Confederate Statue Toppled in North Carolina

[Minzerland II]

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Just because they fought for the wrong side does not mean you shouldn't confer onto them the same respect for your own soldiers.

[Evacillian]

A.) We're not talking about a tombstone, it's a monumemt to a dude who wrote some stuff then was a mediocre president. Why not make it a museum about him?
B.) I would hope after I die I'm not considered some superhuman who did no wrong. It's dehumanizing
C.) I aint getting a tombstone, I'm getting my corpse dissolved

Burn me up and make me into a diamond. That'd be interesting. I'd finally be worth something.

Ouch(I think I winced). Don't worry you are loved

[Salus Maior]

Not the ideal way to do it, but progress is progress.

none of them will be punished for this act of public vandalism,

How do you know that?

I don't think it's progress for mobs to take things into their own hands.

Remember, there's another mob who thinks it's fine to murder black people and their sympathizers. What's their reaction going to be to this?

[Redsection]

It's disrespectful and a destruction of history. Maybe it's just because I have confederate ancestors ( white , and Cherokee ) that I feel this way but even if people disagree with the statue it doesn't deserve to be treated as such. It's part of our nations history whether people like it or not.

[Smoya]

This is just adding fuel to the fire and a very immature move. I empathize with those who feel hurt after the violence in Charlottesville and the hate preached by the racists organizing the movement, and if this is supposed to be some sort of response, that is shameful in itself.

[Neutraligon]

If on public property then they destroyed public property and should be charged with doing that.i I on private property and the people did not want their statue taken down then they should be charged with trespassing and vandalism. As to those who think the soldiers should have a memorial, they do have one, it is in Arlington cemetery and is very well done. If states wish the memorialize the soldiers from their own individuals states I think something similar, a somber memorial rather than celebrating what they fought for.

How old was that statue, the writing seems rather new?

[Ecelea]

I hope you're willing to have somebody write every wrong you ever committed in your life on your tombstone.

A.) We're not talking about a tombstone, it's a monumemt to a dude who wrote some stuff then was a mediocre president. Why not make it a museum about him?
B.) I would hope after I die I'm not considered some superhuman who did no wrong. It's dehumanizing
C.) I aint getting a tombstone, I'm getting my corpse dissolved

A.) Fine, your obituary, anything honoring your life.

B.) Yeah, but memorials aren't meant to chronicle someone's life, they're to celebrate their achievements, they're a positive thing. Are we going to go write Lincoln or Washington's mistakes on their monuments? It'd be a pretty shitty thing to do, really.

C.) Alright, I guess.

[Evacillian]

Not the ideal way to do it, but progress is progress.



How do you know that?

I don't think it's progress for mobs to take things into their own hands.

Remember, there's another mob who thinks it's fine to murder black people and their sympathizers. What's their reaction going to be to this?

Yup, once again- its just one big pissing competition

[Genivaria]

That would be an awesome statue. Hell, if I had money and connections, I'd commission it now.

That would be pretty awesome, especially if the scene(or something close enough) actually happened. The plaque can identify and describe the two soldiers and all us history nerds can geek out

I actually had the idea from that Ranger statue in Fall: NV.
I feel like something like this would've been far more likely if Lincoln survived, his damn replacement ended Reconstruction and allowed the Confederate sentiment to linger.

[Greater United American Republics]

Good Southern boys fought & died for an independent notion of home & heartland. most didn't give a shit about slavery. To be frank, the Robert E. Lee philosophy of "Home above nation" was a guiding light for many enlistees & even conscripts during the war in regard to motivation. Cultural incompatibility between North & South are more likely to be even better argument points for the war beginning. but, you know what sticks out?

CONFEDERATE VETERANS RECEIVED PENSIONS FROM THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AFTER THE WAR

They fought and died to maintain the institution of slavery. The Confederates made no fucking illusions about what they were founded on. Equally, I find this concept they were foghtong for 'state's rights when the soutn made egregious infringements on the North with such bullshittery as the Fugitive Slave Act and other such shit.

