1870 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC]

[The V O I D]

Italy is a moderate Marxist-Pierrean state, France is a hardcore staunch Marxist-Pierrean state...

Will China be moderate or hardcore or invent its own communism based on Marxist-Pierrean thought?

Also, @Thrace, I understand I don't control things in other people's countries and such, but it sounds to me like you're saying they can say communism doesn't exist in their borders or some such, and can handwave away the fact that communism in Western Europe is somewhat of an issue due to France encouraging it and being a major communist power. Not to mention that while I can't control what happens in their borders, I can control French socialist smugglers and such going into their countries to meet with their revolutionaries to smuggle weapons and such. Whether they succeed or not may vary, tho...

Well lets put it this way. Do you feel I should be able to say there is a strong pro-german monarchy leaning dissidence in the benelux region. Then i said i armed and suppirted a revolt in your territory to form the protectorate of benelux under german rule.

Would you really accept that? I highly doubt that and you cannot expect others to accept that.

Not saying that. What I'm saying is that one can't handwave away issues as if they don't exist if they don't want the issues, and communist revolutionary ideals would be a serious issue especially in countries with direct borders to France.

Therefor, I think it is the duty of the OP Board to sort of, if I can't, RP as smugglers and rebels and such. This way it is neutral (or as neutral as can be) and players have something else to react to aside from what they pick and choose to react to.

@DEA. Ah, interesting...

[Tracian Empire]

Well lets put it this way. Do you feel I should be able to say there is a strong pro-german monarchy leaning dissidence in the benelux region. Then i said i armed and suppirted a revolt in your territory to form the protectorate of benelux under german rule.

Would you really accept that? I highly doubt that and you cannot expect others to accept that.

Not saying that. What I'm saying is that one can't handwave away issues as if they don't exist if they don't want the issues, and communist revolutionary ideals would be a serious issue especially in countries with direct borders to France.

Therefor, I think it is the duty of the OP Board to sort of, if I can't, RP as smugglers and rebels and such. This way it is neutral (or as neutral as can be) and players have something else to react to aside from what they pick and choose to react to.

@DEA. Ah, interesting...

As long as it is not in their apps, or in a guidance that directly affects their nations, no players are obliged to do anything. Would Helghan be able to completely ignore the possible existence of communism in his nation? No, due to some basic realism. But how strong and active the communist movement in his nation is is completely and solely his decision. You can attempt to change that and help that movement ICly, but you won't start with important communist movements in any other countries without that player accepting that. And making plans of Spanish, German, and Scandinavian socialist Republics is a little too ambitious.

[Tracian Empire]

Italy is a moderate Marxist-Pierrean state, France is a hardcore staunch Marxist-Pierrean state...

Will China be moderate or hardcore or invent its own communism based on Marxist-Pierrean thought?

Also, @Thrace, I understand I don't control things in other people's countries and such, but it sounds to me like you're saying they can say communism doesn't exist in their borders or some such, and can handwave away the fact that communism in Western Europe is somewhat of an issue due to France encouraging it and being a major communist power. Not to mention that while I can't control what happens in their borders, I can control French socialist smugglers and such going into their countries to meet with their revolutionaries to smuggle weapons and such. Whether they succeed or not may vary, tho...

But they control their revolutionaries, and that's it. If a player wants to roleplay their communist revolutionaries taking over with help from you, that's alright, it is their choice. But if Helghan doesn't want it, his government won't be ever taken down from the inside. France can be a major communist power that encourages communism how much she wants, but that doesn't mean that suddenly, all of Western Europe will have major communist movements.

[Second Helghan Empire]

Hey trace doing any coronation this time at the beginning?

[Tracian Empire]

Hey trace doing any coronation this time at the beginning?

Not sure.

I would like too, but well, the previous two events in Constantinople didn't end all that well.

[Novacom]

Not saying that. What I'm saying is that one can't handwave away issues as if they don't exist if they don't want the issues, and communist revolutionary ideals would be a serious issue especially in countries with direct borders to France.

