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by Vancouvia » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:12 am
by Verdon » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:13 pm
Chitownia wrote:Might be a little late for this, but how should I get started on my history factbook? What have we decided on so far as general Gael history?
by Vancouvia » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:55 pm
by Vancouvia » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:24 am
by Athara Magarat » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:03 am
Vancouvia wrote:very keen to add/change anything especially where I have significant holes
by Agadar » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:26 am
Ostehaar wrote:If no one has objections to Van's post, I'll add it to the dispatch as soon as I can.
by Noronica » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:13 am
by Vancouvia » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:28 am
by Vancouvia » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:28 am
by Vancouvia » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:41 am
by Vancouvia » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:25 pm
Athara Magarat wrote:Vancouvia wrote:very keen to add/change anything especially where I have significant holes
We talked this in the TG but you wanted me to post this here. So everyone please excuse me for this one time as I write something related to Vaenland.
Copy-pasted from the TG.I saw the settlement of Vaenland thing and got interested.
It is established fact that after 1232 when Queen Magaidh married the younger brother of Selling Hang, the Nyssics and the Khas-Kirat Empire became allies. Selling Hang and some of his successors might have some interest in settling on faraway lands without any conquest and bloodshed (I know that was not the case).
Initially only some men and women from the Yakthung Thibon (the horde gifted to Queen Magaidh) would have settled at Vaenland.
However during the rule of Kham Hang from 1370 to 1381; the Kham peoples who were dominant in what is now Athara Magarat started a rebellion and threw away other Khas-Kirati tribes. They divided the huge empire into an island nation with 18 small squabbling kingdoms.
The non-Kham peoples who were chased away could have gone to Vaenland. I had initially thought of having them gone only to Bhikkustan but now I want them to have gone north to Vaenland as well. Other nations could have shunned them for the mass rape, murder and destruction they had previously brought except for Vaenland. Even Nyssics could have claimed that they accepted only Kirat-Limbus (who formed the Yakthung Thibon) as per the treaty and no other. Atnaia was unwelcoming at that time, Bhumidol has a history of not taking many refugees, Covonant was using the Khas-Kiratis as slaves, etc...you get it. Nonetheless, they all have some Khas-Kirati minority much akin to what Jews were to Europe.
Why I am doing is this is that at that time this island would have more than 10-15 times the population (not only Khas-Kiratis but various conquered peoples blahblah huge empire's population) than today's 1 million. There were hundreds of ethnic groups with their own cultures but the victorious Kham peoples enforced heavy taxation (something akin to what Muslims did to non-Muslims in their lands) on them were they to stay at homeland. And virtually every other nation would have been happy that the days of the hordes were finally gone.
So these helpless (dunno what else to call them), would have arrived at Vaenland after being kicked out by the Khams who later on got swallowed by the Atnaian Empire (that is karma, my friend) and overpopulating Bhikkustan aka Ghodakosuddhabhumi.
After that there was the 400 years of Atnaian colonization from 1515 to 1915 that could have forced many to migrate to the mythical Vaenland, etc.
With this, I can tell where the millions of displaced Khas-Kirati peoples ended up. And certainly, like I said before, not all of them could have come to Vaenland, just that they could have been more welcome at Vaenland (except for Bhikkustan) than at most other Isles nations. The Asiatic population in modern-day Vancouvia could be the Kirati peoples along with other peoples nonetheless and the Khas taking place of the
Central Asian folks.
What do you guys think?
by Noronica » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:34 pm
Vancouvia wrote:Vancouvia wrote:
I thought Petlan referred to Independence and Vaenland referred to the main island
Yeah sorry if this wasn't clear. I made Petlan refer to the specific eastern isle (Independence) while Vaenland is the entire island group.
"This caused many to flee the island, some taking boats and seeking refuge in and island they called, 'Petlan Isle' (now called Vancouvia)."
That's correct, but maybe change the parenthesis to (now called Independence Island).
"In 1072, Edmund authorised a settlement to be built on the previously named 'Independence Island', after being informed of its vast wealth in timber and hunting game. Near the southern shores, the Duchy of Vaenland was created, the title added to the monarch of Noronica. Edmund was re-coronated, Edmund, King of Nyssic and Duke of Vaenland."
This should not mention Independence Island and instead just mention the main Vancouvian island's southern shores. Independence/Petlan is much harsher than the main island and just slowly becomes a haven for pirates but is mostly ruled by wildlife until modern times.
"Amongst the chaos, the Vaenland Council (Vaenland was the new name for the Petlan Isle - Vancouvia) issues the "Free Land Accords" which declare that Vaenland would never have a monarch and instead shall be ruled by an elected oligarchy. "
So just remove the parenthesis part.
by Athara Magarat » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:48 pm
Vancouvia wrote:
After doing some research on your factbooks and everything, the only problem I have with this is millions. I want Vaenland to remain relatively sparsely populated, decline in the 1930s-1970s, and then have a massive revival due to a nuclear rush beginning in the 1980s.
Proposed addition:
1370 to 1400: Minority groups from Athara Magarat begin to arrive in Vaenland seeking a better life after the crumbling of the Khas-Kirat Empire. These people bring with them numerous scientific technologies, including advances in astronomy, mathematics, shipbuilding, and most importantly: gunpowder. Quickly becoming the dominant minority group, they were nevertheless treated fairly well by the native Nyssic-Vaenlanders, who adopted a sort of reverence for their scientific expertise. Immigrants from Athara Magarat, most seeking asylum from the expanding Atnaian Empire, continued to arrive for the next 400 years in significant number.
by Noronica » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:58 am
Athara Magarat wrote:Vancouvia wrote:
After doing some research on your factbooks and everything, the only problem I have with this is millions. I want Vaenland to remain relatively sparsely populated, decline in the 1930s-1970s, and then have a massive revival due to a nuclear rush beginning in the 1980s.
