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Convergence (OOC, OPEN|Sci-FI Fandom Crossover|Halo, ME, SW)

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Ism
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Postby Ism » Fri May 26, 2017 9:56 pm

Athrax wrote:
TriStates wrote:
Upon being schooled in the physics of plasma, I agree :p

Some updates for the factions: The CIS battlegroup will no be referred to as "Dooku's Chosen". The UNSC flotilla is the "New Horizon Expedition". The Galactic Republic faction is the "Exploration Group Thracian". And the main Covenant Remnant faction is the "Wardens of Light" (i.e. Wardens)

This isn't done on whim. We simply have to many players in each of these factions to simply call them UNSC, CIS, Republic, etc. Besides, thats boring :)


Well now I'm obligated to at one point scatter a group of Grunts in terror by blocking a couple of plasma pistol shots :lol:


Keep your hands off muh grunts.

Brusia wrote:
Athrax wrote:
I'd think the UNSC weapons with proper full slugs would be turned into molten metal in the midst of the blade and then carry on through, which would certainly suck for the Jedi in question. ME weapons might just get vaporized since the actual physical round is so small

I figure that lead slugs would simply undergo sublimation on coming into contact with a plasma blade, given that lead boils at around 3000 degrees Celsius and cold plasma burns at several thousand degrees.


I guess the question then is how dangerous that would be. I mean, breathing in gaseous lead, even for a Jedi or Sith, seems like a bad idea.
Last edited by Ism on Fri May 26, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Athrax
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Postby Athrax » Fri May 26, 2017 9:58 pm

Ism wrote:
Athrax wrote:
Well now I'm obligated to at one point scatter a group of Grunts in terror by blocking a couple of plasma pistol shots :lol:


Keep your hands off muh grunts.

Kiron's hands will be at least a meter away at all times. I would never degrade Kiron by making him touch such a creature. His ligtsaber, however...

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Shadowwell
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Postby Shadowwell » Fri May 26, 2017 10:00 pm

Ism wrote:
Shadowwell wrote:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_power_shield

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Echani_shield

They are similar but different, The Mandalorian defends against melee as well, while the Echani is just energy and sonic.


I was aware Echani shields, I spent a good deal of time in those games, but the point was shields to protect against projectile weapons, which I don't think Echani shields would do.

I saw that, i ahd been trying to post that for a good several minutes, but other posts kept getting in the way.
Athrax wrote:
Shadowwell wrote:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_power_shield

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Echani_shield

They are similar but different, The Mandalorian defends against melee as well, while the Echani is just energy and sonic.
Ism wrote:
Yeah but Echani shields in that game were energy shields no? Mandalorian ones dealt with "physical" damage.


Ah, so it is. I could have sworn the Echani ones were the physical ones, since, you know, melee fighters and all that. Ah well, maybe just steal a Jackal's shield. Though that would work better for you, master. Size differences being what they are and all :p

Nah, he'll jsut rip the shield off of a hunter, :P.
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Brusia
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Postby Brusia » Fri May 26, 2017 10:01 pm

Athrax wrote:
Brusia wrote:I figure that lead slugs would simply undergo sublimation on coming into contact with a plasma blade, given that lead boils at around 3000 degrees Celsius and cold plasma burns at several thousand degrees.


I couldn't figure out where it was from, but I seem to remember this scenario popping up with a slugthrower and a lightsaber and the lightsaber-weilder had to beg off because of that

I mean, Tusken Raiders used slugthrowers and I don't remember Anakin having much trouble with them.

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Athrax
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Postby Athrax » Fri May 26, 2017 10:03 pm

Brusia wrote:
Athrax wrote:
I couldn't figure out where it was from, but I seem to remember this scenario popping up with a slugthrower and a lightsaber and the lightsaber-weilder had to beg off because of that

I mean, Tusken Raiders used slugthrowers and I don't remember Anakin having much trouble with them.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Slugthrower

Last paragraph

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Ism
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Postby Ism » Fri May 26, 2017 10:04 pm

Athrax wrote:
Ism wrote:
Keep your hands off muh grunts.

Kiron's hands will be at least a meter away at all times. I would never degrade Kiron by making him touch such a creature. His ligtsaber, however...


