The State of the Democratic Party Post-2016

[USS Monitor]

I can't help but wonder if the Democrats want to lose the way they keep talking about repeating mistakes. The way they cling to divisive, vote-losing identity politics, the way they refuse to commit to campaign finance reform and universal healthcare, it is incredibly demoralizing to watch.

Please shut up about identity politics. It's a buzz word used by people who want us to stop caring about civil rights. A Democratic Party that gives up on civil rights truly would be a Democratic Party that deserves to die. We're going to lose far harder if we cast women, racial minorities, and sexual minorities aside in favor of focusing on white men.

Hi. I'm a woman. Please fucking stop with this shit that toning down the identity politics garbage is "casting women aside." Women are not a hivemind and not every woman wants to hear about gender 24/7, especially not the tripe that was coming out of the Clinton campaign. Even Nancy Pelosi said the Clinton campaign was pushing too hard on the gender thing.

When people say the party needs to back off on the identity politics, it isn't just a buzzword and it isn't all about shifting the spotlight back to white men. There is an actual problem. Toning down the identity politics means looking for common ground that appeals across racial/gender/sexual orientation lines rather than compartmentalizing the population and then attempting to pander to each demographic separately. It also means focus on policy and the character of the individual candidates rather than things like "We need a female president." And it means letting individual voters be individuals, not trying to guilt trip them into voting a certain way based on their race, gender, etc. Don't put special pressure on women to vote for female candidates, don't put special pressure on minorities to vote for minority candidates, etc.

[Hittanryan]

Because demonization of white men has worked out so well, right? We only lost the House, Senate, Presidency, Supreme Court, most governorships, and most state governments. Yeah that's a real fucking winning formula obviously. We gotta double down on what has worked so well so far. I'm not shutting up until the party unfucks itself and starts winning elections again. We keep doing what we've been doing and we're going to be stuck with 8 goddamned years of Trump or Pence in the White House and a Congress determined to fist the American public to death through garbage economic and social policy.

I don't want the Democratic Party to stop caring about civil rights. I support gay marriage. I support racial equality. I support gender equality. I oppose discrimination against any American. I oppose unwarranted police brutality against any American. What I want the Democrats to do is to stop catering to divisive, aimless idiots like Black Lives Matter, Tumblrette feminists, and useless social science academics. They are never going to be satisfied. All they do is complain without proposing real solutions, driving away voters.

Then what do you propose should be done?

Adopt a fundamentally inclusive message instead of a divisive one. Instead of sectioning off people by race, religion, or sexual orientation, talk about how every American deserves the same opportunities and freedoms. This does not make the white male demographic the center of the universe, but rather brings Americans of all stripes together while even invoking a bit of civic patriotism.

White guilt is a vote loser. Radical feminism is a vote loser.

[Eol Sha]

Then what do you propose should be done?

Adopt a fundamentally inclusive message instead of a divisive one. Instead of sectioning off people by race, religion, or sexual orientation, talk about how every American deserves the same opportunities and freedoms. This does not make the white male demographic the center of the universe, but rather brings Americans of all stripes together while even invoking a bit of civic patriotism.

White guilt is a vote loser. Radical feminism is a vote loser.

That's not much of a plan. I'm talking policy-wise. What should the Dems do? What do you think they should focus on?

[Hittanryan]

Adopt a fundamentally inclusive message instead of a divisive one. Instead of sectioning off people by race, religion, or sexual orientation, talk about how every American deserves the same opportunities and freedoms. This does not make the white male demographic the center of the universe, but rather brings Americans of all stripes together while even invoking a bit of civic patriotism.

White guilt is a vote loser. Radical feminism is a vote loser.

That's not much of a plan. I'm talking policy-wise. What should the Dems do? What do you think they should focus on?

That's just it: the Dems don't really push much by way of meaningful policy in terms of identity politics. Most of the time the advocates themselves don't even know what policy they want. It's always abstract ideas like privilege, systemic racism, cultural appropriation, and the like. These kinds of things are so vague and hard to nail down that most of the time you can't actually pass a policy designed to address them. Sometimes the policies required to stop these kinds of things would infringe upon other civil liberties or could be abused.

What I'm advocating with respect to identity politics is a change in rhetoric, not policy. As I said before, I want the Democrats to continue supporting civil rights. I don't want those policies to change. To be effective and win elections, however, the Democrats need better messaging. I myself would prefer politics to be strictly issue- and policy-focused, weighing the merits of one policy against another. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. Rhetoric and messaging still count for a lot in politics, and we can't ignore them as much as we may prefer a dispassionate, calculated discourse.

