Feminism and Other Things Like That

[Luminesa]

You can't make such a broad claim about how women are 'treated by society'. Unless you care to provide evidence that society itself is out to treat women like shit.

Then that would require for me to focus on a specific issue rather than the broad scope that the OP was referring to.

So, for example, the fact that maternal labor is unpaid is one example of how women are treated like shit. While stay-at-home dads are increasingly becoming a thing, an overwhelming majority of the parents who spend most of the time caring for their kids are women. This is labor just as much as any other form of employment is, however it's unpaid. Furthermore, this lack of payment requires women to be dependent on a husband to be the breadwinner, which already creates a hierarchy within the nuclear family.

So that's one example in regards to the structure of the nuclear family.

So why aren't you complaining about single-dads being unpaid for their labors?

[Chestaan]

You fail to acknowledge the large feminist movement that already exists in the middle east

And how often is said large feminist movement seen in Western media? It's barely scratched upon, while more 'important' feminist issues such as 'video games causing sexism', 'the wage gap' and 'Emma Watson's tits' are covered liberally.

MUST.RESIST.URGE.TO.MAKE.JOKE

[New haven america]

Then that would require for me to focus on a specific issue rather than the broad scope that the OP was referring to.

So, for example, the fact that maternal labor is unpaid is one example of how women are treated like shit. While stay-at-home dads are increasingly becoming a thing, an overwhelming majority of the parents who spend most of the time caring for their kids are women. This is labor just as much as any other form of employment is, however it's unpaid. Furthermore, this lack of payment requires women to be dependent on a husband to be the breadwinner, which already creates a hierarchy within the nuclear family.

So that's one example in regards to the structure of the nuclear family.

So why aren't you complaining about single-dads being unpaid for their labors?

Because that's not a women's issue.

[Luminesa]

So why aren't you complaining about single-dads being unpaid for their labors?

Because that's not a women's issue.

Well, I was asking her specifically, because she was upset about women not getting paid to be moms, but she didn't seem to care much about dudes being paid to be dads.

[Chestaan]

So why aren't you complaining about single-dads being unpaid for their labors?

Because that's not a women's issue.

Why be divisive? It costs nothing extra to push for men to be paid for their home labour as well.

[Bressen]

And how often is said large feminist movement seen in Western media? It's barely scratched upon, while more 'important' feminist issues such as 'video games causing sexism', 'the wage gap' and 'Emma Watson's tits' are covered liberally.

MUST.RESIST.URGE.TO.MAKE.JOKE

Holy fuck I didn't even notice

[Chessmistress]

Feminism needs to advocate for the rights of women because we're treated like shit in today's society. Yeah, men can help if they want to, but we're not going to define our level of oppression in comparison to men. It's not about fighting for equality, but it's not about fighting to make us superior either. It's about fighting against issues that are specific to us, and it doesn't have any sort of commentary beyond that.

^This^.
This is the best answer, though I would add that Feminism is about fighting for equality to men every time women are disadvantaged (sadly, in most fields of actualt society). I would also add that equality have to be substantive, de facto, and not just only purely theoretical.
Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, nothing else.

[Chestaan]

Feminism needs to advocate for the rights of women because we're treated like shit in today's society. Yeah, men can help if they want to, but we're not going to define our level of oppression in comparison to men. It's not about fighting for equality, but it's not about fighting to make us superior either. It's about fighting against issues that are specific to us, and it doesn't have any sort of commentary beyond that.

^This^.
This is the best answer, though I would add that Feminism is about fighting for equality to men every time women are disadvantaged (sadly, in most fields of actualt society). I would also add that equality have to be substantive, de facto, and not just only purely theoretical.
Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, nothing else.

And it is attitudes like this that have turned people, especially women, against feminism.

[Chessmistress]

^This^.
This is the best answer, though I would add that Feminism is about fighting for equality to men every time women are disadvantaged (sadly, in most fields of actualt society). I would also add that equality have to be substantive, de facto, and not just only purely theoretical.
Feminism is about women's rights and women's empowerment, nothing else.