The last thing Kiron will hear are the war cries of the grunts.

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Athrax
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Postby Athrax » Fri May 26, 2017 10:05 pm

Ism wrote:
Athrax wrote:Kiron's hands will be at least a meter away at all times. I would never degrade Kiron by making him touch such a creature. His ligtsaber, however...


The last thing Kiron will hear are the war cries of the grunts.


This has me about 2 seconds from redownloading the Master Chief collection just to murder more grunts

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Ism
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Postby Ism » Fri May 26, 2017 10:06 pm

Athrax wrote:


This has me about 2 seconds from redownloading the Master Chief collection just to murder more grunts

:lol:

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TriStates
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Postby TriStates » Fri May 26, 2017 10:15 pm

IC link for those who have it not You can also find it on the front of the OP
Vytautas wrote:There are two kinds of people in this world:
* people giving a fuck,
* people not giving a fuck,
Drink Vytautas, give a NEGATIVE FUCK!
The Burning Sun wrote:...you seem to experience what I shall completely non-offensively dub the Triplex, or TriStates Complex - you spend a ton of time crafting a beautiful work of collaboration, and then you mysteriously disappear...

The Starlight wrote:
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It's coarse and dry and gets everywhere. :p

But I do get what you mean.
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Shadowwell
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Hopefully finished APP

Postby Shadowwell » Fri May 26, 2017 10:16 pm

Character Application
Mandatory
Name: Mallu “Mal” Lazzeth
Sex: Male

Race & Faction: Anzati, Independent, but working as an assassin for the CIS

Appearance: This, but clothes may vary

Universe of Origin: Star Wars

Biography: He is ancient, no not ancient, for that does signify just how old he really is. By his own peoples standards he would be Venerable, but that is not a specific measurement. He has lived for millennium at the very least, and not just a handful. The number of millennia that have passed him by number in the double digits easily, he stopped counting long ago. He does not measure his age in years as most beings do, or even in centuries, but in millennia. Even among his own kind, the Anzati, there are few if any that are as ancient as he.

Back when he was merely old he started training and strengthening his connection to what the younger races call the Force. Unlike many of his kind he had stayed on Anzat and trained for much of his life, instead of wandering, this was until a pair of force users crashed onto the planet. One was a Jedi, the other a Sith, they had been fighting in space. The fight had continued on land and they were both injured gravely when he came upon them. Mallu, Drank of their soup, and through it gained much enlightenment. He learned much and gained an even stronger connection to the Force, both sides of it.

It was at that point he decided to leave Anzat, and has rarely been back since. over the many years he has honed hid body into a rather dangerous tool, the power of the Force merely sharpens the blade more, so to speak. He has made a habit of collecting things from the eras before him and that he has lived through. This is not the result of mere curiosity however, each of the artifacts from bygone eras is put to use in his dangerous hands. They range from Forcesabers to Echani and Mandalorian Shields, gained from jobs in ages past.

Recently, he has been working for the CIS, not the Sith who truly rule them, but the Confederation itself. They consider him a secret weapon of sorts, and do not use him lightly, anymore. His actions have drawn the attention of the most recent Dark Lord of the Sith, and while such a thing is not necessarily bad, as Sith Lords have good Soup, he had other plans. He has sampled the soup of nearly every being in the Galaxy, and this journey has given him a chance to expand his palette. Normally he would have drank the soup of the foolish Neimoidians who attempted to press him into this task, but he allowed himself to be sent on this, as new Soup is a tantalizing thing.
Powers/Abilities: He is naturally Telepathic and is quite strong in that aspect, but those who use the Force, or are possessing of an extremely strong will or other unique abilities can resist it. He can use all manner of Telepathic abilities, and related force abilities are strengthened by his natural Telepathy. He can make others think he looks like someone else, but the strong willed can see his true appearance, though those with not strong enough wills will only see his body but a blurred face and this does not fool technology. He has high regenerative capabilities and can easily fool heat sensing technology as he has no pulse or biorhythm and thus no body heat.

