UN considering making "Cultural Appropriation" illegal

[Olerand]

Impossible. No Frenchman or woman would lower themselves to the level of laying with an Anglo barbarian. /s

I hardly have any Anglo. I'm mostly German-Irish with a lot of French stuck in their. Well I'm part French Canadian but somewhere down the line they where once French

French Canadian. Ah, our abandoned bastard children. Their fate is most unfortunate, I really like Québec province, but the Québécois people and language are... Something else. And let's not get started on the Acadians and the Cajuns (I, personally, completely disown the Cajuns).

[Finswedeway]

Questions for the peeps who support this... all 6 of you.

How nit-picky would you want it to be? Would you go so far as to say that an African person should be obligated by law to not eat Asian food? To what extent would you want this to go?

It just seems so hard to differentiate between enjoying something and saying "I like this, I want more of this," and "appropriating," someone else's culture.

To preface: I don't think businesses should be held back from doing things which don't harm anyone (this does not include hurting people's feelings). I also don't think we should force anyone to uphold traditions or force them to not uphold said traditions. If a tradition dies out, then that's that.

No one cared that norse mythology died out, so why should anyone care about your ancestral taco being absolved into a world-wide thing? Weak argument, I know.

But I have German ancestry. I don't fucking care that hamburgers are now widely recognised as an American thing. The US made it it's own, and that's fine by me.

I also have a portion of native-American in me, does that entitle me to wear feather headdresses, even though I'm whiter than rice? (Which is delicious, by the way. Especially with kimchi. But the only Korean connection I have is through my step-father. So is that "appropriation?")

Culture is fluid, and always subject to change. We can't stop cultural progression for the sake of some people's feelings... right?

[Cetacea]

and yet noone is saying that its offensive to eat tacos, only that Russians making a product called real Mexican taco's is crap

equally an American designer producing Romanian Coat and calling it African is creating a product with false cultural details and that is equally crap.

Except that's not at all what this campaign is. I quote from the link: obligate states to create effective criminal and civil enforcement procedures to recognize and prevent the non-consensual taking and illegitimate possession, sale and export of traditional cultural expressions. The possession, sale, and export of traditional cultural expressions. How is that like anything like what you described?

This isn't an appellation issue, it's an offense issue. People aren't offended the taco is being called American taco, they're offended Americans are making/eating/shitting out tacos. Which, as the taco was not created by Americans in the year 1650, is clearly beyond an American's purview.

If Mexico wants to protect Mexican taco makers, all power to them. If you are offended the taco is being made/consumed/handled/possessed/sold/exported by Americans, that's a different issue.

so illegitimate possession for sale and export is somehow confusing to you?

If I take a rare horny toad and try and export it to Sweden, I am breaking a law
if I try and sell Champagne that I brewed in New Zealand I am breaking the law
if I try and sell a Romanian coat by calling it African then the Romanians get to clamp down

no one said I can't wear the coat or eat tacos, I just can't eat them or try and wear them as a hat

[Olerand]

Except that's not at all what this campaign is. I quote from the link: obligate states to create effective criminal and civil enforcement procedures to recognize and prevent the non-consensual taking and illegitimate possession, sale and export of traditional cultural expressions. The possession, sale, and export of traditional cultural expressions. How is that like anything like what you described?

This isn't an appellation issue, it's an offense issue. People aren't offended the taco is being called American taco, they're offended Americans are making/eating/shitting out tacos. Which, as the taco was not created by Americans in the year 1650, is clearly beyond an American's purview.

If Mexico wants to protect Mexican taco makers, all power to them. If you are offended the taco is being made/consumed/handled/possessed/sold/exported by Americans, that's a different issue.

so illegitimate possession for sale and export is somehow confusing to you?

If I take a rare horny toad and try and export it to Sweden, I am breaking a law
if I try and sell Champagne that I brewed in New Zealand I am breaking the law
if I try and sell a Romanian coat by calling it African then the Romanians get to clamp down

no one said I can't wear the coat or eat tacos, I just can't eat them or try and wear them as a hat

No, not at all, I just don't understand how that relates to your post.

And again, if this was a defense of Navajo headdress makers, I'm all for it. If this an offense that Americans are wearing Navajo headdresses (which it is), then it has nothing to do with appellation laws.

[Sovaal]

Hey guys. You know what the UN could have been good for?
Directly challenging the USA and Great Britain when they launched their little Iraq War for Oil by making up some bullshit about WMDs.

But no, the UN is flawed and is full of cowards, just like it's predecessor, the League of Nations.

I in fact have 10 more examples of the UN failing. Let's list them all.