Therefor, I think it is the duty of the OP Board to sort of, if I can't, RP as smugglers and rebels and such. This way it is neutral (or as neutral as can be) and players have something else to react to aside from what they pick and choose to react to.

@DEA. Ah, interesting...

As long as it is not in their apps, or in a guidance that directly affects their nations, no players are obliged to do anything. Would Helghan be able to completely ignore the possible existence of communism in his nation? No, due to some basic realism. But how strong and active the communist movement in his nation is is completely and solely his decision. You can attempt to change that and help that movement ICly, but you won't start with important communist movements in any other countries without that player accepting that. And making plans of Spanish, German, and Scandinavian socialist Republics is a little too ambitious.

Not only that but Communism isn't even fully formed in this timeline yet the closest to it is Syndicalism (It will as an aside be interesting to see what Pilne Ilan'zō, the Father of "Modern" Socialist thought in this timeline, makes of these blowhards ) and even that's in a proto stage, not only that all this nonsense about spreading like wildfire isn't going to have the same impact yet due to most nations only now starting to improve literacy and the like so the long and short of it is look to your own internal problems before looking to causing such for others

[Tracian Empire]

And let's take Italy and me as an example. I'm really close to the communist Italy, and yet I don't think that there will be more than a few hundred people in the entire Imperium to sympathize with communism in the close future.

[Mechanist Combine]

Full Nation Name : Norse Republic of Scandinavia
Flag: Le Flag
Majority/Official Culture : Norse
Territorial Core : Sweden, Finland, Norway
Territorial Claim : None
Capital City : Stockholm, Sweden
Population : ~9.7 Million

Government Type : Social Republic
Government Ideology/Policies : Unity, Equality, Order
Government Focus : Defence of borders, Keeping control of Scandinavia
Head of State : Minister Áleifr Arnbjorg (Klassiskt Liberala Partiet)
Head of Government : The Republican Council (Controlling Party: Sveriges Socialdemokratiska arbetarparti)
Government Description : The government has three councils (The Republican Council (3 year terms), the Council of territorial Unions (8 year terms, leaders of unions), and the Democratic Assembly (Public, no terms)). There are three parties currently they are; Sveriges Socialdemokratiska arbetarparti (Socialist), Sverigedemokraterna (Conservative), Klassiskt Liberala Partiet (Moderate Liberal)

Majority/State Religion : "The Old Faith" (Norse paganism)
Religious Description : N/A

Economic Ideologies : Social-Capitalism (Markets and economy managed by the government, citizens are free to start businesses as they wish, but all is owned by the government)
Major Production : Lumber, Ships, Machinery, Raw Metals (Iron/ Steel), Weapons, Fish
Economic Description : The economy is very managed, with expenditures distributed to certain sectors and used there to produce for the country. But citizens are allowed to start their own businesses in certain business sectors, all businesses are in the end owned by the government.

Army Strength & Weakness : With a very in depth training program and the military had fully adopted revolvers in both the sidearm and rifle capacities. The Army is organised into small elite divisions (Bands) throughout the country many are positioned near the country's borders. These bands are only about 3,000-5,000 soldiers and these bands tend to be scattered apart from one another all around the NRS.
Naval Strength & Weakness : The Navy specialises in small fast steamships on the other hand ships have a massive lack of hull armor and are very vulnerable to cannon shots because of this, often going down in only one hit. They are light and hard to hit, the vessels have very few anti-ship weapons or artillery on them, mostly sporting 3-4 puckle guns and 1(or rarely 2) 6 pounder field gun, refitted for ships.
Further Military Description: Uniforms (Ignore the Backround)

National Issues : Need for imported food due to long winters.
National Figures of Interest : None
National Ambition/Aspirations : The government wishes to fully industrialise the country and become less dependent on other countries for food.

