[UK] General Election 2017 Superthread

[Souseiseki]

the indian Independence movement was marked by mutinies. ghandi preferred non-violent resistance, but had no real problem with those who couldn't handle being beaten without fighting back resisting violently.

after they were arrested for protesting and generally ignored sufragettes eventually planted bombs, smashed windows and set buildings on fire.

the american civil rights movement was filled with groups arming themselves in self-defence. part of the reason it succeeded was non-violent resistance, but also the fear of what would come if non-violent methods were repeatedly rebuked.

as already covered, the ANC murdered civilians repeatedly.

the idea that any group gained their rights by sitting down and playing nice until the powers at be decided to stop oppressing them out of the goodness of their hearts is a myth, one that is not uncoincidentally most often propagated by state powers.

So you support terrorism and think it is justifiable?

do you?

i don't think it's unreasonable to say there are times when violent resistance can be justified. i'm sure you can think of some examples, even if you need to go to the extreme ones. those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. (edit: holy shit that's a jfk quote ahahaha i thought it was mlk or something)

[The Wolfiad]

So you support terrorism and think it is justifiable?

do you?

i don't think it's unreasonable to say there are times when violent resistance can be justified. i'm sure you can think of some examples, even if you need to go to the extreme ones.

Difference is the Republicans were able to work within the system. They had a sympathetic Labour Party in the UK who maintained a policy of unity by consent for decades, even the Tories in the 70s were pragmatic enough to seek a more conciliatory approach with the Sunningdale Agreement. IRA members refused to do this. The ANC didn't really have this choice, nor did the suffragettes - after all, the system excluded them from letting their voice be heard through the ballot. Violent resistance can be justified even though it should be avoided, but the IRA didn't fit this criteria of being justifiable because they rejected a course of action that was available to them.

[Ifreann]

Well I haven't tested whether I'm immune to bombings.

Cool, be a star and carry on not providing any meaningful contribution to this thread on any issue, we all appreciate it. It's not like your snark is a tired cliche or anything, it's still funny, promises .

Okay?

[The Wolfiad]

Anyway, I now get Lib Dem ads about that fucking Jeremy Corbyn interview because I've typed and searched up IRA so many times today (and I guess they've figured out I'm not a Tory either) so I'm going to stop discussing this.

[Chestaan]

Poll shows Labour with 10 point lead in Wales

[The Wolfiad]

Poll shows Labour with 10 point lead in Wales

Wales' top polytechnic has a neat analysis of this - http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinw ... er-poll-5/

[Irona]

Poll shows Labour with 10 point lead in Wales

That's an enormous swing I'm not going to get my hopes up to much but I don't think the Torys will really be able to take labours place in Wales or Scotland

[The Wolfiad]

Poll shows Labour with 10 point lead in Wales

That's an enormous swing I'm not going to get my hopes up to much but I don't think the Torys will really be able to take labours place in Wales or Scotland

Under this poll we easily gain Gower and Vale of Clwyd comes into contention. I hope it holds up.

[Olivaero]

It occurs to me that Theresa May might of made a similar mistake that the remain campaign made, Which would be making it about stability not change. Now is it serious enough to squander her massive lead completely? Probably not. But it's clearly hurting her otherwise huge lead. If she had some kind of moderate ideology to go with her moderate appearance (only appearance mind) I don't think the tories would be losing momentum as much as they are.

In the end it's probably not enough to sway middle class sensibilities. But I think it's clear that the negative image that Corbyn started this campaign with is washing off as I had imagined it would of closer to when the election had been scheduled for, in 2020. Still, he needs a lot of movement yet, and is very short on time. It's nice to entertain the notion that the defeat wont be as serious as I previously thought though.

[Irona]

That's an enormous swing I'm not going to get my hopes up to much but I don't think the Torys will really be able to take labours place in Wales or Scotland

Under this poll we easily gain Gower and Vale of Clwyd comes into contention. I hope it holds up.

The thing is even if (obviously a massive if) we do 'win' the election we still won't be able to form a government without the SNP. If we want to be in government we need to take back Scotland and I don't think any of the leading labour members have a plan for that.

[The Wolfiad]

Under this poll we easily gain Gower and Vale of Clwyd comes into contention. I hope it holds up.

The thing is even if (obviously a massive if) we do 'win' the election we still won't be able to form a government without the SNP. If we want to be in government we need to take back Scotland and I don't think any of the leading labour members have a plan for that.

I try not to think about that part if I'm honest. There are no good options here.

[Lmao Free Stuff Man]

labour should win because fuck white people lol i want tyrone the refugee to destroy my neighborhood because slavery is bad ok praise muhammad

[The Huskar Social Union]

labour should win because fuck white people lol i want tyrone the refugee to destroy my neighborhood because slavery is bad ok praise muhammad

Hmmm.

[The Wolfiad]

labour should win because fuck white people lol i want tyrone the refugee to destroy my neighborhood because slavery is bad ok praise muhammad

Hmmm.

Na don't give him the satisfaction of a response of sorts, just ignore him.

[Lmao Free Stuff Man]

Hmmm.

Na don't give him the satisfaction of a response of sorts, just ignore him.

At least I'm not a fascist.