Though his connection to the force is strong he is not a master in every aspect and while he can use many powers reasonably well he has only mastered a chosen few and has studied the others to better combat them. In general his use of the Force is like a hammer, powerful but lacking finesse. He can use many force Powers under the Control aspect with great skill, but has not mastered them. Several of the Force abilities under the Aspect of Sense, come easy to him due to his natural Telepathy and his strength in that aspect. He is relatively unskilled in the abilities under the Alter aspect, but can still use them, they are just untrained. The only abilities he has truly mastered are the defensive ones, he knows that though he is strong he is not invincible, he has gotten close to death, but these abilities and his natural regeneration have ensured he has kept living.

Equipment: He holds not just a lightsaber, but several of different colors from those used by the Jedi to sith colors as well, additionally he possesses a ForceSaber as well, having acquired it through a job.

Optional!

Likes: Soup, power, History, Training

Dislikes: False History, the Weak, Sith and Jedi

Theme Song: Assassins by Anarchy Club

Tropes:
Last edited by Shadowwell on Sat May 27, 2017 1:57 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Brusia
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Postby Brusia » Fri May 26, 2017 10:21 pm

Athrax wrote:
Brusia wrote:I mean, Tusken Raiders used slugthrowers and I don't remember Anakin having much trouble with them.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Slugthrower

Last paragraph

"...when a slug made contact with a blade, it simply melted instead of being deflected like a blaster bolt." Doesn't sound like it shot flaming hot molten lead at the Jedi wielding the lightsaber though (otherwise I imagine pretty much everyone with a bone to pick with the Jedi would've used slugthrowers). Plus it doesn't say what the slugs in question are made out of, and slugs in the Star Wars universe might be made out of a more advanced material with a higher boiling point than lead.

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Shadowwell
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Postby Shadowwell » Fri May 26, 2017 10:47 pm

I wonder, if an Anzat drank the "Soup" of a Biotic, would they begin to show such abilities?

I just thought of this, as when an Anzati drinks the 'Soup' of a being, they gain their memories and whatnot, but also a stronger connection to the force, which varies from soup to soup, would the same apply to similar things of other universes?
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Athrax
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Postby Athrax » Fri May 26, 2017 10:52 pm

Shadowwell wrote:I wonder, if an Anzat drank the "Soup" of a Biotic, would they begin to show such abilities?

I just thought of this, as when an Anzati drinks the 'Soup' of a being, they gain their memories and whatnot, but also a stronger connection to the force, which varies from soup to soup, would the same apply to similar things of other universes?


I wouldn't imagine so. Biotics require nodules of eezo throughout the body, as well as the implants to make them work, along with training in the biomnemonics to make the biotics actually work.

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Shadowwell
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Postby Shadowwell » Fri May 26, 2017 10:56 pm

Athrax wrote:
Shadowwell wrote:I wonder, if an Anzat drank the "Soup" of a Biotic, would they begin to show such abilities?

I just thought of this, as when an Anzati drinks the 'Soup' of a being, they gain their memories and whatnot, but also a stronger connection to the force, which varies from soup to soup, would the same apply to similar things of other universes?


I wouldn't imagine so. Biotics require nodules of eezo throughout the body, as well as the implants to make them work, along with training in the biomnemonics to make the biotics actually work.

That would probably be the case, but what if they drank teh soup of an Asari, who are naturally Biotic?

If sucha thing could happen, who knows how much soup they would have to drink or the like in order to even begin to make it work. Then again who is to even say, taht the beings of other universe have Soup?

I am not saying this because i want this to happen to my proposed character above, but because i am truly curious about the matter.
Last edited by Shadowwell on Fri May 26, 2017 11:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Templar High Council
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Postby The Templar High Council » Fri May 26, 2017 10:58 pm

Brusia wrote:
Nuxipal wrote:Blanking on which Habitat the Asari are supposed to aim for. I think its Habitat 6 (Voeld), but I'm not certain.

Was wondering that myself. I checked on the wiki, but I couldn't find it there.

Asari were meant for Voeld.

I just completed that planet. ;)
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Valkiir
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Postby Valkiir » Sat May 27, 2017 12:33 am

Ism wrote:
Athrax wrote:
Well now I'm obligated to at one point scatter a group of Grunts in terror by blocking a couple of plasma pistol shots :lol:


Keep your hands off muh grunts.