And the non slave owners fought because they were piss scared of a black uprising if the slaves were freed from servitude, and make no mistake about that.


There is no fucking honor in the treasonous hypocrisy of the Confederacy, amd they do not deserve even a shred of respect.

You've never been to the south, have you?

[The Widening Gyre]

I don't think it's progress for mobs to take things into their own hands.

Depends on the outcome. Certainly the Boston Tea Party lead to some 'progress'. What's to say this won't?

Remember, there's another mob who thinks it's fine to murder black people and their sympathizers. What's their reaction going to be to this?

Presumably violent. Are you arguing that their violence is morally equivalent to toppling a statue?

[Evacillian]

If on public property then they destroyed public property and should be charged with doing that.i I on private property and the people did not want their statue taken down then they should be charged with trespassing and vandalism. As to those who think the soldiers should have a memorial, they do have one, it is in Arlington cemetery and is very well done. If states wish the memorialize the soldiers from their own individuals states I think something similar, a somber memorial rather than celebrating what they fought for.

Very well said

[Genivaria]

They fought and died to maintain the institution of slavery. The Confederates made no fucking illusions about what they were founded on. Equally, I find this concept they were foghtong for 'state's rights when the soutn made egregious infringements on the North with such bullshittery as the Fugitive Slave Act and other such shit.

And the non slave owners fought because they were piss scared of a black uprising if the slaves were freed from servitude, and make no mistake about that.


There is no fucking honor in the treasonous hypocrisy of the Confederacy, amd they do not deserve even a shred of respect.

You've never been to the south, have you?

Once again, because if someone opposes the CSA they must be a Yankee.
-the lifelong Texan.

[Salus Maior]

They fought and died to maintain the institution of slavery. The Confederates made no fucking illusions about what they were founded on. Equally, I find this concept they were foghtong for 'state's rights when the soutn made egregious infringements on the North with such bullshittery as the Fugitive Slave Act and other such shit.

And the non slave owners fought because they were piss scared of a black uprising if the slaves were freed from servitude, and make no mistake about that.


There is no fucking honor in the treasonous hypocrisy of the Confederacy, amd they do not deserve even a shred of respect.

You've never been to the south, have you?

Do you have to go to Germany to realize Germany was wrong in WWII?

[Internationalist Bastard]

They fought and died to maintain the institution of slavery. The Confederates made no fucking illusions about what they were founded on. Equally, I find this concept they were foghtong for 'state's rights when the soutn made egregious infringements on the North with such bullshittery as the Fugitive Slave Act and other such shit.

And the non slave owners fought because they were piss scared of a black uprising if the slaves were freed from servitude, and make no mistake about that.


There is no fucking honor in the treasonous hypocrisy of the Confederacy, amd they do not deserve even a shred of respect.

You've never been to the south, have you?

Funny story, most of the South isn't in the CSA anymore

[Trotza]

I'm not responsible for other people. I can criticize whoever I want in what order I want, and these brain dead morons are first. Apologies if my horrifying white silence offended you.

Nobody here is suggesting that you're not free to criticize whoever you want in whatever order you want. But if Nazis murdering people fails to elicit outrage in you (or is secondary to the knocking down of a statue on the hierarchy of outrage for you), then maybe you need to reevaluate your morals.

No, I just don't feel the need to virtue signal to try and prove myself to others. Other's ambivalence or apathy has done just as much as your outrage, nothing.

[Neutraligon]

You've never been to the south, have you?

Funny story, most of the South isn't in the CSA anymore

Does it count if I was born in a slave state that stayed in the union?

[Ecelea]

I don't think it's progress for mobs to take things into their own hands.

Depends on the outcome. Certainly the Boston Tea Party lead to some 'progress'. What's to say this won't?

Remember, there's another mob who thinks it's fine to murder black people and their sympathizers. What's their reaction going to be to this?

Presumably violent. Are you arguing that their violence is morally equivalent to toppling a statue?

