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If you are a communist, how do you identify yourself?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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If you are a communist, how do you identify yourself?

Marxism–Leninism–Stalinism
15
19%
Marxism–Leninism–Trotskyism
11
14%
Marxism–Leninism–Lukácsism
0
No votes
Marxism–Leninism–Gramscism
1
1%
Marxism–Leninism–Maoism
10
13%
Marxism–De Leonism
2
3%
Marxism–Leninism–Titoism
6
8%
left communism (including council communism, Luxemburgism, Bordigism, Pankhurstism, and others)
19
25%
autonomist Marxism or open Marxism
3
4%
revolutionary syndicalism
10
13%
 
Total votes : 77

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:15 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:Lucakscism and Gramscism aren't real established tendencies to be honest.

Thanks for having a revolutionary syndicalist option but.


Politically, no; but they are established tendencies in academia.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:16 pm

The Portland Territory wrote:While this technically isn't a Communist General, I need your honest opinion:

Do y'all, as communists, believe that the ideology of Strasserism to also be a communist ideology?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism#Ideology


No. Certain Strasserists might have authentically believed in socialism as an economic model, but not communism, and most weren't even socialists.
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:17 pm

Risottia wrote:Bolsheviks are supposed to be internationalists.


Unfortunately, in the former Soviet Union, that ended with Stalin's "socialism in one country."
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:17 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Oooh I'm one of four. Where are all my other revolutionary syndicalist comrades?


What has happened to revolutionary syndicalism after the defection of its founder, Georges Sorel? Is there a party?

Revsyns have never been big on parties. More on big unions. Their stars fell as the MLs rose, but now they've got more opportunies than they have since pre-WW2 on the left imo.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:19 pm

The Portland Territory wrote:While this technically isn't a Communist General, I need your honest opinion:

Do y'all, as communists, believe that the ideology of Strasserism to also be a communist ideology?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism#Ideology

Interesting, and some cross overs on the edges of both movements, but they were fundamentally anti-communist racist and totalitarian social democrats for the most part.
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The Portland Territory
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Postby The Portland Territory » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:20 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
The Portland Territory wrote:While this technically isn't a Communist General, I need your honest opinion:

Do y'all, as communists, believe that the ideology of Strasserism to also be a communist ideology?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism#Ideology


No. Certain Strasserists might have authentically believed in socialism as an economic model, but not communism, and most weren't even socialists.

Grazie

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Kibbutz Unions
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:20 pm

The Portland Territory wrote:While this technically isn't a Communist General, I need your honest opinion:

Do y'all, as communists, believe that the ideology of Strasserism to also be a communist ideology?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism#Ideology

No. Communism is inherently against nationalism and racism (Both Marxists and Anarchists agree).

But I'm just a Jewish Globalist Hillary Clinton Illuminati Reptilian Liberal Cultural Marxist Zionist Overlord so I guess I don't count? :p
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm

Kibbutz Unions wrote:
The Portland Territory wrote:While this technically isn't a Communist General, I need your honest opinion:

Do y'all, as communists, believe that the ideology of Strasserism to also be a communist ideology?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism#Ideology

No. Communism is inherently against nationalism and racism (Both Marxists and Anarchists agree).

On the first part no, not really.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/ ... jun/30.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/tito/1948/11/26.htm

On the second part, plenty of communists have been and are racists. This removes accountability and culpability. Better to say should not be racist imo.
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Kibbutz Unions
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Risottia wrote:Bolsheviks are supposed to be internationalists.


Unfortunately, in the former Soviet Union, that ended with Stalin's "socialism in one country."

Stalin never really abandoned the internationalist aspects of communism, he just tried best to play with the cards he had.
Honestly, I may dislike him for his totalitarian tendencies (And cult of personality) but I think he is wrongly criticized in that aspect.
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:25 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:Revsyns have never been big on parties. More on big unions. Their stars fell as the MLs rose, but now they've got more opportunies than they have since pre-WW2 on the left imo.


Good to hear. Revolutionary syndicalism is an important voice on the Left.
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:26 pm

Kibbutz Unions wrote:Stalin never really abandoned the internationalist aspects of communism, he just tried best to play with the cards he had.
Honestly, I may dislike him for his totalitarian tendencies (And cult of personality) but I think he is wrongly criticized in that aspect.


Well, Stalin was willing to compromise his principles, IMO.
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Kibbutz Unions
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:27 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Kibbutz Unions wrote:No. Communism is inherently against nationalism and racism (Both Marxists and Anarchists agree).

On the first part no, not really.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/ ... jun/30.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/tito/1948/11/26.htm

On the second part, plenty of communists have been and are racists. This removes accountability and culpability. Better to say should not be racist imo.

They might have been racists but racism isn't a part of communist ideology.
A person who is a communist can have bigoted and racist beliefs personally but it's never a characteristic of the movements, anyway the communist ideologies are inherently internationalist and oppose false consciousnesses.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:29 pm

>tfw too smart to not be a Dejist-Ceausescuist
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:30 pm

Kibbutz Unions wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:On the first part no, not really.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/ ... jun/30.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/tito/1948/11/26.htm

On the second part, plenty of communists have been and are racists. This removes accountability and culpability. Better to say should not be racist imo.

They might have been racists but racism isn't a part of communist ideology.
A person who is a communist can have bigoted and racist beliefs personally but it's never a characteristic of the movements, anyway the communist ideologies are inherently internationalist and oppose false consciousnesses.

