by Xerographica » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:10 pm
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by Galloism » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:19 pm
by Neutraligon » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:23 pm
by Souseiseki » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:27 pm
by Xerographica » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:51 pm
Galloism wrote:Unfortunately, by forcing people to pay to express their preference, they are blind to certain information available to those not behind a paywall.
Galloism wrote:Then again, this concept is so libertarian, I can't help but be disappointed the libertarian party didn't think of it sooner.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by Galloism » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:59 pm
Xerographica wrote:Galloism wrote:Unfortunately, by forcing people to pay to express their preference, they are blind to certain information available to those not behind a paywall.
But shouldn't those members who spend more money to keep the LP alive have more say over its decisions? Isn't that kinda the same premise with shareholders?
Galloism wrote:Then again, this concept is so libertarian, I can't help but be disappointed the libertarian party didn't think of it sooner.
Me too! It's kinda rare when we agree. We should commorate this special occasion with applause...
by Xerographica » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:11 pm
Galloism wrote:Xerographica wrote:But shouldn't those members who spend more money to keep the LP alive have more say over its decisions? Isn't that kinda the same premise with shareholders?
No.
If you bought a few thousand dollars worth of apple shares back in the 80s, you'd have more say than people who bought many many millions worth of shares now.
Galloism wrote:Me too! It's kinda rare when we agree. We should commorate this special occasion with applause...
I seriously doubt that we agree on anything except "this is extremely libertarian". While it is an observation we can probably both agree on, the value judgements are very very different.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by Galloism » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:13 pm
Xerographica wrote:Galloism wrote:
No.
If you bought a few thousand dollars worth of apple shares back in the 80s, you'd have more say than people who bought many many millions worth of shares now.
Let's pretend that, for whatever reason, you own .0000001% of my house and I own the rest. Are you arguing that we should have an equal say over the color that I paint the house?
Galloism wrote:I seriously doubt that we agree on anything except "this is extremely libertarian". While it is an observation we can probably both agree on, the value judgements are very very different.
We agree that...
1. The idea is very libertarian
2. It's disappointing that the LP didn't think of it sooner
This is the most that we've ever agreed!
by Xerographica » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:36 pm
Galloism wrote:Xerographica wrote:Let's pretend that, for whatever reason, you own .0000001% of my house and I own the rest. Are you arguing that we should have an equal say over the color that I paint the house?
No, but that's about ownership and control, not investment.
I would think the same if you spent $1 million for your 99.9999999% of the house, and I came along some years later and spent $2 million on the other 0.0000001%.
Galloism wrote:We agree that...
1. The idea is very libertarian
2. It's disappointing that the LP didn't think of it sooner
This is the most that we've ever agreed!
I guess.
Of course, I think the Libertarian party, as an organization, is basically full of fail, whereas you are probably thinking it's a great idea.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by Galloism » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:40 pm
Xerographica wrote:The issue is whether pay should equal say. From my perspective, the more money that you donate to the LP, the more influence that you should have over its direction. If you donate $0 dollars to the LP and I donate $1,000,000 to the LP... it would be ludicrous for us to have equal influence over the theme for their 2018 convention. If it wasn't for my donation, then there probably wouldn't even be a 2018 convention.
Galloism wrote:I guess.
Of course, I think the Libertarian party, as an organization, is basically full of fail, whereas you are probably thinking it's a great idea.
Well I'm not a libertarian. But how could the LP possibly be full of fail if its big decisions are determined by the market?
Is Uber full of fail for transitioning to robot-driven cars? The market is responsible for answering this question. If the market actually makes the big decisions... then clearly there's going to be a lot less chance of fail. The market is probably not going to disapprove of a decision that IT made.
The market is probably not going to smack the LP for a decision that the MARKET itself made. The market is choosing the LP's convention theme. So how is the LP going to lose funding for having a theme that was chosen by the market? In theory, it should be the other way around. By having the most valuable theme, the LP itself becomes more valuable, which means that people will donate more money to it. If these donors can use their contributions to help determine the LP's direction... then it will be a virtuous cycle. The LP will quickly become the most valuable party. And then it will finally win.
by Xerographica » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:51 pm
Galloism wrote:The market is probably not going to smack the LP for a decision that the MARKET itself made. The market is choosing the LP's convention theme. So how is the LP going to lose funding for having a theme that was chosen by the market? In theory, it should be the other way around. By having the most valuable theme, the LP itself becomes more valuable, which means that people will donate more money to it. If these donors can use their contributions to help determine the LP's direction... then it will be a virtuous cycle. The LP will quickly become the most valuable party. And then it will finally win.
