[Accepted]#777: Betting On The Future

[Drasnia]

This is my second attempt at a 777 issue. The pachinko one was just not doing it for me. Instead, I wanted one that makes gambling seem like a good thing and not evil like in every other issue about it ever.

Edward Rump: Representing our favorite billionaire, I used him because of his failed casinos in Atlantic City. The reason in the issue is different than real life, however.
Steve Lou and Lou's Resorts: Stand in for Steve Wynn. Get it – Lou's = Lose. Does anybody remember Paul Blart Mall Blart 2? That was basically just an advertisement for Wynn Resorts.
'Portly' Pete Russo: Modeled after famous mobster Anthony "Fat Tony" Salerno who also ran a numbers game (pick three numbers that would be drawn the next day)
Village of Dreams: Reference to the casino City of Dreams Resort in Macau

[title] Betting on the Future

[desc] During a family dinner at your mother's house, your brother who is well-known for his fondness for slot machines bemoaned the fact that his favorite casino was going out of business. The next day, you found out that he had secretly arranged to have several major casino owners meet you in your office.

[validity] Gambling is legal (perhaps only for capitalist nations?)

[option]Edward Rump, owner of the failing casino, shakes your hand. "Thanks for meeting me. It means a lot. Frankly, the problem for honest businessmen like me is the terrible zoning and property laws in our nation today. Gambling is a yuge part of our economy but if we aren't allowed to operate where there are actually customers who want to play, we're going to continue to go out of business. And trust me, that's not going to make @@NAME@@ great."
[effect]no cul-de-sac or trailer park is complete without a gambling parlor

[option]"Zoning laws aren't the problem," Lou's Resorts owner Steve Lou counters. "My research suggests that the problem lies with the youth. There has been a very clear decline in patronage among the younger demographics – namely teenagers and 18-35 year-olds. My analysts have hypothesized that we don't seem "hip" or "cool" anymore. All we need is some government funding so we can advertise and rebrand ourselves to draw them in. It's a win-win."
[effect]schoolchildren spend their lunch money trying to get cherries on slot machines

[option]"No, you've got it all backwards," says 'Portly' Pete Russo, boardmember of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Gambling Commission, while lighting a cigar. "What's killin' us are those taxes of yours. They're highway robbery! Give us a tax break and I bet we'd be able to increase our operations and bring in even bigger hauls that'd more'n make up the difference. We're the lifeblood of the economy after all and you wouldn't want to be the one responsibility for bumpin' off an industry that nets ya so much dough. now would ya."
[effect]casino tax breaks are an even bigger than their jackpots

[option]Your brother who has been eavesdropping through the keyhole, interrupts the group. "How about instead we use tax money to purchase credit for casinos and then distribute that credit to every taxpayer? That way there's an incentive for people to try these really entertaining games – plus they just might hit the jackpot which they'd never have done if they hadn't played in the first place. Oh and totally unrelated, but could you lend me some money again? I want to check out that new blackjack dealer at the Village of Dreams Resort. Word on the street is she's one fine-looking woman."
[effect]tax returns detail how many games of slots each citizen will be able to play with their refund

[Australian rePublic]

Are you going for 777?

Anyway, option 2, who said that those youngernthan 18 are allowed to gamble?

[Tinhampton]

Are you going for 777?

This is my second attempt at a 777 issue.

---

Anyway, option 2, who said that those youngernthan 18 are allowed to gamble?

Whilst I cannot speak for Dras, to my understanding, the issue "Child Casino Shock" gives you two choices: Allow all to gamble, or ban gambling. Add that to the fact that resolutions setting age limits for gambling are illegal in the GA, and... well, you get this. Alternatively, Steve Lou is only described as the operator of a resorts chain, not a casino chain. I'll leave it to Dras to provide a better answer than I can possibly muster.

[Drasnia]

Are you going for 777?

This is my second attempt at a 777 issue.

---

Anyway, option 2, who said that those youngernthan 18 are allowed to gamble?

