Is Death in Combat Glorious?

[Chestaan]

Not to mention that a focus point of the strategic bombing campaign was to reduce the morale of the German population. Terror bombing was always part of it, even if it wasn't the central focus.

Still a shame that the veterans of Bomber Command were maligned years after the war. Harris is a damn hero.

After they asked to bear the greatest burden of the war. A tragedy indeed.

I think the Russians might disagree on who bore the greatest burden.

[Cedoria]

Having never died, I can't say.

My suspicion is that if you are dead you probably no longer have the capacity to give a fig if it was glorious or not.

That said, I think people who fight to the death in helpless circumstances for a just cause are admirable. But that doesn't alter the fact that they are dead. Personally I would think in most circumstances you are far more useful to your chosen cause alive then dead.

[The Two Jerseys]

Eh, not necessarily.

Buying time for your allies, inflicting losses on your enemy and generally not going down without a fight are also good reasons to fight a battle that is already lost before it even begins.

Mhm fair.

One of the best last stands in history btw.

God damn, that's a lot of Singhs...

[The East Marches II]

After they asked to bear the greatest burden of the war. A tragedy indeed.

I think the Russians might disagree on who bore the greatest burden.

Of course, they also believe they were competent and didn't have their scheming blow up in their face. Oh well, 1991 proved who was right in the end.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Having never died, I can't say.

My suspicion is that if you are dead you probably no longer have the capacity to give a fig if it was glorious or not.

That said, I think people who fight to the death in helpless circumstances for a just cause are admirable. But that doesn't alter the fact that they are dead. Personally I would think in most circumstances you are far more useful to your chosen cause alive then dead.

Yeah, this is it pretty much

[Napkiraly]

America should go full Anglo and have a unit consisting entirely of Sikhs led by American officers. Have them guard and patrol the border with Mexico. Would be better than any wall imaginable. Bonus points if the officers wear pith helmets.

[Galloism]

America should go full Anglo and have a unit consisting entirely of Sikhs led by American officers. Have them guard and patrol the border with Mexico. Would be better than any wall imaginable. Bonus points if the officers wear pith helmets.

We may have to import tea and crumpets, however.

[The East Marches II]

America should go full Anglo and have a unit consisting entirely of Sikhs led by American officers. Have them guard and patrol the border with Mexico. Would be better than any wall imaginable. Bonus points if the officers wear pith helmets.

10/10 I support this system of border patrolling. c

[Napkiraly]

Mhm fair.

One of the best last stands in history btw.

God damn, that's a lot of Singhs...

They were Sikhs. It is mandated that all baptized male Sikhs have the surname Singh iirc.

[Napkiraly]

America should go full Anglo and have a unit consisting entirely of Sikhs led by American officers. Have them guard and patrol the border with Mexico. Would be better than any wall imaginable. Bonus points if the officers wear pith helmets.

We may have to import tea and crumpets, however.

No need. Just get some good boys from Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia. Sweet tea is still tea.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

America should go full Anglo and have a unit consisting entirely of Sikhs led by American officers. Have them guard and patrol the border with Mexico. Would be better than any wall imaginable. Bonus points if the officers wear pith helmets.

We may have to import tea and crumpets, however.

It would be worth it.

[The Two Jerseys]

God damn, that's a lot of Singhs...

They were Sikhs. It is mandated that all baptized male Sikhs have the surname Singh iirc.

Apparently the Sikhs I know are the only ones not named Singh...

From what I'm reading, they're allowed to use it as either a middle name or a surname, I guess the usage varies with different groups.

[Thermodolia]

That's fucking dumb as hell. Live to fight again. If you can't win retreat, regroup, and try again.

Depends really. If we're talking Napoleonic era cavalry catching enemy infantry formed in line with no immediate support, fighting to the last man is the infantry's best chance to save at least some of the unit, if they run the cavalry will just ride them down and slaughter them.

Do you see Napoleon around? Because last time it checked it's the 21st century not the 19th

[Salus Maior]

God damn, that's a lot of Singhs...

They were Sikhs. It is mandated that all baptized male Sikhs have the surname Singh iirc.