In brief, less talk about white guilt, more talk about the land of opportunity. The defeatist, demoralized brand of national self-hate advanced by certain radicals is a dead end.

[MERIZoC]

Yeah which is why districts like GA-6 are a total waste to go after. I'm not saying Ossoff should have run as a leftist. He could have made improvements, but he put on a good show, for that district. But that's not the type of district the Dems should be targeting. Win back lost seats in upstate NY, Ohio, the Midwest, etc. Not the Sunbelt.

I remember when you were making fun of the Democrats for "Half assing the 50 state strategy" plan, now you're saying they shouldn't have even bothered running here.

Yeah, no, I'm not saying anything remotely like that.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I remember when you were making fun of the Democrats for "Half assing the 50 state strategy" plan, now you're saying they shouldn't have even bothered running here.

Yeah, no, I'm not saying anything remotely like that.

That's certainly what it seems like, tbh.

[Corrian]

I remember when you were making fun of the Democrats for "Half assing the 50 state strategy" plan, now you're saying they shouldn't have even bothered running here.

Yeah, no, I'm not saying anything remotely like that.

Er, not bothered targeting it. Which is still pretty much a "They shouldn't have bothered trying", though not explicitly that they shouldn't have run. Not really targeting everything doesn't sound like much of a 50 state strategy, either.

[MERIZoC]

Yeah, no, I'm not saying anything remotely like that.

Er, not bothered targeting it. Which is still pretty much a "They shouldn't have bothered trying", though not explicitly that they shouldn't have run. Not really targeting everything doesn't sound like much of a 50 state strategy, either.

Again, no. I'm saying we shouldn't be expecting those seats to be the future of the party. We shouldn't be thinking that we need to flip white, upper middle class Republicans by going super moderate, because they will never fucking vote for the Democrats. There are so many poor people who don't vote. Corbyn showed you can reach out to people like that. The Democrats need to do the same.

[Corrian]

Er, not bothered targeting it. Which is still pretty much a "They shouldn't have bothered trying", though not explicitly that they shouldn't have run. Not really targeting everything doesn't sound like much of a 50 state strategy, either.

Again, no. I'm saying we shouldn't be expecting those seats to be the future of the party. We shouldn't be thinking that we need to flip white, upper middle class Republicans by going super moderate, because they will never fucking vote for the Democrats. There are so many poor people who don't vote. Corbyn showed you can reach out to people like that. The Democrats need to do the same.

Fair enough.

[Ngelmish]

Please shut up about identity politics. It's a buzz word used by people who want us to stop caring about civil rights. A Democratic Party that gives up on civil rights truly would be a Democratic Party that deserves to die. We're going to lose far harder if we cast women, racial minorities, and sexual minorities aside in favor of focusing on white men.

Because demonization of white men has worked out so well, right? We only lost the House, Senate, Presidency, Supreme Court, most governorships, and most state governments. Yeah that's a real fucking winning formula obviously. We gotta double down on what has worked so well so far. I'm not shutting up until the party unfucks itself and starts winning elections again. We keep doing what we've been doing and we're going to be stuck with 8 goddamned years of Trump or Pence in the White House and a Congress determined to fist the American public to death through garbage economic and social policy.

I don't want the Democratic Party to stop caring about civil rights. I support gay marriage. I support racial equality. I support gender equality. I oppose discrimination against any American. I oppose unwarranted police brutality against any American. What I want the Democrats to do is to stop catering to divisive, aimless idiots like Black Lives Matter, Tumblrette feminists, and useless social science academics. They are never going to be satisfied. All they do is complain without proposing real solutions, driving away voters.

The party hasn't demonized white men though, and the only persons claiming that it has are people who have never had any intention of voting for Democrats and are pushing a political agenda hoping to make that strawman take permanent root. Have "identity politics" been divisive? Sure, but people mean different things when they use the term, the problem Democrats have with it is largely one of framing and rhetorical adroitness. There are ways to talk about civil rights, as a catchall term, that are both inspirational and stem the bleeding, Barrack Obama is particularly talented at that, but there are other Democratic politicians who aren't as ham-handed on the subject as the other most recent major Democratic standard-bearers.

The reason Democrats aren't winning is because voters who agree, all other things being equal, that Democrats are the best available choice, aren't voting consistently if at all. There are a lot of plausible explanations for that and not a single clearly proven way of reversing the trend, but Democrats aren't losing because of voters who find them off-putting and tend to prefer Republican narratives about things like identity politics anyway, they're losing because their own voters are arguing over what a Democrat should be.

