history per Academia).
And bonus, they are not called hypocrites for keeping all that money, and ignoring helping those in need.
You see, it is far, Far cheaper to help 12-13% of the population, as opposed to helping all 99%, since the other 66-67% do not need help anyways, since they have "white Privilege".
by Free Tristania » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:55 am
by Ifreann » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:58 am
Blasted Craigs wrote:Copy of a post I made, and to avoid derailing the post, decided to open a new thread to discuss.
Original post.
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You know, I really get tired of the "white privilege" argument. It's essentially boils down to...
Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP! You don't know how good you got it, so your opinion is ignored unless you agree with all the poor, unfortunate souls that have it worse than you! Admit you are evil, otherwise we cannot talk.
by Blasted Craigs » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:00 am
Senegalboy wrote:Blasted Craigs wrote:My point exactly. White privilege is a synthetic social construct meant to divert the attention from the real advantage of economic class, so that instead of feeling guilty over their economic advantage, or being called out as being advantaged by society, the blame can instead be shifted to an entire race. And thus, one can call their race evil and be a good guy (on the right side of history per Academia).
And bonus, they are not called hypocrites for keeping all that money, and ignoring helping those in need.
You see, it is far, Far cheaper to help 12-13% of the population, as opposed to helping all 99%, since the other 66-67% do not need help anyways, since they have "white Privilege".
i half agree you can't get a job because of your skin colour you can't pass exams with white skin like it will give him powers but sometimes with whites as the demographic majority they could be more biased towards other whites and also whites do not get the level of racism compared with ethnic minorities so they kind of do have a slight advantage but not to the scale as some people say
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:08 am
Blasted Craigs wrote:Well...I actually agree with you. My point is that the, IMHO, synthetic social construct of "white privilege" was created to do exactly what you are talking about, divide us. It is why blacks killed unlawfully by police are all over the news, and one has to search for news about whites killed in similar manner from local sources. The News is in the business of selling news, and is complicit in dividing us as a Nation.
Saying both sides were blameworthy in Charlottesville? They were. Only murder was the person that ran over the crowd, but both sides were looking for a fight. And representing these two groups as "two sides of America" as left versus right, is disingenuous. These are fringe elements, not representative of the left or right. But again, the mainstream news only cares about ratings, and seeks to divide us. Just like how the MSM has propped up, along with Academia, this synthetic social construct known as white privilege. It's all an attempt to divide us, and shut up the voices of the centrists, the majority of Americans.
by Aellex » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:11 am
by Valrifell » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:14 am
Aellex wrote:Tis a rather shit concept of pseudo "original guilt" made up by liberals to try and divert attention away from class issues and back to race ones so to further divide the populace.
It's bad and people who buy into it should feel bad.
by Union of Despotistan » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:07 am
by New haven america » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:18 am
by USS Monitor » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:45 am
Blasted Craigs wrote:Feeling accepted because of my race? Nope, often lived in minority heavy locations (Have always been poor), was like a single grain of rice in an otherwise colorful bowl, and often abused by , well, not racist (since one cannot be racist to a white person per Academia) but "prejudicist" teachers and administrative staff, including beatings when my mother had sent in a no paddling note beforehand.
by Chiggers » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:01 pm
by New Rogernomics » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:24 pm
by Nouveau Yathrib » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:24 pm
"After all," you say, "I might be a white dude, but the one-room apartment I live in bears a lot closer resemblance to the ghetto than the mansion Flavor Flav lives in. If you don't want me judging people based on the color of their skin, why are you judging me on mine? To say I have 'white privilege' is a cruel joke, considering that for lunch I ate a 'hamburger' that was a wad of ramen noodles between two slices of bread."
All of that is technically correct. And I completely get why a low-income, lonely white dude is sick to death of hearing about how his movies, video games, and jokes are racist or sexist or homophobic. The logic is almost impossible to argue with: "If their problems as women are on the level of getting Hollywood to cast a plus-size Wonder Woman, and my problems involve not being able to afford heat in the winter, then it's downright evil to belittle my real problems while demanding I worry about that trivial SJW Tumblr bullshit."
In other words, why can't we start treating each other like individuals based on our position in life, and just drop all of this race/gender stuff that just clouds the issue? Wouldn't that be the fastest way to make things better for everyone?
Sure, and we could totally do that, if we were merely people. The problem is that we can't just collectively agree to make the context of history go away, any more than a bunch of leaves can get together and decide that there is no tree; the roots of history are still feeding us. Blacks are still stuck in neighborhoods with terrible schools and no job opportunities where they're being groomed for a lifetime in the corrections system. Women who want to get jobs as software engineers will find themselves in offices that are 84 percent male.
So, while race is a social construct as are lots of gender roles*, that doesn't mean they're not real -- the systems we're living under today were all built with them in mind.