Why's that?

[Thermodolia]

We may have to import tea and crumpets, however.

No need. Just get some good boys from Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia. Sweet tea is still tea.

I ain't handing over my tea!

[The Two Jerseys]

Depends really. If we're talking Napoleonic era cavalry catching enemy infantry formed in line with no immediate support, fighting to the last man is the infantry's best chance to save at least some of the unit, if they run the cavalry will just ride them down and slaughter them.

Do you see Napoleon around? Because last time it checked it's the 21st century not the 19th

Well, if you insist on a more modern example...

[San Marlindo]

It will suck. It will be the most painful, the most horrific, and the most gruesome experience in your life.

Death in combat might be glorious if you're hopped up on opiates and a heady cocktail of as much alcohol as you can hold so you feel no pain, and you're running at full speed with a bayonet in your hand. Then you live long enough to see the charge you led succeed. This was how it was done in World War I and plenty of wars in the nineteenth century.

It is not glorious when like 90% of combat deaths in the modern era, you are killed at long range by a sniper round or a fragment of artillery as you drink your morning coffee or sit down to make your toilet. You won't even realize you've been hit. Just a sudden loss of consciousness, followed by almost instant death if they nailed you in the face/neck/unprotected head.

But let's suppose they nailed you in the stomach instead. There you are, last thing you remember is frantically trying to shove your guts back into your body as every ounce of blood in your system drains out and soaks the ground around you. Ouch.

Or maybe they didn't succeed in doing even that. Maybe you survived the fragments and the bullets because you were in an armored vehicle.

But wait, the armored vehicle hits a boosted anti-tank mine. You're in the driver's seat. All the glass in the vehicle is going to erupt inwards and embed itself into your skin. You won't be able to get free of your seat and get out. Then you'll live just long enough to smell smoke and realize you're fucked as fire sweeps through the hull, turning the vehicle into your tomb. Last thing you feel is your skin burning off and the last thing you hear is everybody else in said vehicle with you screaming for the same reason.

Let's say your armored vehicle is a MRAP or something. So the explosion doesn't kill you. But the insurgents use a massive IED and pack 100kg of fucking explosive into it like the shit Hezbollah builds to disable Merkavas that it hurls the MRAP ten feet into the air. Then about ten tons of steel slam onto your midsection. You wake up, realize the bottom half of your body is stuck under the vehicle and chances you've been cut in half. You live just long enough to realize you've been literally severed and maybe smoke a cigarette then mercifully expire... thankfully in shock, because otherwise the pain would suck.

Or wait, what if you're not even killed by the enemy at all? You're in combat, and your incompetent battle buddy kills you both with a grenade? Or allied forces mistake you for the enemy and blast you away? Maybe they do it intentionally, like what happens with those green on blue incidents in Afghanistan. Or you die because of some other kind of accident, which is all too common during wartime. Still feeling glorious?

Keep in mind that while all of the above is happening, there is often no incredibly gorgeous orchestra soundtrack for Battle Hymn of the Republic, Danger Zone, or "farewell of slavianka" playing in the background as you bleed out, which is one reason those choreographed Hollywood battle scenes feel so glorious.

This is why I'm intensely suspicious of people who describe battle and combat while doing Stephen Holloway impressions, using words like "patriot", "Motherland", "courage", "fighting to my last breath", and "baptism of fire". The number of genuinely badass combat veterans who say shit like this is outweighed several million times over by chicken Hawks who have never even held a weapon in their lives, and think it's all "glorious" because they've never been there, have no interest in going there, and don't really think about war deaths outside of reenactments, video games, and movies, when the actors always get back up in the end or a computer respawns another faceless grunt.

Chicken hawks the lot of them. I ask them to consider joining the military every time I meet one, as it will prove whether they really have the courage of their convictions or just saw a John Wayne movie last night. The men and women who spend their four years packing parachutes, counting crates, or sitting through mandatory briefings/training/powerpoints are often more courageous people than they are.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It will suck. It will be the most painful, the most horrific, and the most gruesome experience in your life.