Brusia wrote:I figure that lead slugs would simply undergo sublimation on coming into contact with a plasma blade, given that lead boils at around 3000 degrees Celsius and cold plasma burns at several thousand degrees.


I guess the question then is how dangerous that would be. I mean, breathing in gaseous lead, even for a Jedi or Sith, seems like a bad idea.


only Spartans and Brutes are allowed to terrorize Grunts....And I kind of like the little guys.

On the subject of guns versus force in general.....

Oh one bullet turned to near plasma state by a light saber would hurt a bit if it hit bare skin....but since an SMG as a rate of fire around 600 rounds per minute the nine or ten other projectiles traveling on slightly different trajectories will be an issue.

And say it was a blast of buckshot from a shotgun, a shotgun fires 20-30 9mm projectiles with each trigger pull they arrive almost simultaneously in a pattern ranging from the size of your hand to the size of your chest....

ALL bullets move faster than you can see so using TK is problematic. You can predict the approximate path of a bullet by drawing a line between the muzzle and the target but that brings bullet drop, the effects of air resistance, recoil, the shooters hand shaking etc...

I have about a page or two more on the subject..but long story short....Low rate of fire slow moving blaster bolts are simple to intercept compared to a 'primitive' slug thrower. Might be why Biotics use barriers which are largely an area of effect ability.

But each group has its advantages, guns won't trump Force powers since the Force user can go after the shooter, not the weapon, force powers won't trump guns because the Force user still has human limitations...and users of both should be really polite to biotics since neither are going to fare well against a pin-point singularity, or directed shockwave.

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Shadowwell
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Postby Shadowwell » Sat May 27, 2017 12:40 am

Force speed trumps bullets, maybe.
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Brusia
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Postby Brusia » Sat May 27, 2017 1:02 am

Shadowwell wrote:Force speed trumps bullets, maybe.

Plus you have abilities like Precognition/Battle Precognition which warn Jedi of impending doom and further improves their reaction time in combat.

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Valkiir
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Postby Valkiir » Sat May 27, 2017 1:33 am

Brusia wrote:
Shadowwell wrote:Force speed trumps bullets, maybe.

Plus you have abilities like Precognition/Battle Precognition which warn Jedi of impending doom and further improves their reaction time in combat.


It all depends on the guy behind the gun and the guy swinging the lightsaber... When you talk Jedi, Sith, Spartans, Grunts, Vanguards, whatever its Skill, experience, training, and imagination mixed with a dash of treachery that win fights. :D

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Vanquaria
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Postby Vanquaria » Sat May 27, 2017 1:42 am

tag
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Zepplien
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Postby Zepplien » Sat May 27, 2017 3:53 am

Character Application
Mandatory
Name: Paz Nevin
Sex: Female

Race & Faction: Umbaran, Retail Caucus, Confederacy of Independent Systems

Appearance: Paz is a tall Umbaran, with a height of 1.9 meters, though she shares the grey eyes of many of her fellow Umbarans. Her sliver hair is cut short in a fairly typical human cut, as such to better fit in with her human compatriots, and has nothing to do with her young age.

Universe of Origin: Star Wars

Biography: Paz Nevin was born on Coruscant, both of her parents in the seventh caste of Umbarian Society, and thus being raised as a rather spoiled child. Whatever she desired she had in her hands by the end of the day, but even with such greed she still learned the arts of the Umbaran people growing up. She was no engineer, nor a soldier or scientist, but instead she found herself to have a gift of number and mathematics to rival the droids that served as her bodyguards. Always ahead of people her age in mathematics it was natural she followed her father into the business world, being taught the (Literally) cutthroat politics of the Retail Caucus. Her mother first admitted to pride in her daughter when the Muun above her 'accidentally' fell off his balcony and she inherited the position of General Manager of Marketing for the Undercity. To say she reveled in her position was an understatement, and she used it as a springboard to extend feelers into every aspect of the Caucus, prepare herself for further advancement.