Whilst I cannot speak for Dras, to my understanding, the issue "Child Casino Shock" gives you two choices: Allow all to gamble, or ban gambling. Add that to the fact that resolutions setting age limits for gambling are illegal in the GA, and... well, you get this. Alternatively, Steve Lou is only described as the operator of a resorts chain, not a casino chain. I'll leave it to Dras to provide a better answer than I can possibly muster.

Aye, to my knowledge there is no flag for banning children gambling but allowing adults. I'm not against striking that little aside though if there's reason for it like if people think it'd help the flow.

Wynn (who Lou is based off of) operates resorts and casinos and in the context of this issue I thought it fairly obvious that "Lou's Resorts" would have casinos included inside.

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

This is my second attempt at a 777 issue. The pachinko one was just not doing it for me. Instead, I wanted one that makes gambling seem like a good thing and not evil like in every other issue about it ever.

*snip*

I like the idea in theory. While gambling has a bad rep societally, I don't think it necessarily has to be Don't Touch It, It's Pure EVIL^TM the way it's presented a lot of the time.

I've seen two ways of attempting to present it as a public good in the dreaded Real World in my lifetime. There may be more, but I probably slept through the others.

1) When we passed the state lottery, The Lotto, in Texas, it was presented as being an alternative to a State income tax and hike in property taxes, with all of the funds (minus overhead) going to public schooling. (Theory more than in practice, but that's a factor of politicians being politicians, than the lottery being evil.)

2) The Casino industry in the Amerind Reservations and on Indian lands, such as the Navajo Casinos on the Res, and the Casinos in Cherokee and Choctaw Nation territory in Oklahoma. (Cherokee and Choctaw are not Reservation Indians in Oklahoma.)

The primary objection fielded to the Lotto and other similar State lotteries was the fairly insulting and patronizing "But it's a voluntary tax on the poor and stupid" that nearly all of the opponents used in their arguments. Which blatantly assumes that poor people and working class people aren't smart enough or capable enough of doing a budget and deciding, "You know... it's a really long shot, but I can spare two (or ten or whatever) bucks from my paycheck this Friday to play the Powerball on the chance of winning 300 million bucks."

The pros on Reservation and Tribal gambling are that the Nations are sovereign countries and should be able to decide what to do within their borders, and that it provides (lots of) needed revenue for the Tribal governments and people that they have no other equivalent means of generating.

The cons often presented on Reservation and Tribal gambling are that it leads to the Tribal figures involved in it acting like gangsters and Cosa Nostra, that it's a voluntary tax on the poor and indigenous (which sounds just awfully familiar for some reason), and that it encourages gambling (duh).

---

Once I've woken up a bit more and gotten some more of the blood out of my caffeine stream, I'll read over your draft more carefully and see if there's any way to apply any of those to your issue. I really like the concept you have so far. I'm just not quite awake enough yet to evaluate it intelligibly.

[Trotterdam]

I like the idea in theory. While gambling has a bad rep societally, I don't think it necessarily has to be Don't Touch It, It's Pure EVIL^TM the way it's presented a lot of the time.

The most positive portrayals of gambling I can think of are where it's treated as a form of entertainment, the point being making the game fun enough that it's worth playing even if you lose (and hoping people have the sense not to bet more on one playing session than they would spend on other forms of entertainment).

Of course, the simple way to put to the test whether something has entertainment value distinct from the gambling is to take away the chance of payoff and see if people will still play it.

2) The Casino industry in the Amerind Reservations and on Indian lands, such as the Navajo Casinos on the Res, and the Casinos in Cherokee and Choctaw Nation territory in Oklahoma. (Cherokee and Choctaw are not Reservation Indians in Oklahoma.)

A clear sign of how broken the system is.

We're feeling bad about stealing their land and destroying their way of life, so we give them some of their freedom back, but instead of using that freedom to preserve their ancient traditions (which have already been destroyed and are not viable in the modern world), they use it to scam people in a distinctly Western way. They feel this is necessary because they're so poor that they have to cheat just to scrape by.