History :

1066: Viking raids cease being profitable and thus stop.
1066-1200: Old Norse societies are still in place, the old faith meets christianity, priests convert many Jarls in hopes of their subjects converting with them. this failed as most of the Norsemen's beliefs were seemingly set in stone.
1200: Jarl Erikson conquers Norway, Sweden and Finland, and begins a reign of terror in Scandinavia, Erikson leads a christian rule
1238: Jarl Erikson dies, a large power struggle begins, many still believe in the old faith as Erikson's attempts to willingly convert his subjects regularly failed.
1400: Scandinavia reunited under the banner of Jarl Agmundr, Agmundr is too a christian, though his rule is weak, having poor control over its military forces he was unable to truly enforce his religion on the populace
1450: Finnish and Norwegian peasants rebel after the Jarl begins to extort them with heavy taxes, many rebels are believers of the old faith, bitter about having been oppressed in their society
1500: The Kingdom of Finland and Empire of Norway split the land in two and rule in peace for a time, both ruled by those who follow the old faith.
1567: The Empire of Norway is attacked and conquered by The Kingdom of Finland
1670: The Kingdom of Finland collapses due to economic pressures and breaks into many faction who fight for control of the country.
1700: The Scandinavian Empire is formed after all the factions are conquered. Many still worship the old faith, seeing christianity as an oppressive and cruel religion for leaders to wield against the people.
1790: New SE leadership proves to be cowardly, weak, and cruel, oppressing its citizens. Its Emperor is rarely seen but its military is well organised and well equipped. Many believers of the old faith still through the land even though the government's religious laws persecutes all who are not christian.
1860: Inspired by the French revolution Scandinavian citizens revolt, quickly taking Stockholm and overthrowing the Emperor, Many of the old faith have taught it to their children, and their children's children, and so on. Ignore the religious law set in place for them in kingdoms past.
1861: The new government would begin to form and takes control of the the Empire's former land, the new government would take the name Norse Republic of Scandinavia. Jarls integrated into the citizenry and striped of all power.
1862: A Constitution is Enacted for the NRS, giving rights to the citizenry and increased rights to workers, introducing socialist policies, economic management, and a democratic system.
1865: The NRS begins to heavily industrialise. seeing the need to become industrial in the modern world.
1870: The NRS has become an partially industrialised nation, producing weapons and ships for other countries but mostly for its own military. It is still industrialising.

Comparison Points – Political : 2
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 2
Comparison Points – Economy : 3
Comparison Points – Military : 3
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 10/10
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

So, anything else ya'll think I need or should fix/ change?

[Tracian Empire]

I don't know why you changed the app format, it's not that big of a problem, but in the future, you should keep the app formats as they are.

It looks good to me, so if no other CO-OP has anything else to say, accepted.

[Mechanist Combine]

I don't know why you changed the app format, it's not that big of a problem, but in the future, you should keep the app formats as they are.

It looks good to me, so if no other CO-OP has anything else to say, accepted.

Format change.... Oh, the Army thing, it just ended up being easier for me and flowing better to combine the strengths and weaknesses.

[Tracian Empire]

I don't know why you changed the app format, it's not that big of a problem, but in the future, you should keep the app formats as they are.

It looks good to me, so if no other CO-OP has anything else to say, accepted.

Format change.... Oh, the Army thing, it just ended up being easier for me and flowing better to combine the strengths and weaknesses.

True, and that's not such a big problem, but the format is there for a reason. Players are supposed to make their apps to follow the format, not to change the format to better suit their apps.

[Sanabel]

Ruthenia will likely have some kind of syndicalist revolt that will lead to reactionary forces re-establishing the Oprichniki and if need be re-seizing control of the state.

I do not intend to have Ruthenia become communist.

[Tracian Empire]

Ruthenia will likely have some kind of syndicalist revolt that will lead to reactionary forces re-establishing the Oprichniki and if need be re-seizing control of the state.

I do not intend to have Ruthenia become communist.

And those reactionary forces will have the full support of the Imperium and of the Auctorinus.