Death in combat might be glorious if you're hopped up on opiates and a heady cocktail of as much alcohol as you can hold so you feel no pain, and you're running at full speed with a bayonet in your hand. Then you live long enough to see the charge you led succeed. This was how it was done in World War I and plenty of wars in the nineteenth century.

It is not glorious when like 90% of combat deaths in the modern era, you are killed at long range by a sniper round or a fragment of artillery as you drink your morning coffee or sit down to make your toilet. You won't even realize you've been hit. Just a sudden loss of consciousness, followed by almost instant death if they nailed you in the face/neck/unprotected head.

But let's suppose they nailed you in the stomach instead. There you are, last thing you remember is frantically trying to shove your guts back into your body as every ounce of blood in your system drains out and soaks the ground around you. Ouch.

Or maybe they didn't succeed in doing even that. Maybe you survived the fragments and the bullets because you were in an armored vehicle.

But wait, the armored vehicle hits a boosted anti-tank mine. You're in the driver's seat. All the glass in the vehicle is going to erupt inwards and embed itself into your skin. You won't be able to get free of your seat and get out. Then you'll live just long enough to smell smoke and realize you're fucked as fire sweeps through the hull, turning the vehicle into your tomb. Last thing you feel is your skin burning off and the last thing you hear is everybody else in said vehicle with you screaming for the same reason.

Let's say your armored vehicle is a MRAP or something. So the explosion doesn't kill you. But the insurgents use a massive IED and pack 100kg of fucking explosive into it like the shit Hezbollah builds to disable Merkavas that it hurls the MRAP ten feet into the air. Then about ten tons of steel slam onto your midsection. You wake up, realize the bottom half of your body is stuck under the vehicle and chances you've been cut in half. You live just long enough to realize you've been literally severed and maybe smoke a cigarette then mercifully expire... thankfully in shock, because otherwise the pain would suck.

Or wait, what if you're not even killed by the enemy at all? You're in combat, and your incompetent battle buddy kills you both with a grenade? Or allied forces mistake you for the enemy and blast you away? Maybe they do it intentionally, like what happens with those green on blue incidents in Afghanistan. Or you die because of some other kind of accident, which is all too common during wartime. Still feeling glorious?

Keep in mind that while all of the above is happening, there is often no incredibly gorgeous orchestra soundtrack for Battle Hymn of the Republic, Danger Zone, or "farewell of slavianka" playing in the background as you bleed out, which is one reason those choreographed Hollywood battle scenes feel so glorious.

This is why I'm intensely suspicious of people who describe battle and combat while doing Stephen Holloway impressions, using words like "patriot", "Motherland", "courage", "fighting to my last breath", and "baptism of fire". The number of genuinely badass combat veterans who say shit like this is outweighed several million times over by chicken Hawks who have never even held a weapon in their lives, and think it's all "glorious" because they've never been there, have no interest in going there, and don't really think about war deaths outside of reenactments, video games, and movies, when the actors always get back up in the end or a computer respawns another faceless grunt.

Chicken hawks the lot of them. I ask them to consider joining the military every time I meet one, as it will prove whether they really have the courage of their convictions or just saw a John Wayne movie last night. The men and women who spend their four years packing parachutes, counting crates, or sitting through mandatory briefings/training/powerpoints are often more courageous people than they are.

You have no idea how much we joke about PTSD to shit like mandatory safety briefings and helping logistics

[San Marlindo]

It will suck. It will be the most painful, the most horrific, and the most gruesome experience in your life.

Death in combat might be glorious if you're hopped up on opiates and a heady cocktail of as much alcohol as you can hold so you feel no pain, and you're running at full speed with a bayonet in your hand. Then you live long enough to see the charge you led succeed. This was how it was done in World War I and plenty of wars in the nineteenth century.

It is not glorious when like 90% of combat deaths in the modern era, you are killed at long range by a sniper round or a fragment of artillery as you drink your morning coffee or sit down to make your toilet. You won't even realize you've been hit. Just a sudden loss of consciousness, followed by almost instant death if they nailed you in the face/neck/unprotected head.