It's the illusion of giving them tribal autonomy while actually just drawing them further into Western decadence while encouraging them to distance themselves from integrating with the more positive aspects of Western culture.

[Australian rePublic]

I have to pick on your word "casino owners" as casinos would most likely be owned by shareholders, and I doubt that you would have a million shareholders in your office

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

The most positive portrayals of gambling I can think of are where it's treated as a form of entertainment, the point being making the game fun enough that it's worth playing even if you lose (and hoping people have the sense not to bet more on one playing session than they would spend on other forms of entertainment).

Cool. I'm not sure that I've seen that. Have any specific examples?

(I don't want to derail the Issue draft commentary, but you've got me curious.)

A clear sign of how broken the system is.

We're feeling bad about stealing their land and destroying their way of life, so we give them some of their freedom back, but instead of using that freedom to preserve their ancient traditions (which have already been destroyed and are not viable in the modern world), they use it to scam people in a distinctly Western way. They feel this is necessary because they're so poor that they have to cheat just to scrape by.

It's the illusion of giving them tribal autonomy while actually just drawing them further into Western decadence while encouraging them to distance themselves from integrating with the more positive aspects of Western culture.

Meh. Don't get me started.

Of course, you'd have no way of knowing, but I am an Amerind: enough Cherokee/Choctaw blood to qualify as a fullblood under U.S. law by blood quantum. No verifiable relatives on the Dawes Roll, so while I'm a Cherokee National, I'm not a Nations member under Tribal Law. (It's complex.)

I'll just say that what you're stating is somewhat accurate in parts, but... incomplete. There's a lot of factors involved, not the least of which is that not all of the Nations are the same, and they don't all have the same conditions or terms under treaty.

And the Five Civilized Tribes - Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole - in Oklahoma, at least, aren't Reservation and are not exactly poor on the whole.

Things and conditions change a lot when you start looking at other Nations elsewhere, though, ranging from the relatively affluent Navajo in parts of New Mexico and Arizona, to the fairly destitute and below third world reservation areas of some of the Dakotas tribes.

What you said in your last sentence on "encouraging them to distance themselves from integrating with the more positive aspects of Western culture" is a major key. I hold to your views on that, myself.

But I've given up arguing it on tribal forums. Stating that the Cherokee and Choctaw/Chicasaw ranchers, farmers, and business owners here have managed to integrate a lot of the worthwhile aspects of Western Culture and civilization/technology without losing our traditions, language, and older ways don't seem to make an impact... so it's pointless. And I find being called an "Apple" distasteful.

(For the record, I'm a 'Breed: Czech/Scots-Irish/Indian, not a Fullblood.)

White American Guilt Culture and virtue signalling/activism in this is another aspect of the problem, and equally as damaging in a lot of ways as the BIA and the Treaty/Reservation system.

---

And I've digressed from the Issue draft at hand quite enough, I think. Sorry, Drasnia.

[Drasnia]

Well, any thoughts on the draft itself?

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

Well, any thoughts on the draft itself?

Whut.

Wait, what? There's an Issue draft in here?



Yeah yeah. I did say I was gonna get back to you on that, didn't I? Young whippersnappers today just have no goldurned patience.

[spoiler=The References]Edward Rump: Representing our favorite billionaire, I used him because of his failed casinos in Atlantic City. The reason in the issue is different than real life, however.

I'm not crazy about the Trump reference. I've seen it in too many NS issues drafts in this forum, and in too many issues that have come up for me or one of my puppet nations in the past few months... they're starting to get a bit tiresome.

But.. meh. I can live with it. If I get this issue and I find it irksome in whatever mood I'm in that day, there's always the [Dismissed!] button. Is all good.

I think "Fat Tony" is a cool name. It's too bad there's not a reference to Perfectly Legitimate Business Owner Obese Bobby or something like that in the options.

[effect]no cul-de-sac or trailer park is complete without a gambling parlor

I like the effect line here, even if the "yuge!" joke has me grinding my back teeth. We get it, Drumpf is funny and the Left doesn't like him. Get over it.

