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by Neu Leonstein » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:50 am
by Minoa » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:06 am
by Souseiseki » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:17 pm
by Hurdergaryp » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:35 pm
Souseiseki wrote:http://www.politico.eu/newsletter/brexit-files/politico-brexit-files-fundamental-divergence-the-nuclear-waste-option-lamb-and-strawberry-diplomacy/
Meanwhile, the U.K. side is cross that the EU proposes British expats in Europe will only be allowed to seek residence rights in the country they live in — not throughout the EU — so stripping them of the freedom of movement rights they currently enjoy.
oh my god the UK is angry about freedom of movement ending
by Vassenor » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:10 pm
Hurdergaryp wrote:Souseiseki wrote:http://www.politico.eu/newsletter/brexit-files/politico-brexit-files-fundamental-divergence-the-nuclear-waste-option-lamb-and-strawberry-diplomacy/
Meanwhile, the U.K. side is cross that the EU proposes British expats in Europe will only be allowed to seek residence rights in the country they live in — not throughout the EU — so stripping them of the freedom of movement rights they currently enjoy.
oh my god the UK is angry about freedom of movement ending
But wasn't that what Brexit was all about? This is rather confusing, I'm afraid.
by Vassenor » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:53 am
by Calladan » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:00 am
by Salandriagado » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:11 am
by Neu Leonstein » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:34 am
by Calladan » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:47 am
by Neu Leonstein » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:22 am
Calladan wrote:You say all that like it's a surprise. Like anyone, even Farage, knew what they wanted from Brexit when they started campaigning for a yes vote.
by Dooom35796821595 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:58 am
Calladan wrote:You say all that like it's a surprise. Like anyone, even Farage, knew what they wanted from Brexit when they started campaigning for a yes vote.
No one knew, and no one had any plans, because no one expected to win. Not a single person who was saying "VOTE LEAVE" actually thought that we, the British people, could be stupid enough to vote ourselves into this position. The entire referendum was just a publicity stunt by Cameron to win back UKIP voters - he didn't think people would take it seriously. And while Farage always wanted out, he never thought it would actually happen - he just wanted a bigger club to whack the government with over immigration and over "insane crazy EU Directives and Regulations" (and I just learned the difference between those two yesterday by the way! Go me!) so that he could get more UKIP MPs into Parliament.
But instead he won, and now his party is in decline, he is a national joke and no one gives a shit about what he thinks. (Okay - ONE good thing has come out of all this )
What do I want now that the British public proved themselves EVEN more stupid and racist than I thought they were? *shrug* Quite honestly I don't want anything. Whatever terms we arrange, the country is fucked for a generation or so. You might as well ask me "If you are plunging to your death at 30,000 ft per second, do you want the spikes you land on to be made of steel or iron?" because that's pretty much what the outcome of these negotiations is going to be like - we are monumentally fucked, no matter what they agree. And no matter what they agree, half the country will be pissed off, and the other half will be REALLY pissed off.
There is no good version of Brexit. That's what we should have had on the side of a bus.
by HMS Queen Elizabeth » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:58 am
by HMS Queen Elizabeth » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:03 pm
Neu Leonstein wrote:But at least on NSG we could in theory do better... so to those who supported Leave at the time and those who fall into the 'the referendum decided and now Brexit should be pursued' camp: knowing everything that we do now about the EU's position and about how the negotiations work, what would you want the British delegation to work for? ]What sort of post-Brexit arrangement would you want?
And what do you want the UK government to do once Brexit is done?
What sort of country do you want the UK to be in twenty or thirty years' time?
by Souseiseki » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:03 pm
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:May seems to be a fundamentally weak and muddled person. But with whom to replace her?
The solution to this mess is to reintroduce the property qualification franchise, and eliminate MP pay, so that we have a parliament of aristocrats once again.
by HMS Queen Elizabeth » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:06 pm
Souseiseki wrote:HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:May seems to be a fundamentally weak and muddled person. But with whom to replace her?
