Trump MAGAthread VIII: Make the MAGAthread Great Again

[Geilinor]

Exactly where it is now, as the government doesn't have the right to levy taxes. The government has the power to levy taxes. An important distinction.

In which case, conscription still has nothing to do with peoples' rights. It's a government power.

The people can limit the government's powers if they choose to do so. The government has the power the people entrust in it.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

In which case, conscription still has nothing to do with peoples' rights. It's a government power.

One could argue conscription violates one's rights.

One could argue taxation does too.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

In which case, conscription still has nothing to do with peoples' rights. It's a government power.

The people can limit the government's powers if they choose to do so. The government has the power the people entrust in it.

This.

[Salus Maior]

In which case, conscription still has nothing to do with peoples' rights. It's a government power.

The people can limit the government's powers if they choose to do so. The government has the power the people entrust in it.

Well then, let me know when there's a strong enough movement to overturn conscription.

Either way, New Haven's point is still flawed.

[Ism]

One could argue conscription violates one's rights.

One could argue taxation does too.

Yes, but not to the same extent.

[Geilinor]

The people can limit the government's powers if they choose to do so. The government has the power the people entrust in it.

Well then, let me know when there's a strong enough movement to overturn conscription.

There was during the Vietnam War but it just isn't a relevant issue right now because we don't have it in effect.

[Ifreann]

Exactly where it is now, as the government doesn't have the right to levy taxes. The government has the power to levy taxes. An important distinction.

In which case, conscription still has nothing to do with peoples' rights. It's a government power.

It is a government power, but that doesn't mean it has nothing to do with people's rights.

As I said earlier, there is no right to serve in the military, but there is a right to be free from discrimination. Or at least, that would be considered a human right by quite a few people.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

One could argue taxation does too.

Yes, but not to the same extent.

It's to the same extent. Have a war? Sorry kiddo, here's a gun, make your country proud. Don't pay taxes? Off to the stocks with you.

[Salus Maior]

In which case, conscription still has nothing to do with peoples' rights. It's a government power.

It is a government power, but that doesn't mean it has nothing to do with people's rights.

As I said earlier, there is no right to serve in the military, but there is a right to be free from discrimination. Or at least, that would be considered a human right by quite a few people.

You don't want to start applying that to the draft though, it needs to be discriminate. Otherwise if we have a big enough war everyone in the country is going to be dragged to the front. You know, for equality.

Anyway, the military in general also needs to be able to discriminate. Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, an institution that's in charge of the life of our state and everyone in it, and if certain groups would not be effective in that role than the military should absolutely have the right to bar them or relegate them to certain roles that aren't as crucial like combat.

Not that I'm saying trans-people wouldn't be effective. But as a general principal one shouldn't be saying "these people should be in the military cause equality" because social equality doesn't exactly mean they'd be effective on the front lines.

[Ism]

Yes, but not to the same extent.

It's to the same extent. Have a war? Sorry kiddo, here's a gun, make your country proud. Don't pay taxes? Off to the stocks with you.

Taxes are a financial burden, nothing more. Conscription can get you killed. If you think those are equally serious, you should rethink your priorities.

[Proctopeo]

It's to the same extent. Have a war? Sorry kiddo, here's a gun, make your country proud. Don't pay taxes? Off to the stocks with you.

Taxes are a financial burden, nothing more. Conscription can get you killed. If you think those are equally serious, you should rethink your priorities.

To be fair, depending on the severity and type of tax, they can kill, you, too.

[Steffan]

Taxes are a financial burden, nothing more. Conscription can get you killed. If you think those are equally serious, you should rethink your priorities.

To be fair, depending on the severity and type of tax, they can kill, you, too.

Also, the paper cuts can kill too.

[Valrifell]

To be fair, depending on the severity and type of tax, they can kill, you, too.

Also, the paper cuts can kill too.

Anything can be lethal with enough creativity.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

It's to the same extent. Have a war? Sorry kiddo, here's a gun, make your country proud. Don't pay taxes? Off to the stocks with you.