No worries. I'll do a Dorkness in Chief Leader golfing his way through a crisis while biking in mom jeans Issue at some point and see how many teeth I can make grind.

I think it should be "no cul-de-sac or trailer park is complete without a gambling parlour"? Rather than with one?

[option]"Zoning laws aren't the problem," Lou's Resorts owner Steve Lou counters.

I really wish it was Obese Bobby or Tubby Pauli or Anorexic Vinnie here now that you've got "Fat Tony" waddling through the back of my mind, chomping on a well chewed stogie.

[effect]schoolchildren spend their lunch money trying to get cherries on slot machines

Good effect line, but it seems to lack that certain... something. Not quite sure what.

It reminds me though that we used to pitch pennies behind the lunchroom when I was a kid, and were always getting in trouble for gambling there. (Catholic school - you'd think we'd turned the Temple into a money lenders pit to hear the Mother Superior/Principal going on about it.)

I'm also minded of skipping school to play pinball for some reason... do kids even still play pinball?

Would: "[effect] beating the high score on a Bally machine now results in mega-payoffs" work? Or whatever current popular arcade game? Hell, do arcades even still exist? Jeeze, I'm ancient.

[option]"No, you've got it all backwards," says 'Portly' Pete Russo, boardmember of the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Gambling Commission, while lighting a cigar.

Aha! Here's Portly Pete and his well chewed cigar stump! Never mind, then.

[effect]tax breaks for casinos are an even bigger scam than their lotteries

The effect line has that certain nothing to it. We can do better, I think.

"[effect]the tax breaks for casinos are even bigger than their mega jackpots" maybe?

[option]Your brother who has been eavesdropping through the keyhole, interrupts the group. "How about instead we use tax money to purchase credit for casinos and then distribute that credit to every taxpayer? That way there's an incentive for people to try these really entertaining games – plus they just might hit the jackpot which they'd never have done if they hadn't played in the first place. Oh and totally unrelated, but could you lend me some money again? I want to check out that new blackjack dealer at the Village of Dreams Resort. Word on the street is she's one fine-looking woman."

I quoted this option in full because I just love it to pieces. This may be the first time ever that one of @@LEADER@@'s useless relatives has something intelligent and useful to say!

We should declare a NationStates Official Holiday in celebration: call it "@@LEADER@@'s Brain Damaged Brother's Day" or something.

Really good option geared toward the anti-taxation nations and players, and towards the Libertarians in the viewing audience. Plus, it's funny - I'm sure we've all got at least one relative like that.

Next best thing to not taking away my money in taxes is giving it back to me.

[effect]tax returns detail how many games of slots each citizen will be able to play with their refund[/box]

Once again, I like the option text, but I really don't care for the effects line... it has that certain bland to it.

*drums fingers on keyboard while thinking... * Hrmmm.

"[effect]@@NATION@@'s tax refunds are paid in casino tokens for Anorexic Stevo's Bar & Grill"

---

Hey, you asked and you shall receive.

It's all your fault that the Rump crack (geddit?) brought out my snark and my inner smart*ss, but I did my best to rein it in.

[Australian rePublic]

They SPECIFICALLY said you can submit BOTH for the contest

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Right, it's just a minicontest, not a find-an-editor contest. We're not going to be too formal about it.

[Australian rePublic]

Right, it's just a minicontest, not a find-an-editor contest. We're not going to be too formal about it.

Yep, I mean, I even have one in the pool, (unless it's been rejected) and am still helping you even though you're competing against me. I mean, if it's good enough to make it, it will make it whether or not it becomes 777. It'd be nice to have it as 777, but as long as it makes it, it wouldn't mattr at the end of the day.

[Drasnia]

They SPECIFICALLY said you can submit BOTH for the contest

I know. I just wasn't enjoying drafting the pachinko one.

[Drasnia]

Well, any thoughts on the draft itself?

Whut.

Wait, what? There's an Issue draft in here?



Yeah yeah. I did say I was gonna get back to you on that, didn't I? Young whippersnappers today just have no goldurned patience.