And it is attitudes like this that have turned people, especially women, against feminism.

I didn't notice it at the global strike last 8 March nor at the great march last 25 November: there were really a lot of women and even many men.
Edit: there have been even Women's March, another great success, against Trump, last January.

[Chestaan]

And it is attitudes like this that have turned people, especially women, against feminism.

I didn't notice it at the global strike last 8 March nor at the great march last 25 November: there were really a lot of women and even many men.
Edit: there have been even Women's March, another great success, against Trump, last January.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/o ... feminists/

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/2 ... feminists/

Yep, a Women's March, not a feminist march.

[Neo Balka]

And it is attitudes like this that have turned people, especially women, against feminism.

I didn't notice it at the global strike last 8 March nor at the great march last 25 November: there were really a lot of women and even many men.
Edit: there have been even Women's March, another great success, against Trump, last January.

[LAUGHS IN MAN]

[Donut section]

I didn't notice it at the global strike last 8 March nor at the great march last 25 November: there were really a lot of women and even many men.
Edit: there have been even Women's March, another great success, against Trump, last January.

[LAUGHS IN MAN]

"A great success"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Neo Balka]

[LAUGHS IN MAN]

"A great success"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'd assume had Clinton been the president, she wouldve made remarks about it on some conference making it a big deal about how she will invite the leaders of the march into the white house.

[Costa Fierro]

Well if you are talking about the West then it is not as needed, but still is needed. Now elsewhere it is more needed than the west.

So women living in Saudi Arabia need feminism less than women in the West despite having no rights whatsoever? And people wonder why western feminism isn't taken seriously anymore.

[Chestaan]

Well if you are talking about the West then it is not as needed, but still is needed. Now elsewhere it is more needed than the west.

So women living in Saudi Arabia need feminism less than women in the West despite having no rights whatsoever? And people wonder why western feminism isn't taken seriously anymore.

I think that they are saying that those not in the west need it more.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well if you are talking about the West then it is not as needed, but still is needed. Now elsewhere it is more needed than the west.

So women living in Saudi Arabia need feminism less than women in the West despite having no rights whatsoever? And people wonder why western feminism isn't taken seriously anymore.

Actually, they said the complete opposite...

[Costa Fierro]

So women living in Saudi Arabia need feminism less than women in the West despite having no rights whatsoever? And people wonder why western feminism isn't taken seriously anymore.

Actually, they said the complete opposite...

Meh. Still said it was needed in the West when it isn't.

[Costa Fierro]

Feminism needs to advocate for the rights of women because we're treated like shit in today's society.

Except women in today's society (in the West at least) are treated better than at any other point in history. Unless you think that mansplaining and manspreading are things worth fighting against.

Yeah, men can help if they want to, but we're not going to define our level of oppression in comparison to men.

That is literally what modern feminism is about. Saying that women are more "oppressed" today than men are and that somehow therefore requires more entitlements and special treatment. Don't pretend that's not what modern feminism is about because it is.

It's not about fighting for equality, but it's not about fighting to make us superior either.

Actually it's about the latter. Modern feminism has done more to make women more advantaged in society than it has fighting for extra rights.

It's about fighting against issues that are specific to us, and it doesn't have any sort of commentary beyond that.

Then there must be some sort of change in definition because the current operating default is that feminism fights for women's rights.

[Corsahnim]

And it is attitudes like this that have turned people, especially women, against feminism.

I didn't notice it at the global strike last 8 March nor at the great march last 25 November: there were really a lot of women and even many men.
Edit: (2) there have been even Women's March, another great success, against Trump, last January.

1. It shouldn't matter whether or not you have a penis or a vagina to be classified as a person. Empowerment comes from being equal, not from one-upping the other gender.

