[UK] General Election 2017 Superthread

[Calladan]

So much drama in this election. What is this, America?

(smirk) Well there is a woman that a lot of people appear to despise representing the Blue Party, but sadly the man representing the Red Party is not a fucking lunatic man-child who blurts out every single thought that crosses his mind and doesn't seem to be missing the self-control that god graced a 5 year old child with.

So - I am going to say no.

[The Wolfiad]

Seriously, anyone who tactically votes SNP to 'keep out the Tories' is no socialist. You're voting for austerity and should hand your head in shame, plus socialism is internationalist not nationalist. Either vote Labour or Lib Dem (in some seats, like Edinburgh West).

could this finally be it, the day that wolfmanne realizes that FPTP is actually really shit?

Yup. A majority bonus system should be introduced so that the party that gets the most votes are allocated additional seats to ensure both stability in government and more ease in forming a government should there be a hung parliament.

[Souseiseki]

could this finally be it, the day that wolfmanne realizes that FPTP is actually really shit?

Yup. A majority bonus system should be introduced so that the party that gets the most votes are allocated additional seats to ensure both stability in government and more ease in forming a government should there be a hung parliament.

problem: people can win entire seats with 20-30% of the votes
solution: activate DABURU SEATO mode

e: or does this work at a national scale?

[The Wolfiad]

Yup. A majority bonus system should be introduced so that the party that gets the most votes are allocated additional seats to ensure both stability in government and more ease in forming a government should there be a hung parliament.

problem: people can win entire seats with 20-30% of the votes
solution: activate DABURU SEATO mode

Works though.

The alternative is wait for the SNP to decline in favour of Labour. I mean at some point SNP voters are going to realise it's insanity not to vote for the party that can actually change their circumstances for the better. The UK is a two-party system, so people will realise that the party that doesn't even stand in all constituencies is a wasted vote.

[Chestaan]

problem: people can win entire seats with 20-30% of the votes
solution: activate DABURU SEATO mode

Works though.

The alternative is wait for the SNP to decline in favour of Labour. I mean at some point SNP voters are going to realise it's insanity not to vote for the party that can actually change their circumstances for the better. The UK is a two-party system, so people will realise that the party that doesn't even stand in all constituencies is a wasted vote.

Pure PR would be far better, allows you to support your favourite candidate while also vote for the lesser evil that has a chance of winning.

[The Wolfiad]

Works though.

The alternative is wait for the SNP to decline in favour of Labour. I mean at some point SNP voters are going to realise it's insanity not to vote for the party that can actually change their circumstances for the better. The UK is a two-party system, so people will realise that the party that doesn't even stand in all constituencies is a wasted vote.

Pure PR would be far better, allows you to support your favourite candidate while also vote for the lesser evil that has a chance of winning.

No it's rubbish for reasons I've explained in the past and the reason you've given is one of them.

[Calladan]

Yup. A majority bonus system should be introduced so that the party that gets the most votes are allocated additional seats to ensure both stability in government and more ease in forming a government should there be a hung parliament.

problem: people can win entire seats with 20-30% of the votes
solution: activate DABURU SEATO mode

e: or does this work at a national scale?

I am not a fanatical fan of First Past, but randomly assigning seats based on who gets the most votes is just insane. If we are going to go down an AV system then lets at least do it in a grown up way - AV, STV or something plausible.

[The Wolfiad]

problem: people can win entire seats with 20-30% of the votes
solution: activate DABURU SEATO mode

e: or does this work at a national scale?

I am not a fanatical fan of First Past, but randomly assigning seats based on who gets the most votes is just insane. If we are going to go down an AV system then lets at least do it in a grown up way - AV, STV or something plausible.

Just to clarify, I still think we should keep FPTP just with a majority bonus system. Not advocating any switch to PR.

[Souseiseki]

I am not a fanatical fan of First Past, but randomly assigning seats based on who gets the most votes is just insane. If we are going to go down an AV system then lets at least do it in a grown up way - AV, STV or something plausible.

Just to clarify, I still think we should keep FPTP just with a majority bonus system. Not advocating any switch to PR.

what if the party with the most votes isn't the one that won the most seats? :thinking:

[The Wolfiad]

Just to clarify, I still think we should keep FPTP just with a majority bonus system. Not advocating any switch to PR.

what if the party with the most votes isn't the one that won the most seats? :thinking:

Allocate overhang seats until a majority is reached.