[spoiler=The References]Edward Rump: Representing our favorite billionaire, I used him because of his failed casinos in Atlantic City. The reason in the issue is different than real life, however.

I'm not crazy about the Trump reference. I've seen it in too many NS issues drafts in this forum, and in too many issues that have come up for me or one of my puppet nations in the past few months... they're starting to get a bit tiresome.

But.. meh. I can live with it. If I get this issue and I find it irksome in whatever mood I'm in that day, there's always the [Dismissed!] button. Is all good.

I think "Fat Tony" is a cool name. It's too bad there's not a reference to Perfectly Legitimate Business Owner Obese Bobby or something like that in the options.

I'm sick of the low effort Trump memes in Got Issues, but Edward Rump is already a character in the issue canon and I thought it made sense. I tried to not be to over the top about it but if others find it too obnoxious I'm willing to take it out.

[effect]no cul-de-sac or trailer park is complete without a gambling parlor

Good catch. Fixed.

[effect]schoolchildren spend their lunch money trying to get cherries on slot machines

Good effect line, but it seems to lack that certain... something. Not quite sure what.

It reminds me though that we used to pitch pennies behind the lunchroom when I was a kid, and were always getting in trouble for gambling there. (Catholic school - you'd think we'd turned the Temple into a money lenders pit to hear the Mother Superior/Principal going on about it.)

I'm also minded of skipping school to play pinball for some reason... do kids even still play pinball?

If you can think of a better alternative, I'm all ears. As most regulars here know by now (and especially the editors!), effect lines are my weak point.

As for pinball, there aren't any physical tables around where I live that I know of but I still boot up an old classic whenever I feel the itch.

Would: "[effect] beating the high score on a Bally machine now results in mega-payoffs" work? Or whatever current popular arcade game? Hell, do arcades even still exist? Jeeze, I'm ancient.

Oh! I almost missed this. Unfortunately, I'm not getting the reference.

[effect]tax breaks for casinos are an even bigger scam than their lotteries

The effect line has that certain nothing to it. We can do better, I think.

"[effect]the tax breaks for casinos are even bigger than their mega jackpots" maybe?

I'm not entirely thrilled about this as it's still lacking panache, but it is more positive than before which is what I wanted to do but couldn't think of anything. Hmm, I'll think of ways to refine it.

[option]Your brother who has been eavesdropping through the keyhole, interrupts the group. "How about instead we use tax money to purchase credit for casinos and then distribute that credit to every taxpayer? That way there's an incentive for people to try these really entertaining games – plus they just might hit the jackpot which they'd never have done if they hadn't played in the first place. Oh and totally unrelated, but could you lend me some money again? I want to check out that new blackjack dealer at the Village of Dreams Resort. Word on the street is she's one fine-looking woman."

I quoted this option in full because I just love it to pieces. This may be the first time ever that one of @@LEADER@@'s useless relatives has something intelligent and useful to say!

We should declare a NationStates Official Holiday in celebration: call it "@@LEADER@@'s Brain Damaged Brother's Day" or something.

Really good option geared toward the anti-taxation nations and players, and towards the Libertarians in the viewing audience. Plus, it's funny - I'm sure we've all got at least one relative like that.

Next best thing to not taking away my money in taxes is giving it back to me.

Thanks for the compliment.

It's all your fault that the Rump crack (geddit?) brought out my snark and my inner smart*ss, but I did my best to rein it in.

Thanks for the feedback

[Egyptian Pharocracy]

Uhh... I'm going to *snip!* a lot because I don't want to take apart that huge quote block and do all of it, okay?

I'm sick of the low effort Trump memes in Got Issues, but Edward Rump is already a character in the issue canon and I thought it made sense. I tried to not be to over the top about it but if others find it too obnoxious I'm willing to take it out.

Don't sweat it. Leave it. As you say: Edward Rump is an established NS character, and you are using him in his "Mega Billionaire Casino Builder" persona, not the "President Rump" persona. So it's all good.

I'm like you though: I get a reflexive eye roll at the low effort Trump jokes and memes, and they make my fangs come out and my ears grow to hairy points by this point.