And if you are a white male in America, you're among the winningest of the winning tribes -- again, even if your own life is a disaster. This is why people say you have "privilege." It doesn't really refer to anything you have, but what you don't have. You may still get shot by a cop some day, but you won't get shot because you're white. As a male, your boss might be less likely to flirt with you, but will be more likely to take your input seriously. And so on.
Changing that doesn't mean they're winning, and you're losing. This isn't about you. There is no "you" at all, outside of this larger context. It's about continuing this winning streak humanity has been on, and trying to build a world in which everybody -- from the poor white dude in the trailer park to the black trans woman in Russia -- has the best possible chance to make something with their lives. We can disagree about how exactly to do that, but as for those people talking about the "good old days" and getting back to "traditional" values? The best thing I can say about them is that they can't possibly know what they're asking for.
by Aellex » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:35 pm
Valrifell wrote:Again, the idea itself has no such concept of original guilt. That was retroactively added in by political interest groups motivated by their insecurities.
by New Granadeseret » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:38 pm
by Shofercia » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:52 pm
Blasted Craigs wrote:Copy of a post I made, and to avoid derailing the post, decided to open a new thread to discuss.
Original post.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////
You know, I really get tired of the "white privilege" argument. It's essentially boils down to...
Shut up, shut up, SHUT UP! You don't know how good you got it, so your opinion is ignored unless you agree with all the poor, unfortunate souls that have it worse than you! Admit you are evil, otherwise we cannot talk.
Hell, do not take this as a personal attack, but to that logic I say...
Screw that. My opinion and logic is just as valid and worth as much as anyone else, irregardless of my skin tone.
And also, I have yet to experience the bliss of "White Privilege". Please, tell me how to apply for this grand status.
Money and opportunity given to me for being white? Nope, unemployed disabled vet, can't seem to get a job to save my life, live near destitute on my disability.
Free from discrimination? Nope, was often "Prejudiced" against when I was a correctional officer by my Captain before being fired for getting hurt, and hey, it was ok since he was black and I was white. (Including calling me cracker, accusing me of being racist even though I was accepted as non racist by my peers, it was a minority heavy department)
Not being watched while shopping? Nope, due to my balding head, and shaving it, I am often watched by store staff, since I look like a skinhead. Although slightly offensive, I can live with it.
Feeling accepted because of my race? Nope, often lived in minority heavy locations (Have always been poor), was like a single grain of rice in an otherwise colorful bowl, and often abused by , well, not racist (since one cannot be racist to a white person per Academia) but "prejudicist" teachers and administrative staff, including beatings when my mother had sent in a no paddling note beforehand.
So please, please tell me where the local "white Privilege" office is so I can apply for my whitey card, and cash in on these benefits.
Just because middle class and above want to feel less guilty for their economic privilege by blaming it on race, and shame their fellow white Americans for their made up white privilege to feel better about the benefits they have from being born wealthier, does not shame me. And if you let it shame you, and you feel shame for the color of your skin, something you have absolutely No freaking control over!
Well, your existence must be hell I guess. No wonder white apologists want all whites to die, if they live with shame and guilt like that due to something they cannot change.
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Well, my point stands. The claim of "White privilege" in an discussion, IMHO, is a cop out. It's an attempt to shut the other person up, to shame them into silence. I have had a difficult life, and have never experienced any white privilege. If anything, my life would have been easier if I was a minority. (More chances at advancement, better opportunities for help, support of those over me in an authoritarian sense, not having to prove I am not racist, having an organization to go to when I was discriminated against, etc)
And before people bring up the police, white people are often killed by police, it's just not reported near as much as it is not as divisive. Kelly Thomas for example, surrendered to police, never resisted, and was beaten savagely by officers crying for help from his dad until he died, over 9 minutes of pure unadulterated savage beating. Oh, and the officers were found not guilty of any wrongdoing, BTW.
An article that states more whites are killed by police than blacks. Again, not based on race, but economic class is the deciding factor of how likely one will survive an encounter with police.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/
Well, nationstates?
1-Is white privilege a cop out argument, real or not?
2-Are people confusing economic privilege/advantage with racial privilege/advantage?
3-If white privilege is, in your opinion real, what exactly is it? As in, what are some examples?
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My answers
1-It's a total cop out, and not completely true.
2-Totally, the entire point of my post.
3-It's not actually real. There is benefits to all races, and penalties. Depends on location and circumstance.
by The Conez Imperium » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:26 pm
by Valrifell » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:31 pm
Aellex wrote:Valrifell wrote:Again, the idea itself has no such concept of original guilt. That was retroactively added in by political interest groups motivated by their insecurities.
"If you're white, then you're inherently treated better by society by birth-right alone and you must atone for it by self-flagellating about it."
While the last part is optional, there is no denying that the first one can't be understood as anything but original sin and it's essentially what white privilege is about.
Much like the rest of identity politics, it's a bid to divide the populace into smaller sub-groups that are easier to rule over and exploit. That so much people buy into it actually baffle me.
by SD_Film Artists » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:59 pm
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