[Northwestern Scenario]

I think the Democrats should forgo identity and become the party of plural individuals. If fewer Latin Americans voted for Clinton than Obama, despite a campaign which generally focused on "their interests" more than previous ones, I think it tells us a very clear message: people do not like being treated as blocks according to their identity. Rather than appealing to various groups' identities in ways which degrade their dignity, the Democratic Party can adequately recover by appealing to people according to interests and ideals. No room for identity politics, only economic justice and constitutional patriotism.

[Hittanryan]

Because demonization of white men has worked out so well, right? We only lost the House, Senate, Presidency, Supreme Court, most governorships, and most state governments. Yeah that's a real fucking winning formula obviously. We gotta double down on what has worked so well so far. I'm not shutting up until the party unfucks itself and starts winning elections again. We keep doing what we've been doing and we're going to be stuck with 8 goddamned years of Trump or Pence in the White House and a Congress determined to fist the American public to death through garbage economic and social policy.

I don't want the Democratic Party to stop caring about civil rights. I support gay marriage. I support racial equality. I support gender equality. I oppose discrimination against any American. I oppose unwarranted police brutality against any American. What I want the Democrats to do is to stop catering to divisive, aimless idiots like Black Lives Matter, Tumblrette feminists, and useless social science academics. They are never going to be satisfied. All they do is complain without proposing real solutions, driving away voters.

The party hasn't demonized white men though, and the only persons claiming that it has are people who have never had any intention of voting for Democrats and are pushing a political agenda hoping to make that strawman take permanent root. Have "identity politics" been divisive? Sure, but people mean different things when they use the term, the problem Democrats have with it is largely one of framing and rhetorical adroitness. There are ways to talk about civil rights, as a catchall term, that are both inspirational and stem the bleeding, Barrack Obama is particularly talented at that, but there are other Democratic politicians who aren't as ham-handed on the subject as the other most recent major Democratic standard-bearers.

The reason Democrats aren't winning is because voters who agree, all other things being equal, that Democrats are the best available choice, aren't voting consistently if at all. There are a lot of plausible explanations for that and not a single clearly proven way of reversing the trend, but Democrats aren't losing because of voters who find them off-putting and tend to prefer Republican narratives about things like identity politics anyway, they're losing because their own voters are arguing over what a Democrat should be.

I wasn't saying the party had demonized white men but the original poster I was replying to. Note how I bolded the offending bit. In following posts I also explained that this is a rhetoric problem, not a policy one.

It's not Democratic politicians that are doing the demonizing, generally. The trouble is they pander to surrogates who do, and then it doesn't even pay off. Clinton for example kept pandering to Black Lives Matter to try to get the black vote, only to end up with a lower black turnout than Obama. Meanwhile her speaking in support of violent idiots alienated others.

[Collatis]

Lessons for Dems looking to 2018: Compete everywhere

1. Motivating less-likely Democratic voters while persuading independents and soft Republicans (especially women) are not conflicting goals. We did both, aggressively imploring Democrats to send a message in Trump’s backyard, while talking to all voters about issues that transcend partisan politics. Pellegrino’s record of activism as a mother and a public-school teacher aligned her priorities with those of this solidly middle-class, suburban district. We told her story in a way that allowed voters to connect with her life experience and accomplishments.

2. Connecting with working-class values matters, especially on issues that are local and granular. We must be powerful champions for solutions to the problems that threaten our communities, from opioid addiction to environmental threats to our water and air to corrosive political corruption. These problems cross party lines, harm all taxpayers, and undermine confidence in government.

3. Challenging a rigged system can build broad coalitions for progressives. Voters from across the political spectrum see the super-wealthy, big corporations and polluters, and special interests like charter school backers as receiving special favors from politicians and in need of a check. We didn’t hide Christine’s progressive views but rather leaned into them to frame the choice.

4. Breaking down the silos of messaging. We ensured that what voters saw in mailboxes and in our digital program linked with what we were saying on the doors and on the phones. Too often, these different voter communications tools are seen as separate departments and through completely different lenses. The power of reinforcement matters, especially with turning out infrequent voters.

[Gauthier]

Funny how Identity Politics is a losing idea, unless it's White Identity Politics as the Republicans have been doing for ages.

[Keldros]

The Democrats don't need the bitter clingers to their guns and religion. The key to victory is to double down on transgender bathrooms, demanding that Christian business owners bake gay wedding cakes, and importing more Third World stoop labor because diversity is our strength.

[Valrifell]

The Democrats don't need the bitter clingers to their guns and religion. The key to victory is to double down on transgender bathrooms, demanding that Christian business owners bake gay wedding cakes, and importing more Third World stoop labor because diversity is our strength.

This guy gets it!