[The Brand New Salvatagard Republic]

Reservation

Nation Name:The Great Swedish Empire
Territory:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/LocationSwedishEmpire.png
Colonies: Eritrea, Djibouti, Ghana, Liberia, Mozambique, Western Sahara Territory, Suriname, Guyana, Florida
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

[Tracian Empire]

Reservation

Nation Name:The Great Swedish Empire
Territory:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/LocationSwedishEmpire.png
Colonies: Eritrea, Djibouti, Ghana, Liberia, Mozambique, Western Sahara Territory, Suriname, Guyana, Florida
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

Why? Just look around, check the lists. 99% of what you claim here has already been taken.

[Cymrea]

Cymrea, what do you think of this new revised history? I wanted your input because your name is in it. If it's good, I'll change my app to this.
Revised history:
History same as RL up until 1750's (other than exceptions made by other applicants), other than Native people in the Northwestern US having developed trade relations with the Aztec people to the south of them.
In the mid-1700's, the Cambrians began building more cities in the western areas of Cambrian Canada. Thus began the first trade relations between the Cambrians and the nomadic tribes of the Northern Plains and the fishing hunter-gatherers of the upper Pacific coast. Finding much in common between their tribal beliefs and the Druidic beliefs of the Cambrians, the Natives began a mutually beneficial relationship with the Cambrians. In addition to traditional trading, the Cambrians provided the Natives with new technologies like mining, mechanical weapons, and agriculture; while the Natives proved to be great guides, providing a wealth of knowledge about local terrain, animals, and weather. Native tribes began to settle into villages to tend to crops and trading, but some remained nomadic.
With the newly found technological resources, it gave Native tribes something new to fight over. Eventually, around 1810, a large war broke out between the Salish and Blackfoot people over traditional hunting grounds in the Bitterroot Valley of RL western Montana. The first major Native American war fought with guns, the casualties were extensive. Charles Dark Eagle, a Blackfoot warrior, became known all across Native territory for his bravery in this battle, rallying his troops to victory.
Charles Dark Eagle, Thomas Whitehorse, William Standsalone and other Native American leaders saw the need to prevent tragedies like this by creating a tribal court to resolve territorial disputes in. This court slowly evolved into a cohesive government for the Blackfoot and the Salish, based out of the largest Salish settlement, Kalispel, on the northern banks of Flathead Lake. Dark Eagle, a charismatic leader, was handed the position of Grand Chief at only 25 years old. As the judge of the intertribal court, the position of Grand Chief became a position of benevolent dictatorship and this tribal government began to be known as the Blackfoot-Salish Federation. This government began to handle more than just intertribal affairs, as it became involved in diplomacy with trading partners and other nations.
Thomas Whitehorse, revered by the Salish as a medicine man and preacher, began speaking of the tenants of a new religion called the Tradition of the Land Spirits at about this time. Between native people's attraction to this and the stability of the Blackfoot-Salish Federation, many people from surrounding tribes started to flock to Kalispel around 1825.
As these people continued trade with the Salish, they became increasingly convinced that the Federation was something they wanted to be a part of. Over the next 10 years, the Utes, Crow, Paiute, Shoshone, Tilamook, Cree, Sioux, Spokane, Chinook, Klamath, Pawnee, Shasta, Arapaho, and a multitude of smaller tribes joined the Federation, which gained the official name of The Federation of Northern Native Tribes. However, the people of all the tribes are beginning to identify as Salish, and their culture is collectively known, and the Blackfoot-Salish Federation is the name preferred by most.
By 1850, Charles Dark Eagle had been the leader of the Salish for nearly 40 years. He and his collaborators crushed dissidents who believed in individual tribes seceding from the Federation. In the time from its foundation, the Federation formed major cities in Kalispel (RL Kallispell, MT), Great Spirit Lake (RL Salt Lake City) and Ninqually (RL Seattle/Puget Sound). In addition, Salish technology has improved to the level of an average European nation.