[Souseiseki]

labour should win because fuck white people lol i want tyrone the refugee to destroy my neighborhood because slavery is bad ok praise muhammad

the UK has only taken a very small amount of refugees and the kind of stories you hear from other countries haven't happened here

but of course, you already knew that

edit: doing this because nobody seems to have any idea how many refugees the UK has taken

[Lmao Free Stuff Man]

labour should win because fuck white people lol i want tyrone the refugee to destroy my neighborhood because slavery is bad ok praise muhammad

the UK has only taken a very small amount of refugees and the kind of stories you hear from other countries haven't happened here

but of course, you already knew that

edit: doing this because nobody seems to have any idea how many refugees the UK has taken

that's why we need MORE!

[The Wolfiad]

labour should win because fuck white people lol i want tyrone the refugee to destroy my neighborhood because slavery is bad ok praise muhammad

the UK has only taken a very small amount of refugees and the kind of stories you hear from other countries haven't happened here

but of course, you already knew that

edit: doing this because nobody seems to have any idea how many refugees the UK has taken

Do you actually think this person is legit? Or do you do a big fry-up when a troll comes to town?

[Lmao Free Stuff Man]

the UK has only taken a very small amount of refugees and the kind of stories you hear from other countries haven't happened here

but of course, you already knew that

edit: doing this because nobody seems to have any idea how many refugees the UK has taken

Do you actually think this person is legit? Or do you do a big fry-up when a troll comes to town?

>everyone i dont like is a troll
typical childish nazi

[Chestaan]

It occurs to me that Theresa May might of made a similar mistake that the remain campaign made, Which would be making it about stability not change. Now is it serious enough to squander her massive lead completely? Probably not. But it's clearly hurting her otherwise huge lead. If she had some kind of moderate ideology to go with her moderate appearance (only appearance mind) I don't think the tories would be losing momentum as much as they are.

In the end it's probably not enough to sway middle class sensibilities. But I think it's clear that the negative image that Corbyn started this campaign with is washing off as I had imagined it would of closer to when the election had been scheduled for, in 2020. Still, he needs a lot of movement yet, and is very short on time. It's nice to entertain the notion that the defeat wont be as serious as I previously thought though.

Its the same mistake that parties all across the western world are making. The Democrats made the same mistake by putting forward Clinton, a candidate who was the very definition of establishment when people were crying out for change. We have seen centrist parties share of the vote plummeting everywhere, and people flocking to left-wingers like Sanders and Corbyn and, regrettably, also to the far-right.

The Labour party may be tactically well placed to take advantage of some of this anti-establishment anger.

[The Wolfiad]

It occurs to me that Theresa May might of made a similar mistake that the remain campaign made, Which would be making it about stability not change. Now is it serious enough to squander her massive lead completely? Probably not. But it's clearly hurting her otherwise huge lead. If she had some kind of moderate ideology to go with her moderate appearance (only appearance mind) I don't think the tories would be losing momentum as much as they are.

In the end it's probably not enough to sway middle class sensibilities. But I think it's clear that the negative image that Corbyn started this campaign with is washing off as I had imagined it would of closer to when the election had been scheduled for, in 2020. Still, he needs a lot of movement yet, and is very short on time. It's nice to entertain the notion that the defeat wont be as serious as I previously thought though.

Its the same mistake that parties all across the western world are making. The Democrats made the same mistake by putting forward Clinton, a candidate who was the very definition of establishment when people were crying out for change. We have seen centrist parties share of the vote plummeting everywhere, and people flocking to left-wingers like Sanders and Corbyn and, regrettably, also to the far-right.

The Labour party may be tactically well placed to take advantage of some of this anti-establishment anger.

I've been on the doorstep. People are willing to vote Labour because they know we won't win. The Miliband coalition coming back together doesn't signal Corbyn is great. He's winning over his doubters that voted Miliband, not new supporters. New supporters are basically Greens, the few UKIP voters that have gone back to us and not the Tories and a few Lib Dems.

[The Wolfiad]

Google Ads now thinks I'm a massive immigration hater because I keep gettings ads from the Tories and UKIP about dem immigrantz.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Google Ads now thinks I'm a massive immigration hater because I keep gettings ads from the Tories and UKIP about dem immigrantz.

haha

[The Wolfiad]

Google Ads now thinks I'm a massive immigration hater because I keep gettings ads from the Tories and UKIP about dem immigrantz.

haha

I think internet lefties have missed a trick by not making an anti-Tory AdBlock.

[Geilinor]

It occurs to me that Theresa May might of made a similar mistake that the remain campaign made, Which would be making it about stability not change. Now is it serious enough to squander her massive lead completely? Probably not. But it's clearly hurting her otherwise huge lead. If she had some kind of moderate ideology to go with her moderate appearance (only appearance mind) I don't think the tories would be losing momentum as much as they are.

In the end it's probably not enough to sway middle class sensibilities. But I think it's clear that the negative image that Corbyn started this campaign with is washing off as I had imagined it would of closer to when the election had been scheduled for, in 2020. Still, he needs a lot of movement yet, and is very short on time. It's nice to entertain the notion that the defeat wont be as serious as I previously thought though.

Its the same mistake that parties all across the western world are making. The Democrats made the same mistake by putting forward Clinton, a candidate who was the very definition of establishment when people were crying out for change. We have seen centrist parties share of the vote plummeting everywhere, and people flocking to left-wingers like Sanders and Corbyn and, regrettably, also to the far-right.

The Labour party may be tactically well placed to take advantage of some of this anti-establishment anger.

That would be an assumption rather than a fact. Many centrist parties are still managing success.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_presidential_election,_2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_66
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_of_Korea