This is just more of the insane blabble that we're all used to.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by The Sauganash Union » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:55 pm
by Internationalist Bastard » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:01 pm
by Galloism » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:33 pm
Xerographica wrote:Galloism wrote:This is just more of the insane blabble that we're all used to.
Yeah, it might be insane... but it would help if you could be more specific...
1. The market is choosing the LP's theme
2. The market will choose the most valuable theme for the LP
3. Having the most valuable theme will increase the value of the LP
Are any of these arguments insane? If so, which ones? And... why, exactly, are they insane?
by Washington Resistance Army » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:45 pm
Galloism wrote:Xerographica wrote:Yeah, it might be insane... but it would help if you could be more specific...
1. The market is choosing the LP's theme
2. The market will choose the most valuable theme for the LP
3. Having the most valuable theme will increase the value of the LP
Are any of these arguments insane? If so, which ones? And... why, exactly, are they insane?
1, 2, and 3, specifically.
This is not a market, first off, as nothing is being exchanged.
Second, even if it were, there's no reason to assume this "market" (used in quotes because it's not really a market) will result in the most valuable choice being made, given the people who would actually donate to this probably mostly don't have a firm grasp of politics in the first place, given they're backing a horse that can't win.
Third, even if "the most valuable choice" is chosen, it doesn't change the electoral math. The system is very harsh to third parties, because this is how math works. A catchy slogan for the LP is like trying to propel a jumbo jet by farting out the back. Sure technically a fart creates thrust, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, but if you get an extra nanometer of distance you should probably see a doctor.
by Galloism » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:48 pm
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Galloism wrote:1, 2, and 3, specifically.
This is not a market, first off, as nothing is being exchanged.
Second, even if it were, there's no reason to assume this "market" (used in quotes because it's not really a market) will result in the most valuable choice being made, given the people who would actually donate to this probably mostly don't have a firm grasp of politics in the first place, given they're backing a horse that can't win.
Third, even if "the most valuable choice" is chosen, it doesn't change the electoral math. The system is very harsh to third parties, because this is how math works. A catchy slogan for the LP is like trying to propel a jumbo jet by farting out the back. Sure technically a fart creates thrust, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, but if you get an extra nanometer of distance you should probably see a doctor.
Gallo, I'm insulted
by The East Marches II » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:06 pm
by Xerographica » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:36 pm
Galloism wrote:This is not a market, first off, as nothing is being exchanged.
Galloism wrote:Second, even if it were, there's no reason to assume this "market" (used in quotes because it's not really a market) will result in the most valuable choice being made, given the people who would actually donate to this probably mostly don't have a firm grasp of politics in the first place, given they're backing a horse that can't win.
Galloism wrote:Third, even if "the most valuable choice" is chosen, it doesn't change the electoral math. The system is very harsh to third parties, because this is how math works. A catchy slogan for the LP is like trying to propel a jumbo jet by farting out the back. Sure technically a fart creates thrust, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, but if you get an extra nanometer of distance you should probably see a doctor.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by Lady Scylla » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:43 pm
by Xerographica » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:52 pm
Lady Scylla wrote:Xerographica wrote:Money is being exchanged for warm fuzzies... so it is a market.
Erm. No. That's just a transaction. Markets are sectors involving thousands of transactions from numerous sources. And a transaction only happens if money is being exchanged for good, services, or financial assets. If money is being given expecting a return of either financial or other favours, it is an investment.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by Lady Scylla » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:58 pm
Xerographica wrote:Lady Scylla wrote:
Erm. No. That's just a transaction. Markets are sectors involving thousands of transactions from numerous sources. And a transaction only happens if money is being exchanged for good, services, or financial assets. If money is being given expecting a return of either financial or other favours, it is an investment.
On CharityNavigator... you can shop around for a non-profit that is going to give you the most warm fuzzies for your dollars. So it's the market that decides how much money PETA gets. Just like it's the market that decides how much money each LP theme gets. Because it's certainly not up to the LP to decide how much money each theme gets.
by Xerographica » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:05 am
Lady Scylla wrote:Xerographica wrote:
On CharityNavigator... you can shop around for a non-profit that is going to give you the most warm fuzzies for your dollars. So it's the market that decides how much money PETA gets. Just like it's the market that decides how much money each LP theme gets. Because it's certainly not up to the LP to decide how much money each theme gets.
That is still not a market. Warm fuzzies are not goods, services, or financial assets -- and therefore not a transaction.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
by Xerographica » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:12 am
Uiiop wrote:Let's see if there will be some troll donations....
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Aadhiris, Ethel mermania, Fauxia, Great Eddy, Haganham, Ineva, Jerzylvania, Neo-Hermitius, The Two Jerseys, Tiami, Tungstan, Uiiop, Zandos, Zurkerx
Advertisement