The KKK isn't quite equitable to this, agreed, but Westoboro Baptist Church is, very much. It's not violent to picket people's funerals, so is that morally okay now?

[GoldHaven]

I used to hold this position, but have since changed my mind entirely on the matter. I couldn't delete this post so this is just me changing it.

[AiliailiA]

Actually you know what kind of statue I would've preferred?
A statue of two soldiers one in Confederate uniform and the other in Union with their hats in hands and their other hands clasped together.
The idea being that they moved past it.

But no we can't have that I guess.

It's aspirational rather than commemorative, I find that somewhat contentious.
The North and the South didn't really "move past it" that well, and arguably they still haven't.

I prefer the earlier opinion:

You don't need a statue for that.

Honestly I fucking hate the CSA and everything it stands for, but I actually don't see anything wrong with a memorial for Confederate soldiers many of whom were conscripted against their will to fight for a rich man's war.

Both sides should remember the tragedy of war, and for the side which started it and lost it, to do so is admirable.

Quite the opposite of glorifying a war, which will necessarily engender triumphalism in the victors and resentment in the losers, remembering the tragedy of war and that both sides suffer in war promotes peace and reconciliation.

Now my head hurts from being too pompous and not breathing enough, and I'm taking a break

[Salus Maior]

Presumably violent. Are you arguing that their violence is morally equivalent to toppling a statue?

No, but they're going to react to this and it's going to be bad. Things are going to keep escalating.

And besides, the State can remove the statues on it's own through official process.

[Neutraligon]

I'm from the area, and I really don't agree with this. Don't get me wrong, the white supremacy riots of Charlottesville were truly wicked and in deservance of reprehension, but destroying monuments is destruction of our history, aswell as dishonorable to those that served. I completely oppose the confederacy, but this statue was a monument to those that served, not the confederacy. It's not like we admire the confederacy, or anything, we have monuments dedicated to those who served in WWI, WWII, and the Korean/Vietnam war, all in the same area too.

Do you know when that statue was built?

[Scomagia]

Remember, the law only exists to punish those you disagree with. When they break the law, they are criminal scum. When you break the law it is required extralegal action for the preservation of equality/democracy/whatever other ideological excuse you can muster.

This appears to be the general mindset behind the large majority of political movements now. Honestly, I hold no sympathy for anyone who considers themselves above the law.

You are dramatically overstating the prevalence of this kind of behavior. I believe the majority still recognizes that it is unacceptable to break the law for political reasons. It is disconcerting that a lot of folks do think breaking the law is acceptable for their ideology but those people are far from a majority.

[Seangoli]

They fought and died to maintain the institution of slavery. The Confederates made no fucking illusions about what they were founded on. Equally, I find this concept they were foghtong for 'state's rights when the soutn made egregious infringements on the North with such bullshittery as the Fugitive Slave Act and other such shit.

And the non slave owners fought because they were piss scared of a black uprising if the slaves were freed from servitude, and make no mistake about that.


There is no fucking honor in the treasonous hypocrisy of the Confederacy, amd they do not deserve even a shred of respect.

You've never been to the south, have you?

I don't give two shits when revisionistic apologists try their hardest to convince others they aren't racist. I equally give no level of shits complete false opinions coming from those in states which implemented Jim Crow laws. The Confederacy was founded on the principle of maintaining Slavery in perpetuity, which is known fact. They were fucking hypocrites on the concept of State's Rights, which is known fact. They started the damn war by attacking Fort Sumter. The motivations of the common soldier is also well fucking known, as they were rather colorful in their description on what they thought would happen if the blacks were freed.

What racists say in order to feel better about their racism is of no concern to me.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Funny story, most of the South isn't in the CSA anymore

Does it count if I was born in a slave state that stayed in the union?

No? I honestly am lost at that question. Doesn't change the fact that the Modern South is not the South during the civil war, or reconstruction, or Jim Crowe Era, or fuck 20 years ago