2. Not a lot of people, including myself, liked the idea of a Trump administration, but I didn't like the idea of Hillary's as well. The former was a misogynist, and the latter was a criminal. As to how Trump's election status came into the role of feminist movements is beyond me, but it's not one man that's the cause of all the injustices that's happening in the West or the world - that's society and real life events that don't revolve around one thing or the other.

DISCLAIMER: Neither of these comments were intended to fan the flames of thread war.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It's good, I just don' like the whole "it's not about equality it's about women's rights" crowd. I think it should be about equality.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's hard to say where I stand. I support social equality for women, but I think that some things should be encouraged, specifically, I think we should encourage mothers to stay home with their children by providing a salary for stay-at-home mothers. This way, it would be easier for a family to be supported by just one parent working full time, and the child isn't separated from their parents as often. Of course, there should be a cut-off age.

Also think we need to do more to encourage marriages to stay together.

[Luminesa]

I didn't notice it at the global strike last 8 March nor at the great march last 25 November: there were really a lot of women and even many men.
Edit: (2) there have been even Women's March, another great success, against Trump, last January.

1. It shouldn't matter whether or not you have a penis or a vagina to be classified as a person. Empowerment comes from being equal, not from one-upping the other gender.

2. Not a lot of people, including myself, liked the idea of a Trump administration, but I didn't like the idea of Hillary's as well. The former was a misogynist, and the latter was a criminal. As to how Trump's election status came into the role of feminist movements is beyond me, but it's not one man that's the cause of all the injustices that's happening in the West or the world - that's society and real life events that don't revolve around one thing or the other.

DISCLAIMER: Neither of these comments were intended to fan the flames of thread war.

The rules say you're only flaming if you're posting with the intention of starting a fight. You look fine to me.

[Asarabanda Lavanda]

Actually, they said the complete opposite...

Meh. Still said it was needed in the West when it isn't.

Depends on what you call West. Some people *cough cough fuckyouFujimori cough* have done some really terrible shit - like forced sterilizations.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esteriliz ... #Per.C3.BA (It's in spanish, cause I'm too lazy to google in english)

I must admit, however, that what I provided as in example happened in the '90s, and could also be seen as a form of class (as it targeted the poor) and race discrimination rather than sexual one (as both men an women were sterilized). Still, (some)* feminist movements are of great help in cases like this one; they have a history of defending reproductive rights.

* Read as in: Actual movements** with defined agendas, a clear ideology, functionally organized and aware of the political impact of their actions.
** Not to confuse with random people trying to score merit points by supporting whatever the hell Buzzfeed tells them to.

[Sareva]

there's no economic incentive to raise children only encourages my point;

Wat.

I mean, I'll agree that the economic incentive is insufficient, but it is not absent. Not in any way.

I had a co-worker just get almost five grand in tax returns because of her only child. There are definitely some incentives, in the United States at least.

[Farnhamia]

Alright, so my main hazy things I've been reading a LOT of mixed commentary about:

-Domestic Violence: Lots of sources say that men are the most abused, lots of sources say that women are the most abused. One source I've read on even said that a lot of men go to jail for domestic abuse when they were the ones beaten by the woman.
-Lawful: In divorce and law cases, judges are likely to give women the hilt of a sword in divorce cases and give men the sharper edge, and women are more than likely to get lighter punishment for heinous crimes which men serve 25-to-life for.
-Social: Basically, it's a common thing to see men who like to hang with kids as pedophiles, when really they just like having friends from a different generation. It's happened to me before, really.

Shouldn't feminism be about the equal rights of men and women in society, rather than giving either gender an advantage and a disadvantage? And, also, can anyone point me further to the truth?

I'd like to see all the sides of the story before I come to conclusions.

NOTE: PLEASE NO FLAMING OR SPAMMING. And, please, follow the site rules. This is my first General topic I started revolving around a today issue.

If this first post offended anyone, I apologize. It's my personal opinion that women are as capable as men to do anything in this world, and this topic just baffles me the more I dig into it.

We already have a feminism thread, right here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=402223