1. El Al Israel Flight 426- They "condemned" this hijacking, but did not make one move to stop it. This event paved the way to modern terrorism, leading straight to 9/11, the Bali Bombings, the Paris Attacks, etc.
2. Nuclear Proliferation- They condemned nuclear weapons, but did not dissuade the US, Russia, and other Nuclear armed nations from continuing their nuclear programs.
3. Sri Lankan Civil War- 6500 innocent civilians lost their lives in a genocidal bloodbath as the UN watched and failed to do anything to stop it.
4. Bosnia, Kosovo, Cambodia, Haiti, and Mozambique Prostitution by UN Peacekeepers- I do not have to go into the graphic details for you to see why this was a clusterfuck.
5. Veto Power of China and Russia- The powers of these two UN members stopped a resolution that could have stopped the Syrian Civil war by sending in Peacekeepers. To this date, an estimated 60,000 civilians have been killed, with thousands more displaced.
6. Srebrenica Massacre- The UN failed to supply peacekeepers with supplies and ammunition to stop the bloodbath that killed 7,800 Bosniaks.
7. Khmer Rouge- Until 1994, the United Nations recognised the Khmer Rouge as the true government of Cambodia, despite the fact that they had killed 2.5 million Cambodians, amounting to 33% of their total population. Utter bullshit.
8. The Cold War- The UN has a charter, but is powerless to enforce it in a totalitarian superpower. Again, utter bullshit.
9. Darfur- 300,000 Sudanese civilians die because of the utter incompetence of the bureaucratic morass that is the UN.
10. Rwandan Genocide- The most unforgivable of them all, this failing led to the deaths of 850,000 innocent civilians, as well as heavy casualties suffered by UN peacekeepers, who were powerless to stop a devastating genocide, despite their brave and desperate efforts. New York completely isolated them.




Case in point? The UN is incompetent and needs something else to replace it.

So the UN sending in peacekeepers is a problem, but them nt sending in peacekeepers is a problem.

Also, I don't see as to how UN peacekeepers would stop IS in Syria.

[Longweather]

Except this isn't an issue in Europe, and this wasn't brought to the UN by the Europeans. Read the links.

We're not "progressive" in that way that Anglos keep gloating about being anyway.

Yes that's because when the English fight to protect Stilton Cheese and the French fight to protect Champagne nobody makes a big fuss about primitives holding up Business, they just give them an international protocol.

But heaven forbid thus uppity natives in Navajo land start asking for the same recognition as is given to European regions

It's not much recognition. For the most part, it's the names that can't be used. Just call the designs a different name, maybe use a slightly different shade, and people would get around such protections much like they do now.

Except that's not at all what this campaign is. I quote from the link: obligate states to create effective criminal and civil enforcement procedures to recognize and prevent the non-consensual taking and illegitimate possession, sale and export of traditional cultural expressions. The possession, sale, and export of traditional cultural expressions. How is that like anything like what you described?

This isn't an appellation issue, it's an offense issue. People aren't offended the taco is being called American taco, they're offended Americans are making/eating/shitting out tacos. Which, as the taco was not created by Americans in the year 1650, is clearly beyond an American's purview.

If Mexico wants to protect Mexican taco makers, all power to them. If you are offended the taco is being made/consumed/handled/possessed/sold/exported by Americans, that's a different issue.

so illegitimate possession for sale and export is somehow confusing to you?

If I take a rare horny toad and try and export it to Sweden, I am breaking a law
if I try and sell Champagne that I brewed in New Zealand I am breaking the law
if I try and sell a Romanian coat by calling it African then the Romanians get to clamp down

no one said I can't wear the coat or eat tacos, I just can't eat them or try and wear them as a hat

-Who said anything about an animal?
-You can definitely sell champagne from New Zealand legally. You just call it "sparkling wine" or one of the multitudes of names that other people have come up with to get around the limit.
-Selling a Romanian coat by calling it African would technically be false advertising which is something all consumers should be against and protected from. Calling the Romanian coat something like "Romanian cich" or something of the like while slightly changing things up... maybe change the fabric... might work. That's pretty much exactly what happens with champagne and bourbon.

[Proctopeo]

Hey guys. You know what the UN could have been good for?
Directly challenging the USA and Great Britain when they launched their little Iraq War for Oil by making up some bullshit about WMDs.

But no, the UN is flawed and is full of cowards, just like it's predecessor, the League of Nations.

I in fact have 10 more examples of the UN failing. Let's list them all.