Yes but left wing nationalism is real and an integral part of the communist movement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_patriotism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_and_unity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_republicanism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abertzale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Power_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandinista_ideology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:31 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:>tfw too smart to not be a Dejist-Ceausescuist

Dejist?
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:31 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:>tfw too smart to not be a Dejist-Ceausescuist

Dejist?

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Kibbutz Unions
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:32 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Kibbutz Unions wrote:Stalin never really abandoned the internationalist aspects of communism, he just tried best to play with the cards he had.
Honestly, I may dislike him for his totalitarian tendencies (And cult of personality) but I think he is wrongly criticized in that aspect.


Well, Stalin was willing to compromise his principles, IMO.

I get what you're saying but it's hard to criticize him for that considering the situation the USSR was in back in the day. It was the only socialist state and on top of that was highly underdeveloped, the revolutions of Germany and Finland failed etc.
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RARE BASED LAND
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Postby RARE BASED LAND » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:34 pm

Communism killed more people than Nazism, yet communism is treated as a more socially acceptable ideology because it didn't specifically discriminate against a religious or ethnic demographic.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:34 pm

RARE BASED LAND wrote:Communism killed more people than Nazism, yet communism is treated as a more socially acceptable ideology because it didn't specifically discriminate against a religious or ethnic demographic.

It did though.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:37 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
RARE BASED LAND wrote:Communism killed more people than Nazism, yet communism is treated as a more socially acceptable ideology because it didn't specifically discriminate against a religious or ethnic demographic.

It did though.

Well it went after all of them not just one or two.
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Kibbutz Unions
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:39 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Kibbutz Unions wrote:They might have been racists but racism isn't a part of communist ideology.
A person who is a communist can have bigoted and racist beliefs personally but it's never a characteristic of the movements, anyway the communist ideologies are inherently internationalist and oppose false consciousnesses.

Yes but left wing nationalism is real and an integral part of the communist movement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_patriotism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_and_unity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_republicanism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abertzale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Power_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandinista_ideology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava

Socialist patriotism: It is not about an ethnic/nationalist form but being proud in Socialism.
Brotherhood and unity: Actually it is a slogan that basically said that although there are different groups in Yugoslavia they are all united together in spite of the differences
Irish Republicanism to Bolivarian: Not communism, arguably some of them aren't even socialist (Ahem Venezuela ahem)
Rojava: Actually: "Like the KCK umbrella in general, and even more so, the PYD attempts to denounce the ideology of nationalism,[196] including Kurdish nationalism. They stand in stark contrast to Kurdish nationalist visions of the Iraqi Kurdish KDP sponsored Kurdish National Council in Syria.[197]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava#Kurdish_question
I don't know enough about Sandinista to answer for that though.
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Kibbutz Unions
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:44 pm

RARE BASED LAND wrote:Communism killed more people than Nazism, yet communism is treated as a more socially acceptable ideology because it didn't specifically discriminate against a religious or ethnic demographic.

Ummmmmmmmm.... No.
Did communists ever use gas chambers? Ovens? Death Marches? Did Communists start a World War?
The majority of the people who died were either because of the civil wars between the Red and White forces (Such as in Russia and China) but blaming it entirely on the Reds is intellectually dishonest, others died in the rapid industrialization- but it was exactly that- for some while the allocation of resources failed because they were still in feudal countries, but after that basically nobody died from another famine and the situation became much better, but basically if there would have been a revolution right now outside your window no rapid industrialization would be needed- no deaths from that.
No group was targeted for any of their identities, nor was there any systematic slaughter. Stalin killed off opponents in his purges but this is a trait of dictators so it's pretty stupid to blame it on the ideology of communism.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:47 pm

Kibbutz Unions wrote:
RARE BASED LAND wrote:Communism killed more people than Nazism, yet communism is treated as a more socially acceptable ideology because it didn't specifically discriminate against a religious or ethnic demographic.

Ummmmmmmmm.... No.
Did communists ever use gas chambers? Ovens? Death Marches? Did Communists start a World War?
The majority of the people who died were either because of the civil wars between the Red and White forces (Such as in Russia and China) but blaming it entirely on the Reds is intellectually dishonest, others died in the rapid industrialization- but it was exactly that- for some while the allocation of resources failed because they were still in feudal countries, but after that basically nobody died from another famine and the situation became much better, but basically if there would have been a revolution right now outside your window no rapid industrialization would be needed- no deaths from that.
No group was targeted for any of their identities, nor was there any systematic slaughter. Stalin killed off opponents in his purges but this is a trait of dictators so it's pretty stupid to blame it on the ideology of communism.

Um the USSR definitely had death marches. The Polish can tell you that much.
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:48 pm

Kibbutz Unions wrote:I get what you're saying but it's hard to criticize him for that considering the situation the USSR was in back in the day. It was the only socialist state and on top of that was highly underdeveloped, the revolutions of Germany and Finland failed etc.


I don't blame Stalin. I think he did the best he could. I just don't think he was the best person for the job. IMO, Rosa Luxemburg (had she not been assassinated) or Paul Levi would have made better leaders. Of course, neither of them had a connection with Russia (or, in Stalin's case, Soviet Georgia).
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Impaled Nazarene
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Posts: 10311
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:48 pm

Anarcho-Democratic-Trotskyist
Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

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