[Socialist Nordia]

I am not a fanatical fan of First Past, but randomly assigning seats based on who gets the most votes is just insane. If we are going to go down an AV system then lets at least do it in a grown up way - AV, STV or something plausible.

Just to clarify, I still think we should keep FPTP just with a majority bonus system. Not advocating any switch to PR.

But PR would take away almost all of the SNP's significance. Isn't that what you want?

[The Wolfiad]

Just to clarify, I still think we should keep FPTP just with a majority bonus system. Not advocating any switch to PR.

But PR would take away almost all of the SNP's significance. Isn't that what you want?

No, I dislike PR because I think it's bad for democracy and my hatred of one party won't make me support a system I think is bad for democracy.

[Calladan]

But PR would take away almost all of the SNP's significance. Isn't that what you want?

No, I dislike PR because I think it's bad for democracy and my hatred of one party won't make me support a system I think is bad for democracy.

But randomly giving out seats based on what could arguably described (in some cases) as gerrymandered constituencies is good for democracy?

(I realise we are getting off the topic of the election here, and into UK electoral democracy, but *shrug* unless something big comes up I am not sure what more we can talk about in regard to the election. I mean - if May pulls off her human mask and reveals her true face of evil, that would be worth talking about, but what are the odds of that?

And yes - I know. Political nicknames are not allowed. Sorry!)

[Chestaan]

But PR would take away almost all of the SNP's significance. Isn't that what you want?

No, I dislike PR because I think it's bad for democracy and my hatred of one party won't make me support a system I think is bad for democracy.

The seats are allocated in a more proportional manner than FPTP, how is that possibly bad for democracy?

[The Wolfiad]

No, I dislike PR because I think it's bad for democracy and my hatred of one party won't make me support a system I think is bad for democracy.

-snip-

They aren't gerrymandered, that's why we have an independent boundary commission.

Just for the record, I'm not here to debate the specific merits of FPTP, PR etc. I'll probably write up something in my NS factbook about FPTP so you guys have something to respond to whenever I advocate in favour for it, because it seems like I always give the same points that are always ignored because 'ma proportionality' (which is not a good argument).

No, I dislike PR because I think it's bad for democracy and my hatred of one party won't make me support a system I think is bad for democracy.

The seats are allocated in a more proportional manner than FPTP, how is that possibly bad for democracy?

If it's bad for democracy, why was electoral reform rejected in a referendum in 2011 where there were only two choices - Yes to electoral reform, No to electoral reform? FPTP is democratically supported by the British people.

[Socialist Nordia]

But PR would take away almost all of the SNP's significance. Isn't that what you want?

No, I dislike PR because I think it's bad for democracy and my hatred of one party won't make me support a system I think is bad for democracy.

How is it worse for democracy? If, say, 42% support the Conservatives, and 38% support Labour, or any other variant of that, shouldn't the composition of parliament accurately reflect that in a democratic system?

[The Wolfiad]

No, I dislike PR because I think it's bad for democracy and my hatred of one party won't make me support a system I think is bad for democracy.

How is it worse for democracy? If, say, 42% support the Conservatives, and 38% support Labour, or any other variant of that, shouldn't the composition of parliament accurately reflect that in a democratic system?

No.

[Souseiseki]

http://newsthump.com/2017/06/05/uk-hasn ... terrorism/

wonderful as always

How is it worse for democracy? If, say, 42% support the Conservatives, and 38% support Labour, or any other variant of that, shouldn't the composition of parliament accurately reflect that in a democratic system?

No.

why?

[Nova Stephania]

The seats are allocated in a more proportional manner than FPTP, how is that possibly bad for democracy?

If it's bad for democracy, why was electoral reform rejected in a referendum in 2011 where there were only two choices - Yes to electoral reform, No to electoral reform? FPTP is democratically supported by the British people.

It might be something to do with all the bald-faced lies about people getting to vote twice, and how the cost of voting machines (which were never proposed) would kill sick babies in hospital and our serving soldiers abroad.