1. El Al Israel Flight 426- They "condemned" this hijacking, but did not make one move to stop it. This event paved the way to modern terrorism, leading straight to 9/11, the Bali Bombings, the Paris Attacks, etc.
2. Nuclear Proliferation- They condemned nuclear weapons, but did not dissuade the US, Russia, and other Nuclear armed nations from continuing their nuclear programs.
3. Sri Lankan Civil War- 6500 innocent civilians lost their lives in a genocidal bloodbath as the UN watched and failed to do anything to stop it.
4. Bosnia, Kosovo, Cambodia, Haiti, and Mozambique Prostitution by UN Peacekeepers- I do not have to go into the graphic details for you to see why this was a clusterfuck.
5. Veto Power of China and Russia- The powers of these two UN members stopped a resolution that could have stopped the Syrian Civil war by sending in Peacekeepers. To this date, an estimated 60,000 civilians have been killed, with thousands more displaced.
6. Srebrenica Massacre- The UN failed to supply peacekeepers with supplies and ammunition to stop the bloodbath that killed 7,800 Bosniaks.
7. Khmer Rouge- Until 1994, the United Nations recognised the Khmer Rouge as the true government of Cambodia, despite the fact that they had killed 2.5 million Cambodians, amounting to 33% of their total population. Utter bullshit.
8. The Cold War- The UN has a charter, but is powerless to enforce it in a totalitarian superpower. Again, utter bullshit.
9. Darfur- 300,000 Sudanese civilians die because of the utter incompetence of the bureaucratic morass that is the UN.
10. Rwandan Genocide- The most unforgivable of them all, this failing led to the deaths of 850,000 innocent civilians, as well as heavy casualties suffered by UN peacekeepers, who were powerless to stop a devastating genocide, despite their brave and desperate efforts. New York completely isolated them.




Case in point? The UN is incompetent and needs something else to replace it.

So the UN sending in peacekeepers is a problem, but them nt sending in peacekeepers is a problem.

Also, I don't see as to how UN peacekeepers would stop IS in Syria.

I think their point was that morally bankrupt Peacekeepers are a problem, not Peacekeepers in general. Which is true.

The primary thing that the League of Nations failed at that the UN hasn't (yet) is preventing another World War. Didn't do super well with the "prevent people from trying to take over the world", either, but better than the League, at least. The USSR got a head start before it formed, after all.

[Internationalist Bastard]

*sigh*

[Internationalist Bastard]

So the UN sending in peacekeepers is a problem, but them nt sending in peacekeepers is a problem.

Also, I don't see as to how UN peacekeepers would stop IS in Syria.

I think their point was that morally bankrupt Peacekeepers are a problem, not Peacekeepers in general. Which is true.

The primary thing that the League of Nations failed at that the UN hasn't (yet) is preventing another World War. Didn't do super well with the "prevent people from trying to take over the world", either, but better than the League, at least. The USSR got a head start before it formed, after all.

Of course we got lots of dick peacekeepers. I'd say it's slightly more common then dick cops though, still bad and needs to be cracked down on, but not the epidemic people think

[James_xenoland]

I didn't vote. As "Defund the UN" doesn't sound like it goes far enough.. Not because of this though, we were already well past that point before this.

But still. Even for the UN,... wow!

[Ever Victorious Iron Willed Commanders]

Freedom of speech, people. This is completely unenforceable and unconstitutional (well, not that that matters to a international organization).

[Liriena]

Found the original source.

I get the point that its proponents are trying to make... but it seems a bit off to me. Treating elements of a culture as some sort of collective intellectual property is rather counter-intuitive, given that cultures generally don't grow in a vacuum and their elements are often the product of intercultural exchanges.

I'm honestly torn on this. It's a baffling idea, and one that kind of goes against my interculturalist ideals, but there is some logic to it, albeit a rather flimsy one. I mean, I'm not against the idea of trying to deter, say, European clothing manufacturers from profiting off garments falsely marketed as "real Maori", or whoever came up with the "Doctor Ming's Chinese tea" weight-loss scam... but unless it's something as blatant as that, how is the appropriation going to be determined?

[Chuching]

This is a very good measure. As I am a quarter Italian, I believe that non-Italians should not be allowed to eat pizza. I am also 1/8th German, and I am frankly tired of these racist, non-German idiots drinking beer. But what really bugs me is that I am 12% Irish, and these racist pigs who aren't even Irish eat potatoes - or even wear green shirts! Such vile racist pigs who perform cultural appropriation should be exiled into uncivilized places such as Texas.

But potatoes are from the Americas, so obviously the Irish will be forced to stop eating them.

Hmm. Those idiotic cultural appropriators! They are getting me confused! And now that I think about it, pasta is Chinese! I HATE MARCO POLO! HE IS THE GODFATHER* OF CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!! So any non-Chinese people who eat pasta are racists! That means all Italian restaurants must be shut down! Well, society will benefit - less cultural appropriation, more inclusion. Each culture can be separate now, there will be no need for them to mix.
Hell, why not deport everyone(In every country) back to their country of origin? That will make cultural appropriation impossible... but what if they still culturally appropriate from indigenous peoples? This is so complicated!

*No racist slur associating Italians with the Mafia was intended. After all, not a single Italian has ever been a member of the Mafia.

[Cetacea]

Not unless the individual who designed it is still alive, or lived recently.