The solution to this mess is to reintroduce the property qualification franchise, and eliminate MP pay, so that we have a parliament of aristocrats once again.
the problem is that we're ran by spoiled millionaires that have not a clue what they're doing
the solution is not to try push out everyone that isn't them
by Souseiseki » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:07 pm
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:Souseiseki wrote:
the problem is that we're ran by spoiled millionaires that have not a clue what they're doing
the solution is not to try push out everyone that isn't them
Not many of our politicians are millionaires that didn't become so by semi-legal corruption as a result of being politicians, a problem that is much less pronounced among people with their own money. Theresa May is a lower middle class girl done good much like Thatcher (a bit higher up that Thatcher but not a lot). Corbyn's family was somewhat richer but not much higher status; certainly not independently wealthy.
by Souseiseki » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:09 pm
by HMS Queen Elizabeth » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:09 pm
Souseiseki wrote:HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:Not many of our politicians are millionaires that didn't become so by semi-legal corruption as a result of being politicians, a problem that is much less pronounced among people with their own money. Theresa May is a lower middle class girl done good much like Thatcher (a bit higher up that Thatcher but not a lot). Corbyn's family was somewhat richer but not much higher status; certainly not independently wealthy.
this sounds a lot like the "trump is too rich to be corrupt!" line
i don't think it worked
by Vassenor » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:10 pm
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:May seems to be a fundamentally weak and muddled person. But with whom to replace her?
The solution to this mess is to reintroduce the property qualification franchise, and eliminate MP pay, so that we have a parliament of aristocrats once again.
by Vassenor » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:11 pm
HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:Souseiseki wrote:
this sounds a lot like the "trump is too rich to be corrupt!" line
i don't think it worked
I see no evidence at all that Trump is a corrupt politician. I think Trump believes close to everything he says and he speaks much more candidly than just about anyone else in politics.
by HMS Queen Elizabeth » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:12 pm
Vassenor wrote:HMS Queen Elizabeth wrote:May seems to be a fundamentally weak and muddled person. But with whom to replace her?
The solution to this mess is to reintroduce the property qualification franchise, and eliminate MP pay, so that we have a parliament of aristocrats once again.
So why do you seem to hate democracy?
by Eredion » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:29 pm
by Eredion » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:32 pm
Dooom35796821595 wrote:Calladan wrote:You say all that like it's a surprise. Like anyone, even Farage, knew what they wanted from Brexit when they started campaigning for a yes vote.
No one knew, and no one had any plans, because no one expected to win. Not a single person who was saying "VOTE LEAVE" actually thought that we, the British people, could be stupid enough to vote ourselves into this position. The entire referendum was just a publicity stunt by Cameron to win back UKIP voters - he didn't think people would take it seriously. And while Farage always wanted out, he never thought it would actually happen - he just wanted a bigger club to whack the government with over immigration and over "insane crazy EU Directives and Regulations" (and I just learned the difference between those two yesterday by the way! Go me!) so that he could get more UKIP MPs into Parliament.
But instead he won, and now his party is in decline, he is a national joke and no one gives a shit about what he thinks. (Okay - ONE good thing has come out of all this )
What do I want now that the British public proved themselves EVEN more stupid and racist than I thought they were? *shrug* Quite honestly I don't want anything. Whatever terms we arrange, the country is fucked for a generation or so. You might as well ask me "If you are plunging to your death at 30,000 ft per second, do you want the spikes you land on to be made of steel or iron?" because that's pretty much what the outcome of these negotiations is going to be like - we are monumentally fucked, no matter what they agree. And no matter what they agree, half the country will be pissed off, and the other half will be REALLY pissed off.
There is no good version of Brexit. That's what we should have had on the side of a bus.
Or perhaps people wanted the economic and trade benefits without a bunch of power hungry fools trying to unite a continent based on Franco-Germanic political ideals? And having decided it's gone too far, want out of all the political BS. Since one government is bad enough, a supranational one is even worse.
But no, just keep steryotyping the pro-brexiters as stupid racists, that'll win people over.
by Dooom35796821595 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:36 pm
Eredion wrote:Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Or perhaps people wanted the economic and trade benefits without a bunch of power hungry fools trying to unite a continent based on Franco-Germanic political ideals? And having decided it's gone too far, want out of all the political BS. Since one government is bad enough, a supranational one is even worse.
But no, just keep steryotyping the pro-brexiters as stupid racists, that'll win people over.
It´s been made pretty clear by everyone in the EU and Remain that you can´t really have the benefits without the power hungry unification under our German-Franco ideals.
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