Taxes are a financial burden, nothing more. Conscription can get you killed. If you think those are equally serious, you should rethink your priorities.

Invaders can kill you too.

[Crockerland]

Well, Christianity doesn't support terrorism, while Islam does, so probably not.

A lot of people have a lot of different ideas about just what Christian God does and does not want them to do. For more information on this topic, see the Christian Discussion Thread.

And... ? That doesn't change what the Bible objectively teaches, nor what the Quran objectively teaches.

Well, Christianity doesn't support terrorism, while Islam does, so probably not.

TIL the IRA weren't Christian.

Not an argument. The IRA have no Biblical basis for their actions and have no interest in spreading Christianity, but fighting another Christian-majority government for control of land. The IRA terrorize for Irish nationalism, not for Christianity, and their terror is never sanctioned by the Bible.

Well, Christianity doesn't support terrorism, while Islam does, so probably not.

The KKK and the Anti-balaka would like to talk to you.

Joke's on them, I don't talk to racists, nor to black people.

The KKK killed 3,960 people from the 1870s to the 1950s, while the Syrian Civil War, started by Muslim groups in the name of Islam, has killed 10 times that many people in a timespan around 1/16th the duration. And of course, obviously, the KKK's horrendous actions are not endorsed by Christianity.

The Anti-Balaka, on the other hand, are completely justified in their support for the democratically elected leader Francois Bozize and their quest to restore him to power, as well as their opposition to the Seleka terrorist group, but that also has nothing to do with Christianity.

Even if these actually were heinous ISIS-level terrorist organizations (they're not), that still wouldn't change the fact that many of the evil, despicable actions of the Islamic State are directly endorsed by Muhammad himself or other important figures in the Quran and/or the Hadith, including but not limited to slavery (which Muhammad personally took part in), rape (including child marriages), racketeering, murder, and arson/immolation, while such actions are not endorsed by the Bible.

I wasn't aware that serving in the military was a human right. I guess we should invade Iceland, since they are persecuting all of their citizens constantly by not having a military in the first place.

Well, if we go by that logic than we can also get rid of selective services/the draft.

After all, serving is a privilege, not a right, so you can't force people to do it.

Sounds good to me.

[Ifreann]

It is a government power, but that doesn't mean it has nothing to do with people's rights.

As I said earlier, there is no right to serve in the military, but there is a right to be free from discrimination. Or at least, that would be considered a human right by quite a few people.

You don't want to start applying that to the draft though, it needs to be discriminate. Otherwise if we have a big enough war everyone in the country is going to be dragged to the front. You know, for equality.

Anyway, the military in general also needs to be able to discriminate. Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, an institution that's in charge of the life of our state and everyone in it, and if certain groups would not be effective in that role than the military should absolutely have the right to bar them or relegate them to certain roles that aren't as crucial like combat.

When people talk about freedom from discrimination they mean discrimination based on sex or race or religion or what have you. No one, or no one worth taking seriously, at least, has a problem with discrimination based on ability. If someone was turned away from a recruitment office because they had no eyes, that would be fine. You need eyes for doing soldier-y things. Whereas if someone was turned away from a recruitment office because they're gay or black or a woman or a communist or transgender or Jewish, that would be a problem. People would object. Loudly.

Not that I'm saying trans-people wouldn't be effective. But as a general principal one shouldn't be saying "these people should be in the military cause equality" because social equality doesn't exactly mean they'd be effective on the front lines.

Social equality means they get the same shot at getting into the military as anyone else. If they can't cut it, they don't get in, same as anyone. If they can cut it, they get in, same as anyone. Equality.

---

A lot of people have a lot of different ideas about just what Christian God does and does not want them to do. For more information on this topic, see the Christian Discussion Thread.

And... ? That doesn't change what the Bible objectively teaches, nor what the Quran objectively teaches.

Briefly, what the various versions and translations of the Bible say is of limited relevance to what Christians believe.