Though the galaxy seemed to have other plans, and she was called away by the Caucus to be offered another position. She was no general, no admiral, but her loyalty was assured, and thus she was offered the command of a ship and large contingent of droids. She supplemented her forces with further organic forces, advanced droids, and upgrades to her Diamond class flagship the Insatiable Greed. Unlike others in the CIS she did not simply attempt to hammer a point with B1 droids until the enemy ran out of ammo, instead counting on a variety of tactics, especially capturing enemy soldiers and interrogating them personally then launching a full surprise attack at the weakest point. While she obeys orders with loyalty and pride in the Caucus, she also holds respect for life, property, and general rules of warfare, doing her best to insure that those under her forces are treated well and their lives disrupted as little as possible. If this is the idealistic Umbarian being kind hearted, or simply a point to avoid popular uprising is unknown by those around her, leaving the Republic to be unsure how to deal with her when/if captured.

When Head of State Dooku contacted her about a prestigious mission that would yield her great rewards within not just the CIS but also the Retail Caucus, she could not bow and offer her services fast enough. Though, a part of her mind wondered if her offer of such a thing was payment for forgetting things her telepathy had gleamed from him when she had to meet with the Confederate Senate. Regardless of the reasoning she took the chance, and only later realized it was to throw her aside, not to grant her prestige.

Powers/Abilities: She has the ability to read the, interpret the feelings of, and even plant suggestion in the minds of those around her, and see beyond the human spectrum if vision. Beyond this Umbaran power she counts on droids to do heavy lifting in combat as she knows nothing of the force.

Optional!

Likes: Umbaran Fashion, Human High Culture, Her enemies suffering 'accidents', The Retail Caucus

Dislikes: Human Morality, Republican Legal Systems, the Sith and Jedi

Theme Song:

Tropes: Yes Umbaran


Character Application
Mandatory
Name: Sarah Gustav'ee
Sex: Female

Race & Faction: Human, Covenant Remnant

Appearance: Sarah is tall for a human, standing at 1.85 meters, and is of mixed race ancestry with her slightly darkened features, dark hair, and dark eyes. She has only enough hair to cover the top of her head, any further seen as decadence and thus heresy.

Universe of Origin: Halo

Biography: Sarah was born not on any world, or moon, but instead on a UNSC Prowler that had been 'commandeered' by human insurgents against the UNSC in the asteroid field of a distant gas world far beyond where the Covenant has pushed humanity back through. She grew up not just among Humans but also the Kig Yar who traded with them to mutual benefit. It was from the Kig Yar that she learned not just of the Covenant tongues, but also of the Great Journey, Forerunners, and Prophets. Beyond her (Very secretive) veneration of the Forerunners, she had a fairly normal childhood aboard the asteroid complex. It wasn't until she was 13 that her life would change beyond the typical days of any insurgent child.

The Covenant was not merciful, not even to the Kig Yar who tried to explain their reasoning for violating so many writs, when they found the complex. The insurgents who could fled to the prowler that was the entire reason the Covenant even decided to board the complex rather than destroy it outright. Despite the rather stiff resistance put up by the Insurgents they were no match for the kill teams of the Covenant Empire. In the fighting young Sarah hid in her mother's study, clutching a holy relic of the Forerunners to her chest as the battle raged outside the doors. It was when all was quiet that she emerged, looking for a way off the station, but instead she found herself face to face with a San'Shyuum of noble rank. His honor guard nearly took the teen's head off before she had managed the famous words of scripture 'The Path is wide and we shall walk it side by side'. The fact that this human could quote scripture, in the tongue of the San'Shyuum no less, was remarkable to say the least. It was when she fell to her knees, and presented the relic of the Forerunners to the San'shyuum that the Covenant Officers truly realized she was not of the same breed as her counterparts. It was to her nearly mythical luck that the San'shyuum was a high ranking member of the Ministry of Conversion, perhaps the only one who could grant her pardon for her crime of being human.

Kept within the fleet of the Minister of Conversion, Sarah was taken under the wing of a Shipmaster who taught her of honor, combat, and swordsmanship, while the Minister himself saw to her religious schooling. She was his test, to see if humans could truly be as equals with them on the Great Journey. It was when humanity's homeworld was discovered that the Minister began plans to return to the Holy City of High Charity and present her to the High Prophets of Truth, Mercy, and Regret as a model for how humans need not be wiped out, only converted. It was only with the blessings of the Forerunners that the 15 year old avoided being cut down by Truth's guards for by the time their ship the Righteous Hierophant docked to High Charity all had gone to hell. The shipmaster, and the honor guards of the Minister of Conversion cut through so many servants of the parasite that even the most honor obsessed lost count. Sarah used her carbine in combat for the first time on that day, her quick eye inherited from her father who had served as an insurgent sharpshooter. One combat form managed to get past the guards, and the human convert made a split second choice to grab the hilt of an honor guard's plasma sword and use it to cut down the combat form. The Holy City was a lost cause, and with such a close call on the Minister's life they fled back to the Righteous Hierophant to lick their wounds and assess the situation.