That makes sense in the context of western laws because western culture is extremely individualistic. But most indigenous cultures are much more collectivistic than that.

Precisely. I've never understood why I can claim rights to my great grandfathers art but not to that of my great great great grandfather or even my great*30 grandmother. If her 10000 descendents form a Trust then why can't we claim copy rights.

[Sareva]

Found the original source.

I get the point that its proponents are trying to make... but it seems a bit off to me. Treating elements of a culture as some sort of collective intellectual property is rather counter-intuitive, given that cultures generally don't grow in a vacuum and their elements are often the product of intercultural exchanges.

I'm honestly torn on this. It's a baffling idea, and one that kind of goes against my interculturalist ideals, but there is some logic to it, albeit a rather flimsy one. I mean, I'm not against the idea of trying to deter, say, European clothing manufacturers from profiting off garments falsely marketed as "real Maori", or whoever came up with the "Doctor Ming's Chinese tea" weight-loss scam... but unless it's something as blatant as that, how is the appropriation going to be determined?

Not to mention the fact that "cultural appropriation" is such a broad and malleable term that anyone can be accused of it. That's why the entire concept is idiotic and pointless to me. I also think of anyone who espouses the concept as a secret racist and closet Klan-supporter, no matter their ethnic or racial background.

[Harbertia]

They do realize that 'cultural appropriation' is part of bringing the world closer together yeah?

[Liriena]

They do realize that 'cultural appropriation' is part of bringing the world closer together yeah?

I mean, I'm as annoyed by fake Maori stuff in brand clothing, fake "traditional oriental medicine", and really lame "ethnic" costumes as much as the next guy, but yeah. Cultural interaction is not a bad thing in and of itself.

[Stormwrath]

Calm down, peoples of the world. They're only considering, not actually implementing it.

[Harbertia]

Calm down, peoples of the world. They're only considering, not actually implementing it.

Consideration leads to planning and planning leads to execution.

[Republic of the Cristo]

... So will white people be unable to sing rap songs? Will people living outside of America be allowed create baseball leagues? Will Chinese restaurants only exist in China? Will liberal democracy be banned in all non-white countries? Will anime be banned from all countries except Japan ( scratch that, this is a great idea )!

[Greater Miami Shores]

You read the title right, folks: the UN is considering making "cultural appropriation" of indigenous cultural things illegal.. And an article with opposite slant for balance.

What do you think, NSG? Is this reasonable? Is it too authoritarian? Or is it just absurd?

In my personal opinion, this is 1) authoritarian and tyrannical, 2) absurd, and 3) dangerous. I do, however, think at least their heart is in their right place and this doesn't appear to be out of malice, but out of stupidity (t. Hanlon's Razor); essentially, their intentions are well, but their actions aren't.
Hope I did it right yall

I like the indian girl. I like horses, and horse races. Race horses should be named Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and Running Bull, in honour of the native American Indians. But native American Indians are not real natives either, as they also came from somewhere else. Yellow hand dosent fit. But it is the greatest indian movie ever made.

[Sterkistan]

This is fucking stupid, the UN shouldn't be trying to control shit they're too dysfunctional to control. They should stick to climate change and keep their noses out of personal lives.

[Cetacea]

You read the title right, folks: the UN is considering making "cultural appropriation" of indigenous cultural things illegal.. And an article with opposite slant for balance.

What do you think, NSG? Is this reasonable? Is it too authoritarian? Or is it just absurd?

In my personal opinion, this is 1) authoritarian and tyrannical, 2) absurd, and 3) dangerous. I do, however, think at least their heart is in their right place and this doesn't appear to be out of malice, but out of stupidity (t. Hanlon's Razor); essentially, their intentions are well, but their actions aren't.
Hope I did it right yall

I like the indian girl. I like horses, and horse races. Race horses should be named Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and Running Bull, in honour of the native American Indians. But native American Indians are not real natives either, as they also came from somewhere else. Yellow hand dosent fit. But it is the greatest indian movie ever made.

Every creature on earth came from somewhere else, so what's Native?

[Greater Miami Shores]

I like the indian girl. I like horses, and horse races. Race horses should be named Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and Running Bull, in honour of the native American Indians. But native American Indians are not real natives either, as they also came from somewhere else. Yellow hand dosent fit. But it is the greatest indian movie ever made.

Every creature on earth came from somewhere else, so what's Native?

Exactly my point, which you posted your way, in your own way. Good post.

[Auristania]

I like the indian girl. I like horses, and horse races. Race horses should be named Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and Running Bull, in honour of the native American Indians. But native American Indians are not real natives either, as they also came from somewhere else. Yellow hand dosent fit. But it is the greatest indian movie ever made.

Every creature on earth came from somewhere else, so what's Native?

Native Americans only learnt horse-riding from Europeans, so they will have to give the horses back.