[Aellex]

The Anti-Balaka, on the other hand, are completely justified in their support for the democratically elected leader Francois Bozize and their quest to restore him to power, as well as their opposition to the Seleka terrorist group, but that also has nothing to do with Christianity.

Funnily enough, most of them actually are animists and their very name "anti-ballaka" is a créole writing of "anti-balles AK"/"Anti-AK bullets" (AK as in AK 47) because of the grigris they wore that they think magically protect them from the bullets.

Buy yeah, I really don't see how one can call a majoritarily animist vigilante militia whose main goals always were to clear the roads from bandits and to support the legitimate president of being a Christian terrorist organisation.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Stephen Kinzer: Moscow is our friend. Honest.

Those who have gone full anti-Russia should take a look.

[The East Marches II]

You don't want to start applying that to the draft though, it needs to be discriminate. Otherwise if we have a big enough war everyone in the country is going to be dragged to the front. You know, for equality.

Anyway, the military in general also needs to be able to discriminate. Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, an institution that's in charge of the life of our state and everyone in it, and if certain groups would not be effective in that role than the military should absolutely have the right to bar them or relegate them to certain roles that aren't as crucial like combat.

When people talk about freedom from discrimination they mean discrimination based on sex or race or religion or what have you. No one, or no one worth taking seriously, at least, has a problem with discrimination based on ability. If someone was turned away from a recruitment office because they had no eyes, that would be fine. You need eyes for doing soldier-y things. Whereas if someone was turned away from a recruitment office because they're gay or black or a woman or a communist or transgender or Jewish, that would be a problem. People would object. Loudly.

Not that I'm saying trans-people wouldn't be effective. But as a general principal one shouldn't be saying "these people should be in the military cause equality" because social equality doesn't exactly mean they'd be effective on the front lines.

Social equality means they get the same shot at getting into the military as anyone else. If they can't cut it, they don't get in, same as anyone. If they can cut it, they get in, same as anyone. Equality.

Such a thing is impossible in a world where a desire for arbitrary numbers to match other arbitrary numbers exists in large quantities on one side. They will get and have gotten special treatment.

[Northern Davincia]

>"corporate police state"
>Libertarians
go home

For all of their wailing about government oppression, they either seem ignorant of, or actively embrace human rights oppressions by corporations. As if human suffering can be offset by massive profits.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

One could argue conscription violates one's rights.

One could argue taxation does too.

Thank you.

[The Serbian Empire]

Stephen Kinzer: Moscow is our friend. Honest.

Those who have gone full anti-Russia should take a look.

A country that does cyber attacks on the US is our friend? This seriously can't be happening can it?

[Gauthier]

Well, Christianity doesn't support terrorism, while Islam does, so probably not.

TIL the IRA weren't Christian.

It stands for Islamic Republican Army, silly.

[Washington Resistance Army]

TIL the IRA weren't Christian.

It stands for Islamic Republican Army, silly.

Sadly for you and Vass it would be pretty hard to say the IRA was a religiously motivated terror group. I mean, there's not exactly a verse in the Bible that says "Thou shalt kill the Anglo and unify Éire".

[The Flutterlands]

Stephen Kinzer: Moscow is our friend. Honest.

Those who have gone full anti-Russia should take a look.

A country that does cyber attacks on the US is our friend? This seriously can't be happening can it?

Well, he has a point that we shouldn't complain about alleged hacking too much because we hack elections too. It's like a kid who steals candy from others suddenly getting angry about his candy getting stolen. Does he really have the right to be angry about that? Sure two wrongs don't make a right, but still, serves that kid right. Now of course, I'm not talking about average Americans, but rather our Government...

[Ifreann]

Stephen Kinzer: Moscow is our friend. Honest.

Those who have gone full anti-Russia should take a look.

A country that does cyber attacks on the US is our friend? This seriously can't be happening can it?

Obviously parallel interests in Syria is all the foundation one needs for a lasting friendship with Russia, and any suggestion to the contrary is just lies from the rich political elites and their mainstream media collaborators.