Proposed addition:
1370 to 1400: Minority groups from Athara Magarat begin to arrive in Vaenland seeking a better life after the crumbling of the Khas-Kirat Empire. These people bring with them numerous scientific technologies, including advances in astronomy, mathematics, shipbuilding, and most importantly: gunpowder. Quickly becoming the dominant minority group, they were nevertheless treated fairly well by the native Nyssic-Vaenlanders, who adopted a sort of reverence for their scientific expertise. Immigrants from Athara Magarat, most seeking asylum from the expanding Atnaian Empire, continued to arrive for the next 400 years in significant number.
Sure. I am idiot honestly (I facepalmed). Thousands not millions, corrected.
Nyssic-Vaenlanders would have no problem ain't that right, Noronica?
by Verdon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:12 pm
Vancouvia wrote:the Guard proves to be an effective mercenary force in many skirmishes and wars across the region, including the Verdonian War of the Stripes, Noronnican conquest of Arván, and [other conflicts].
...
1893-1895: Several mercenary regiments of the Vaen Guard participate in the First Oster War on the Verdonian side, wherein they commit many atrocities against the Oster people, horrifying Vaenlanders when this is discovered later. The Council and Guard both vow to never again permit such action.
1915: Vaenland controversially begins the production of chemical gases for usage in warfare and sells them to the highest bidders.
1925-1927: The Second Oster War occurs. Vaenlanders, now deeply sympathetic for the Oster cause, join the Osters in the war to take back their country, with many regiments fighting on the front line and ironically subjected to their own chemical weapons sold to Verdon just years prior.
1930-1939: The country collapses as the Great Depression collides with internal strife. Unemployment rises to some of the highest levels in the entire region. Entire towns are abandoned, many people devolve back to the subsistence hunting of their ancestors, and the cove loses all value on the international market. The Council, deeply rotted for decades by corruption, declares martial law and hires allied gangs to fight against their rivals. A massive exodus occurs, with millions of Vaenlanders moving to Argus, Gael, and the Four Passages.
by Vancouvia » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:21 pm
Verdon wrote:Vancouvia wrote:the Guard proves to be an effective mercenary force in many skirmishes and wars across the region, including the Verdonian War of the Stripes, Noronnican conquest of Arván, and [other conflicts].
...
1893-1895: Several mercenary regiments of the Vaen Guard participate in the First Oster War on the Verdonian side, wherein they commit many atrocities against the Oster people, horrifying Vaenlanders when this is discovered later. The Council and Guard both vow to never again permit such action.
1915: Vaenland controversially begins the production of chemical gases for usage in warfare and sells them to the highest bidders.
1925-1927: The Second Oster War occurs. Vaenlanders, now deeply sympathetic for the Oster cause, join the Osters in the war to take back their country, with many regiments fighting on the front line and ironically subjected to their own chemical weapons sold to Verdon just years prior.
1930-1939: The country collapses as the Great Depression collides with internal strife. Unemployment rises to some of the highest levels in the entire region. Entire towns are abandoned, many people devolve back to the subsistence hunting of their ancestors, and the cove loses all value on the international market. The Council, deeply rotted for decades by corruption, declares martial law and hires allied gangs to fight against their rivals. A massive exodus occurs, with millions of Vaenlanders moving to Argus, Gael, and the Four Passages.
Loving this idea of a defunct military oligarchy for hire. I would imagine that the Vaen Guard would have been heavily employed by Verdon between 1890 and 1930 to help control it's territories (later on, most of these are losing battles, if that helps you curtail your population better). The point where your economic depression begins and my hiring of your armies ends coincides very well and probably helps exacerbate the downfall of Vaenland. Verdon is in large amounts of debt at this time, which nicely opens a power vacuum for Ostehaar coming in to the late 20th century.
by Verdon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:00 pm
Vancouvia wrote:So the Vaen Guard losing in Verdonian conflicts leads to a decline in reputation, then we lose that "contract" when we side with Ostehaar in 1925 (refusing to again fight against them and needing a new client). After the war, mercenary forces lose their utility and the government grows a military debt trying to hold onto them. Does that sound good and do you have any specific conflicts or events in that time period?
by Athara Magarat » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:45 pm
by Noronica » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:31 am
Athara Magarat wrote:
Verdon sir, I don't want to sound like a jerk but there are some corrections.
Karahar was invaded by one of the several groups Khas-Kiratis fleeing modern-day Athara Magarat after the dissolution of their empire. They came in 1457 and were only in power for 13 years before the Hunnic peoples crushed and chased them away; possibly to other Gael areas with Khas-Kirati populations Vaenland, Arvan and Noronica.
I think Hunnic peoples and other nonadic ethnic groups from Karahar ought to be on that map. I think you shoul contact him as well since he is in Gael.
And Noronica, were the Kirat-Sunuwars the dominant people in Arvan during the 1500s or had the Nyssics turned them into minorities?
by Agadar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:41 am
by Verdon » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:59 am
Athara Magarat wrote:Karahar was invaded by one of the several groups Khas-Kiratis fleeing modern-day Athara Magarat after the dissolution of their empire. They came in 1457 and were only in power for 13 years before the Hunnic peoples crushed and chased them away
I think Hunnic peoples and other nonadic ethnic groups from Karahar ought to be on that map. I think you shoul contact him as well since he is in Gael.
And Noronica, were the Kirat-Sunuwars the dominant people in Arvan during the 1500s or had the Nyssics turned them into minorities?
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