But let's suppose they nailed you in the stomach instead. There you are, last thing you remember is frantically trying to shove your guts back into your body as every ounce of blood in your system drains out and soaks the ground around you. Ouch.

Or maybe they didn't succeed in doing even that. Maybe you survived the fragments and the bullets because you were in an armored vehicle.

But wait, the armored vehicle hits a boosted anti-tank mine. You're in the driver's seat. All the glass in the vehicle is going to erupt inwards and embed itself into your skin. You won't be able to get free of your seat and get out. Then you'll live just long enough to smell smoke and realize you're fucked as fire sweeps through the hull, turning the vehicle into your tomb. Last thing you feel is your skin burning off and the last thing you hear is everybody else in said vehicle with you screaming for the same reason.

Let's say your armored vehicle is a MRAP or something. So the explosion doesn't kill you. But the insurgents use a massive IED and pack 100kg of fucking explosive into it like the shit Hezbollah builds to disable Merkavas that it hurls the MRAP ten feet into the air. Then about ten tons of steel slam onto your midsection. You wake up, realize the bottom half of your body is stuck under the vehicle and chances you've been cut in half. You live just long enough to realize you've been literally severed and maybe smoke a cigarette then mercifully expire... thankfully in shock, because otherwise the pain would suck.

Or wait, what if you're not even killed by the enemy at all? You're in combat, and your incompetent battle buddy kills you both with a grenade? Or allied forces mistake you for the enemy and blast you away? Maybe they do it intentionally, like what happens with those green on blue incidents in Afghanistan. Or you die because of some other kind of accident, which is all too common during wartime. Still feeling glorious?

Keep in mind that while all of the above is happening, there is often no incredibly gorgeous orchestra soundtrack for Battle Hymn of the Republic, Danger Zone, or "farewell of slavianka" playing in the background as you bleed out, which is one reason those choreographed Hollywood battle scenes feel so glorious.

This is why I'm intensely suspicious of people who describe battle and combat while doing Stephen Holloway impressions, using words like "patriot", "Motherland", "courage", "fighting to my last breath", and "baptism of fire". The number of genuinely badass combat veterans who say shit like this is outweighed several million times over by chicken Hawks who have never even held a weapon in their lives, and think it's all "glorious" because they've never been there, have no interest in going there, and don't really think about war deaths outside of reenactments, video games, and movies, when the actors always get back up in the end or a computer respawns another faceless grunt.

Chicken hawks the lot of them. I ask them to consider joining the military every time I meet one, as it will prove whether they really have the courage of their convictions or just saw a John Wayne movie last night. The men and women who spend their four years packing parachutes, counting crates, or sitting through mandatory briefings/training/powerpoints are often more courageous people than they are.

You have no idea how much we joke about PTSD to shit like mandatory safety briefings and helping logistics

Let me guess...you were the one they always asked to make up the powerpoint.

[Internationalist Bastard]

You have no idea how much we joke about PTSD to shit like mandatory safety briefings and helping logistics

Let me guess...you were the one they always asked to make up the powerpoint.

Fuck no I was infantry. Still had to sit through "Drinking off Duty" fifty million times

[Napkiraly]

Most combat casualties in WW1 were because of artillery, not over the top charges which were not nearly as common as people think.

[Ethel mermania]

There is something to be said for thr man who throws himself on a hand grenade so the rest of his fellows can live, but I don't think it's glorious. How much better we would all be if that kind of man lived.

It's kinda of a sick twisted honor. Dying for ones country can be an honorable thing to do but it's not glorious. And you definitely shouldn't seek it out.

agreed.

[Thermodolia]

Do you see Napoleon around? Because last time it checked it's the 21st century not the 19th

Well, if you insist on a more modern example...

Ya but he lived.

[The Two Jerseys]

Well, if you insist on a more modern example...

Ya but he lived.

And if he didn't stay at his post, he probably wouldn't have.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Most combat casualties in WW1 were because of artillery, not over the top charges which were not nearly as common as people think.

Course not. Most officers wouldn't order it, and no soldier is dumb enough to pick running at a ditch full of guns over hiding their own ditch