The Righteous Hierophant jumped to slip space almost as soon as it broke dock with High Charity. Once safe the honor guardsman who had his sword taken did the only honorable thing, and spoke with the Shipmaster. In his terms he was unworthy of the blade, as if the human could protect the Minister he should have in her place. He fell upon his sword with only the request that 'she with more honor than I' take the sword. She was promoted to Ultra in the Covenant Army, minimum rank needed to wield a sword, and given armour befitting her status. Though it was supposed to be a time of joy for her, she joined the rest of the crew, from the lowest Unggoy to the Shipmaster himself in grief over the loss of the Holy City. Any who would say they had a purpose after that would be either a liar of a fool, instead they became part of the weak remnant of the Covenant.

With orders from the aging Minister himself, Sarah Gustav'ee was reassigned to the Remnant fleet along with her chosen squad of Sangheili, prepared for boarding or ground action against her species kin who refused to embrace the true way of things.

Powers/Abilities: While she may not have augmentations she does have shielding/armour that befits her station and carries both an energy sword and a Type 51 Carbine. While not a perfect fit, she does wear armour that was originally made for a Sangheili Ultra.

Optional!

Likes: Worship and Relevance of the Gods (Forerunners), Swordsmanship, Honor, Glory

Dislikes: Heresy, most humans, UNSC (With a passion)

Theme Song:

Tropes:
Last edited by Zepplien on Sat May 27, 2017 3:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Never mistake my IC nation for communism. think of it as Zepism, something unique and terrifying
Ode to Zepplin:

You Play as a Bisexual think tank, in a woemans body so gracefully... But as quickly as you came you are gone playing a Chineese Clone... Then you are a stupid, homocidal iddiot who will kill 1000 people for his own power... You are my hero.

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Nuxipal
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9250
Founded: Apr 25, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Nuxipal » Sat May 27, 2017 5:44 am

Ism wrote:
Athrax wrote:
This has me about 2 seconds from redownloading the Master Chief collection just to murder more grunts

:lol:

Here are more!
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Shadowwell
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15167
Founded: Jan 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Shadowwell » Sat May 27, 2017 8:41 am

Theoretically, would it be possible, in the SW universe for a telepathic being to makke/influence others to see a different face or blur his features when they look at him/see him?
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When i am not being your average Drunk at the Pub, i am the Founder and Headmaster of The Academy. On my off time i am also a Member of the Mechanics Guild. Member of The Council of the Multiverse community. Click me to find out more!

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The Republic of Atria
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24511
Founded: Nov 12, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Republic of Atria » Sat May 27, 2017 8:43 am

Shadowwell wrote:Theoretically, would it be possible, in the SW universe for a telepathic being to makke/influence others to see a different face or blur his features when they look at him/see him?


Which would work fine on any not AI assisted human, robot, camera, or anything.

Short version is that it'd probably be more trouble than it's worth.

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Shadowwell
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15167
Founded: Jan 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Shadowwell » Sat May 27, 2017 8:57 am

The Republic of Atria wrote:
Shadowwell wrote:Theoretically, would it be possible, in the SW universe for a telepathic being to makke/influence others to see a different face or blur his features when they look at him/see him?


Which would work fine on any not AI assisted human, robot, camera, or anything.

Short version is that it'd probably be more trouble than it's worth.

True, but i was asking in relation to my 3rd proposed charadter, being an assassin, it could be useful for infiltration.

Do any of the factions have tech that detects/senses heat?
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When i am not being your average Drunk at the Pub, i am the Founder and Headmaster of The Academy. On my off time i am also a Member of the Mechanics Guild. Member of The Council of the Multiverse community. Click me to find out more!

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