Leave it as is, it's good.

If you can think of a better alternative, I'm all ears. As most regulars here know by now (and especially the editors!), effect lines are my weak point.

As for pinball, there aren't any physical tables around where I live that I know of but I still boot up an old classic whenever I feel the itch.

Unfortunately, I can't. Darn it.

Would: "[effect] beating the high score on a Bally machine now results in mega-payoffs" work? Or whatever current popular arcade game? Hell, do arcades even still exist? Jeeze, I'm ancient.

Oh! I almost missed this. Unfortunately, I'm not getting the reference.

Ah... Bally was a maker of pinball machines that were very popular, and widespread in arcades - also some of the very best machines for players.

Bally Manufacturing

However, if you don't catch the reference, no one else will either, unless they either grew up on them or are familiar with arcade games from the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

So, leave it. Unfortunately, I'm drawing a blank on a better word/brand name that makes that effect line work and still carries the joke. I'd get it, but I'm both ancient, as I said, and also pretty esoterically knowledgeable in pop culture going back to the 80s and earlier.

If ya have to explain the punchline, it don't work.

"[effect]the tax breaks for casinos are even bigger than their mega jackpots" maybe?

I'm not entirely thrilled about this as it's still lacking panache, but it is more positive than before which is what I wanted to do but couldn't think of anything. Hmm, I'll think of ways to refine it.

By all means.

I'd rather have you make it your own than use it verbaitim just because we can't think of a better one. Although, of you end up needing to, feel free - mi tagline es su tagline.

Thanks for the compliment.

No, thank you. I really enjoyed that option and that effects tagline.

I got a chuckle out of it, which if an option makes me chuckle or grin at my screen, I'll often pick that one just because.

Thanks for the feedback

Hey. Por nada.

[Drasnia]

Second page bump.

[Drasnia]

Last bump if nobody else comments.

EDIT: Forgot to say that I tweaked option 3's effect line.

[Trotterdam]

Instead, I wanted one that makes gambling seem like a good thing and not evil like in every other issue about it ever.

So, well, you don't actually make gambling seem like a good thing.

You assume it is a good thing, and then ask how to boost it, but you don't do a particularly convincing job of explaining why I should.

You offer no options for not supporting gambling, not even "if you can't survive in the free market then that's your problem". All of the options (other than dismissal) have the government intervene to give gambling parlors favorable treatment over and beyond other industries.

[Drasnia]

Instead, I wanted one that makes gambling seem like a good thing and not evil like in every other issue about it ever.

So, well, you don't actually make gambling seem like a good thing.

You assume it is a good thing, and then ask how to boost it, but you don't do a particularly convincing job of explaining why I should.

You offer no options for not supporting gambling, not even "if you can't survive in the free market then that's your problem". All of the options (other than dismissal) have the government intervene to give gambling parlors favorable treatment over and beyond other industries.

Hmm, you do have some of a point. I might do with hammering home how gambling can be entertainment that you pay for just like other forms somehow. But I don't want to treat it like it's always been treated in the issues base where there's always an option to ban this and it's always evil. Instead, I opted to make it seem like just another normal industry where there's no longer a debate over where it should be banned.

I do not want a ban option in this. By now, every player will have made their mind up on whether or not to ban it. If it's still legal, it's likely they want it legal so we shouldn't be treating these players like they're stupid. In essence, it's like we're saying "Are you sure you don't want to ban it? Are you really sure? Hey, do you want to ban it now? No? How about now?"

Not every issue needs a ban. Not every issue about cars asks if we want to ban cars. If the editors want a ban option when they're editing it they are welcome to add one - I understand that I hand over all creative control once I submit whatever I've written. That said, I'm going to be obstinate and refuse to add one in.

EDIT: Due to the time crunch of this mini-contest, I have submitted this issue.

[Drasnia]

This issue has been accepted.

[Australian rePublic]

Congragulations!

Is this 777?

[Drasnia]

Yes

[Australian rePublic]

Sweet!