[Saiwania]

The key to Democratic victory is to simply beat Republicans on the issues. Go for progressive populism. What the hell does the party have to lose if it isn't winning now by staying with corporate neo-liberalism?

Getting taken over by Bernie Sanders types and Justice Democrats, is the best path that the Democratic party could plausibly choose.

[Valrifell]

The key to Democratic victory is to simply beat Republicans on the issues. Go for progressive populism. What the hell does the party have to lose if it isn't winning now by staying with corporate neo-liberalism?

Getting taken over by Bernie Sanders types and Justice Democrats, is the best path that the Democratic party could plausibly choose.

But that's not going to work all the time in all the areas. Surprisingly enough, people are put off by how left-leaning the Sanders Types are. Allowing for a complete takeover might help nationally (in the polls) and for a select few states, but overall I think a 100% Progressive Democrat Party would get steamrolled.

[MERIZoC]

The key to Democratic victory is to simply beat Republicans on the issues. Go for progressive populism. What the hell does the party have to lose if it isn't winning now by staying with corporate neo-liberalism?

Getting taken over by Bernie Sanders types and Justice Democrats, is the best path that the Democratic party could plausibly choose.

But that's not going to work all the time in all the areas. Surprisingly enough, people are put off by how left-leaning the Sanders Types are. Allowing for a complete takeover might help nationally (in the polls) and for a select few states, but overall I think a 100% Progressive Democrat Party would get steamrolled.

Republicans and dipshit pundits on twitter, yes. Nobody that actually matters when it comes to getting votes.

Think of any politician in the United States you can. Bernie Sanders is vastly more popular than them. There's a reason for that.

[Hittanryan]

The key to Democratic victory is to simply beat Republicans on the issues. Go for progressive populism. What the hell does the party have to lose if it isn't winning now by staying with corporate neo-liberalism?

Getting taken over by Bernie Sanders types and Justice Democrats, is the best path that the Democratic party could plausibly choose.

But that's not going to work all the time in all the areas. Surprisingly enough, people are put off by how left-leaning the Sanders Types are. Allowing for a complete takeover might help nationally (in the polls) and for a select few states, but overall I think a 100% Progressive Democrat Party would get steamrolled.

As opposed to the position of unparalleled strength we find ourselves in now?

[Neo Balka]

But that's not going to work all the time in all the areas. Surprisingly enough, people are put off by how left-leaning the Sanders Types are. Allowing for a complete takeover might help nationally (in the polls) and for a select few states, but overall I think a 100% Progressive Democrat Party would get steamrolled.

Republicans and dipshit pundits on twitter, yes. Nobody that actually matters when it comes to getting votes.

Think of any politician in the United States you can. Bernie Sanders is vastly more popular than them. There's a reason for that.

Too bad the DNC played queen maker.

[Valrifell]

But that's not going to work all the time in all the areas. Surprisingly enough, people are put off by how left-leaning the Sanders Types are. Allowing for a complete takeover might help nationally (in the polls) and for a select few states, but overall I think a 100% Progressive Democrat Party would get steamrolled.

As opposed to the position of unparalleled strength we find ourselves in now?

I'm not advocating for one extreme over the other, the two wings of the party can, in fact, co-exist.

They just need to learn how to use each other for maximum gain. And to, you know, play nice.

[Hittanryan]

As opposed to the position of unparalleled strength we find ourselves in now?

I'm not advocating for one extreme over the other, the two wings of the party can, in fact, co-exist.

They just need to learn how to use each other for maximum gain. And to, you know, play nice.

Niceness in American politics was killed by Gingrich's Republican Revolution.

[Keldros]

Republicans and dipshit pundits on twitter, yes. Nobody that actually matters when it comes to getting votes.

Think of any politician in the United States you can. Bernie Sanders is vastly more popular than them. There's a reason for that.

Did you see or attend any Bernie rallies last year? They were as white as a Whole Foods market on Saturday. Sanders got consistently BTFO in every state with a significant minority population. He's popular among white college kids who hope he can somehow make their student loan debts go away, but that isn't enough to carry a general election.

[Hittanryan]

Republicans and dipshit pundits on twitter, yes. Nobody that actually matters when it comes to getting votes.

Think of any politician in the United States you can. Bernie Sanders is vastly more popular than them. There's a reason for that.

Did you see or attend any Bernie rallies last year? They were as white as a Whole Foods market on Saturday. Sanders got consistently BTFO in every state with a significant minority population. He's popular among white college kids who hope he can somehow make their student loan debts go away, but that isn't enough to carry a general election.

Won most of the states in the primary which would cost Clinton the general.