UK Politics Thread VII: Wake me DUP inside [can't wake UUP]

[The Huskar Social Union]

I was gonna catch up from p60 of this thread but I've been working long hours lately and therefore ceebs. What did I miss?

HMS Vanguard vs Everyone else, maybe..... possibly.... idk Mk.III

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

It isn't.

You said "This is effectively what happened between the 16th and 19th centuries in Europe, in which the most anarcho-capitalist state, Great Britain, emerged as the most powerful and prestigious of multiple competing sovereigns."

For most of that period, Britain was mercantilist.

This is an extremely poor and inaccurate historical summary.

However it is besides the point. I only said that GB was the closest to anarcho-capitalism, not that it was anarcho-capitalist in every respect. What I said is true.

[The BlAAtschApen]

You said "This is effectively what happened between the 16th and 19th centuries in Europe, in which the most anarcho-capitalist state, Great Britain, emerged as the most powerful and prestigious of multiple competing sovereigns."

For most of that period, Britain was mercantilist.

This is an extremely poor and inaccurate historical summary.

However it is besides the point. I only said that GB was the closest to anarcho-capitalism, not that it was anarcho-capitalist in every respect. What I said is true.

Closer than the dutch? Please explain how

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

It's meaningless to say the state is a major or minor force, ever. The state is the victorious fighting men who set social conditions; it's always predominant by definition. What distinguishes the British state of 1870 from the British state of 2017 is that the British state of 1870 enforced more or less anarcho-capitalist laws while the British state of 2017 is more or less communist.

That only makes sense when you purport to be the inverse of communism. The UK is a fucking capitalist country, to say anything otherwise is ideologically contortionist bullshit.

The UK's called a capitalist country in contrast to the USSR and its allies. A comparison that was questionable at the time, but in any case has long since lost relevance even to our own time. What this comparison ignores is that the whole world was moving far left between 1917 and 1990, such that being less commie than the USSR wasn't identical to being a genuinely capitalist country.

The basis of this discussion, is to compare the UK now with the UK in 1870, or 1770. In the first place, as I have argued, the UK became a communist country in 1928 with the Representation of the People Act granting the vote to women and male state dependants. I have also argued that the communist institutions of the UK have chosen to retain some of the private property system. That is true. But with a fiat currency, 40-50% of spending directly controlled by the state, state veto on all land use, and detailed state direction of all industrial and most social processes through regulation, the UK is certainly more than half way to abolishing this. The UK would certainly be regarded in 1870 or 1770 as left-extremist state. If it's regarded as a capitalist country today, surely only by comparison to other far left states.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

This is an extremely poor and inaccurate historical summary.

However it is besides the point. I only said that GB was the closest to anarcho-capitalism, not that it was anarcho-capitalist in every respect. What I said is true.

Closer than the dutch? Please explain how

I'm not extremely familiar with the specifics of Dutch institutions. It's besides the point, though, since both countries were similarly governed and similarly successful.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

I've settled on my prefered mechanism of sortition/direct democracy for the british isles in a way that will confuse the fuck out of everyone and be suitably lulz worthy.

Firstly, the entire country is to be knighted except members of the house of commons. (You can, since Tony Benn kicked up a fuss, abdicate your title and run for the commons.)

Secondly, a big speech about the necessity of a Reaction to Liberal politics and the loss of the privileges of nobility, which is clearly ruining society and has led to degeneracy, followed by ammending the rules to empower the house of lords and remove the ability of the commons to force through legislation (Also noting that there's too many lords but so long as some are there to temper the riffraff, clearly things are fine, so how about some sort of sortition system among the nobles to represent their interests.)

Then we just continue as normal and act like a reactionary aristocracy. Populist politics takes on the sneering tone and rhetoric of aristocrats just to take the piss.

It also serves as a means of universal basic income for everyone, except those who want to be politicians. (Though at 300 a day, there might just be a little bit of inflation.)

Forcing professional politicians to call everyone "My lord" or "My lady" might also remind them of their place. The abdication of the title also serves the role of ceremonially placing themselves in a lower social class and servant position if they want to run for office in the first house. (The second house serving as a chamber to approve or reject laws passed by professional politicians.)

I'm also hoping this massive appropriation and transformation of reactionary politics into satire will somewhat cripple those tendencies in our political culture, muted though they are at this point.

This is actually a moderately interesting post, thank you.

A point of pedantry: a knight is a commoner and is properly addressed as "Sir [first name]", not "My Lord". You probably want to make everyone a viscount.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Size differences between the Belfast pride march yesterday and the Britain first march today in Belfast

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/handful-of-supporters-turn-up-for-britain-first-rally-in-belfast-1.3178488

50 turned up for the Britain First event, 30 for the "Loyalist Peoples Protest" event as well. I believe a few hundred showed up for the Anti Internment march from the Republican community, not too sure though.


The difference made me smile.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

It's not very surprising that the state-backed protest is more popular than the protest that is quasi-illegal.

[Fartsniffage]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 70546.html

[Ifreann]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/food-banks-hungry-children-summer-holidays-no-free-school-lunches-trussel-trust-low-supplies-a7870546.html

Clearly what's needed are more cuts to welfare spending.