[The Wolfiad]

http://newsthump.com/2017/06/05/uk-hasnt-done-enough-to-tackle-terrorism-says-woman-whose-job-it-was-to-tackle-terrorism/

wonderful as always

No.

why?

Is there a moral obligation for me to say so?

If it's bad for democracy, why was electoral reform rejected in a referendum in 2011 where there were only two choices - Yes to electoral reform, No to electoral reform? FPTP is democratically supported by the British people.

It might be something to do with all the bald-faced lies about people getting to vote twice, and how the cost of voting machines (which were never proposed) would kill sick babies in hospital and our serving soldiers abroad.

67.90% is a pretty resounding vote and before the campaign even begun polling showed No was in a pretty resounding lead as well.

[Geilinor]

-snip-

They aren't gerrymandered, that's why we have an independent boundary commission.

Just for the record, I'm not here to debate the specific merits of FPTP, PR etc. I'll probably write up something in my NS factbook about FPTP so you guys have something to respond to whenever I advocate in favour for it, because it seems like I always give the same points that are always ignored because 'ma proportionality' (which is not a good argument).

The seats are allocated in a more proportional manner than FPTP, how is that possibly bad for democracy?

If it's bad for democracy, why was electoral reform rejected in a referendum in 2011 where there were only two choices - Yes to electoral reform, No to electoral reform? FPTP is democratically supported by the British people.

It's bad for democracy to reconsider an idea if it's been rejected once?

[The Wolfiad]

They aren't gerrymandered, that's why we have an independent boundary commission.

Just for the record, I'm not here to debate the specific merits of FPTP, PR etc. I'll probably write up something in my NS factbook about FPTP so you guys have something to respond to whenever I advocate in favour for it, because it seems like I always give the same points that are always ignored because 'ma proportionality' (which is not a good argument).


If it's bad for democracy, why was electoral reform rejected in a referendum in 2011 where there were only two choices - Yes to electoral reform, No to electoral reform? FPTP is democratically supported by the British people.

It's bad for democracy to reconsider an idea if it's been rejected once?

Yes, referendums should be an once-in-a-generation decision, not something that happens every Thursday.

[Calladan]

-snip-

They aren't gerrymandered, that's why we have an independent boundary commission.

Just for the record, I'm not here to debate the specific merits of FPTP, PR etc. I'll probably write up something in my NS factbook about FPTP so you guys have something to respond to whenever I advocate in favour for it, because it seems like I always give the same points that are always ignored because 'ma proportionality' (which is not a good argument).

The seats are allocated in a more proportional manner than FPTP, how is that possibly bad for democracy?

If it's bad for democracy, why was electoral reform rejected in a referendum in 2011 where there were only two choices - Yes to electoral reform, No to electoral reform? FPTP is democratically supported by the British people.

Oh come on! The AV referendum was about as "democratic" as the Brexit referendum! Don't get me wrong - I entirely accept the decision that came from it, and I accept that it was a democratic vote, but the campaign for the "no to AV vote" was nothing but scaremongering and terror tactics. "A VOTE FOR AV IS A VOTE FOR UKIP, THE BNP AND TERRORIST PARTIES".

It was utter bollocks and complete farce of a campaign. So while I accept that - in the technical sense - it was a "democratic vote" the idea that the public got a true picture of AV/PR is a pile of shit.

[Geilinor]

It's bad for democracy to reconsider an idea if it's been rejected once?

Yes, referendums should be an once-in-a-generation decision, not something that happens every Thursday.

Would it have to be a referendum?

[Chestaan]

-snip-

They aren't gerrymandered, that's why we have an independent boundary commission.

Just for the record, I'm not here to debate the specific merits of FPTP, PR etc. I'll probably write up something in my NS factbook about FPTP so you guys have something to respond to whenever I advocate in favour for it, because it seems like I always give the same points that are always ignored because 'ma proportionality' (which is not a good argument).

The seats are allocated in a more proportional manner than FPTP, how is that possibly bad for democracy?

If it's bad for democracy, why was electoral reform rejected in a referendum in 2011 where there were only two choices - Yes to electoral reform, No to electoral reform? FPTP is democratically supported by the British people.

If the British people voted to outlaw elections all together and instead have a system of absolute monarchy would that make absolute monarchy a democratic system and election a non-democratic system?