Treaties have been signed that distinguish the 49th parallel as the border between the Federation and Cambrian Canada, and also defined borders with the Aztecs to the south and with other nations in North America.

This looks great! Nice job.

[Democratic East-Asia]

Ruthenia will likely have some kind of syndicalist revolt that will lead to reactionary forces re-establishing the Oprichniki and if need be re-seizing control of the state.

I do not intend to have Ruthenia become communist.

Opposite of what I have planned for China. The former middle kingdom will become increasingly leftist.

[Cymrea]

And Italy has one of the best navies in the world...

Evidently everyone thinks that, so that's highly subjective.

Just building on this thought: I've participated in many Victorian- and Napoleonic-era faction RPs, and all of them include naval battles at some point. It just how warfare was conducted back in those days. Some of the RPs had some pretty well defined rules regarding militaries and tech. But no matter what, it always boils down to what you post in IC. I've seen superior navies roleplayed poorly, or without a solid knowledge of tactics, and I've seen those navies routed by good writing and creative thinking.

It's those sorts of creative endeavours that we focus on in this RP. We don't devolve into arguments over number-wanking or Mary Sue militaries, and that is one reason people keep coming back here.

Let's all keep our best efforts directed at great diplomacy and creative interactions. The whole point is not to win, but to tell a good story about our particular alternate Earth.

[The Brand New Salvatagard Republic]

Reservation

Nation Name:The Great Swedish Empire
Territory:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/LocationSwedishEmpire.png
Colonies: Eritrea, Djibouti, Ghana, Liberia, Mozambique, Western Sahara Territory, Suriname, Guyana, Florida
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

Why? Just look around, check the lists. 99% of what you claim here has already been taken.

I checked all the accepted apps.

[Mechanist Combine]

Why? Just look around, check the lists. 99% of what you claim here has already been taken.

I checked all the accepted apps.

I already have a reservation for most of that land and have recently had my app accepted by an OP (Unless any other ones have complaints about it). The point is even if they do I still have that land reserved for 24+ hours due to when my reservation was placed.

[Cymrea]

Why? Just look around, check the lists. 99% of what you claim here has already been taken.

I checked all the accepted apps.

The accepted reservations include land claims as well. As it happens Scandinavia was Reserved and now Accepted as a faction. If you like, we could use a good Brazil.

[Tracian Empire]

Why? Just look around, check the lists. 99% of what you claim here has already been taken.

I checked all the accepted apps.

A concept known as "reservations" exist. When a player reserves a territory, those territories are blocked for them until they finish their apps. Most of the lands that you have claimed are either in accepted apps or in reservations.

[Alt Div Admin]

Atreidya: please post your app soon, if you haven't yet.

[Cymrea]

Map and OP updated. In my zeal, I have already added the Native Federation, URA, New Venice, and Spain, as well as now-Accepted Scandinavia. This should also make new applications a bit easier.

[Cymrea]

Well lets put it this way. Do you feel I should be able to say there is a strong pro-german monarchy leaning dissidence in the benelux region. Then i said i armed and suppirted a revolt in your territory to form the protectorate of benelux under german rule.

Would you really accept that? I highly doubt that and you cannot expect others to accept that.

Not saying that. What I'm saying is that one can't handwave away issues as if they don't exist if they don't want the issues, and communist revolutionary ideals would be a serious issue especially in countries with direct borders to France.

Therefor, I think it is the duty of the OP Board to sort of, if I can't, RP as smugglers and rebels and such. This way it is neutral (or as neutral as can be) and players have something else to react to aside from what they pick and choose to react to.

@DEA. Ah, interesting...

It's not that issues would be handwaved away, necessarily, it's that every player has sovereignty over his/her nation. As such, you cannot roleplay events and results that directly affect another nation without their consent and (usually) assistance. It works both ways: you won't be sending in rabble rousers to spark a revolution in a neighbour's capital, and others won't be infiltration your nation to give Gordon Gecko speeches convincing them that greed is good.