[Vassenor]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/food-banks-hungry-children-summer-holidays-no-free-school-lunches-trussel-trust-low-supplies-a7870546.html

Clearly what's needed are more cuts to welfare spending.

And cuts to corporation tax.

[Eastfield Lodge]

That only makes sense when you purport to be the inverse of communism. The UK is a fucking capitalist country, to say anything otherwise is ideologically contortionist bullshit.

The UK's called a capitalist country in contrast to the USSR and its allies. A comparison that was questionable at the time, but in any case has long since lost relevance even to our own time. What this comparison ignores is that the whole world was moving far left between 1917 and 1990, such that being less commie than the USSR wasn't identical to being a genuinely capitalist country.

The basis of this discussion, is to compare the UK now with the UK in 1870, or 1770. In the first place, as I have argued, the UK became a communist country in 1928 with the Representation of the People Act granting the vote to women and male state dependants. I have also argued that the communist institutions of the UK have chosen to retain some of the private property system. That is true. But with a fiat currency, 40-50% of spending directly controlled by the state, state veto on all land use, and detailed state direction of all industrial and most social processes through regulation, the UK is certainly more than half way to abolishing this. The UK would certainly be regarded in 1870 or 1770 as left-extremist state. If it's regarded as a capitalist country today, surely only by comparison to other far left states.

If the UK is so far down the communist road, how come we still have a government? And private corporations? And private ownership?

[Fartsniffage]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/food-banks-hungry-children-summer-holidays-no-free-school-lunches-trussel-trust-low-supplies-a7870546.html

Clearly what's needed are more cuts to welfare spending.

Charities will step in and pick up the burden.

Wait...

[Ifreann]

Clearly what's needed are more cuts to welfare spending.

Charities will step in and pick up the burden.

Wait...

These charities will just have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or at least make some boot soup.

[Fartsniffage]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40826062

How is this going to fuck us over? I'm sure it will but I can't think how just now.

[Dooom35796821595]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40826062

How is this going to fuck us over? I'm sure it will but I can't think how just now.

Probably the small print that allows GCHQ to make a copy of your data before deleting it.

[Chestaan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40826062

How is this going to fuck us over? I'm sure it will but I can't think how just now.

Could it possibly be abused to bury stories that would be in the public interest?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Britain first has set itself up on the registry in NI to run for office in elections here. Hope they get humiliated just as much as the BNP did when they did that.

[Vassenor]

Britain first has set itself up on the registry in NI to run for office in elections here. Hope they get humiliated just as much as the BNP did when they did that.

And then presumably they blame the Muslims for rigging the elections when they don't win. I mean that seems to be their go-to whenever something doesn't go their way.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Khan's blamed soaring knife crime in London on Youtube videos, rather than linking it to anything vaguely relevant like Tory police cuts, or backing up recent comments by the head of the Met Police supporting increased use of stop-and-search powers (which May had a track record of opposing as Home Sec).

Honestly if Krazy Khan turned out to be a Tory plant I would not be in the least surprised.

[banter]I guess being stabbed is just another thing Londoners should get used to.[/banter]

[Imperializt Russia]

Khan's blamed soaring knife crime in London on Youtube videos, rather than linking it to anything vaguely relevant like Tory police cuts, or backing up recent comments by the head of the Met Police supporting increased use of stop-and-search powers (which May had a track record of opposing as Home Sec).

Honestly if Krazy Khan turned out to be a Tory plant I would not be in the least surprised.

[banter]I guess being stabbed is just another thing Londoners should get used to.[/banter]

No, he didn't.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Khan's blamed soaring knife crime in London on Youtube videos, rather than linking it to anything vaguely relevant like Tory police cuts, or backing up recent comments by the head of the Met Police supporting increased use of stop-and-search powers (which May had a track record of opposing as Home Sec).

Honestly if Krazy Khan turned out to be a Tory plant I would not be in the least surprised.

[banter]I guess being stabbed is just another thing Londoners should get used to.[/banter]

No, he didn't.

I mean, he's directly railing against the folk devil of the new media, claiming without much or any evidence that these are contributing to increasing tensions and violence in London, and arguing that if any questionable videos aren't removed *immediately* - and how completely unrealistic and impractical is that from a technological point of view - people will die as a result. Seems like he's-a-playing the blame game when there are far more logical targets for blame sitting in Downing Street. Odd behaviour, no?

[Souseiseki]

labour have always moral alarmists re: media

[Dumb Ideologies]

labour have always moral alarmists re: media

Yes. I get that Labour got pissed about the way the traditional media covered the campaign. New media and social networks were the most friendly towards Corbyn and a major engine for mobilising his success. Crippling them by whipping up moral panics of the kind that have destroyed Youtube ad revenues of late - and in the process put the businesses models of thousands of completely innocent "little guy" content providers under threat - and making impossible demands for instant removal of inappropriate videos isn't going to help the viability of these very useful information streams.

We - the left as a whole - really do need to get over the whole "Zinoviev letter" aversion to even the useful sections of the media, and we need to stop turning on them instead of taking really obvious avenues of attack on our political opponents; in the long term it will only serve to bite us on our arses.

[Chestaan]

Britain first has set itself up on the registry in NI to run for office in elections here. Hope they get humiliated just as much as the BNP did when they did that.

Britain First could learn a thing or two from the loyalists on how to be bigoted scum bags.