Guns in Schools

[New Axiom]

Screw that they should be given .50 cal revolvers something that would make Dirty Harry blush.

Great, now they can take out the school shooter and the people in the next two rooms behind him.

Talk about self defense, becuase, obviously, the people in the next two rooms behind him clearly instigated the shooting.

/s

[Crockerland]

There is no reason not to support this.

[Trotskylvania]

I hope you don't mean a teacher.

Sure, why not?
Doing a quick search on firearms training for teachers, its begun.
Teachers receive firearms training

Instead of training amateurs who may not be capable of taking a life, and will probably make a bad situation worse, why don't we instead rely upon trained professionals to deal with the extraordinarily rare phenomenon of school shootings.

[McFreedomstan]

Sure, why not?
Doing a quick search on firearms training for teachers, its begun.
Teachers receive firearms training

Instead of training amateurs who may not be capable of taking a life, and will probably make a bad situation worse, why don't we instead rely upon trained professionals to deal with the extraordinarily rare phenomenon of school shootings.

Outside of the military and more elite police units, the line between amateur and trained professional is very thin. If you want to be that guy delivering gold bars to the local warehouse with an AR-15 in the truck and a glock on your hip or the guy with a pistol that escorts a VIP to their car, you only need 8 hours of terminology, legal, and moral training spread over the course of several weeks along with 6 hours at the range (and ~$400 for applications and fees). This might vary state by state, but generally being a trained armed guard is fairly simple. Most people don't do it because $12-17/hr isn't worth getting shot over.

[Frank Zipper]

The best way to reduce the number of school shootings with guns, would probably be to shoot all the TV reporters and camera people who turn up whenever there is a school shooting. They massively increase the fear of a school shooting out of all proportion to the risk of one happening.

[New haven america]

Honestly, since 100% of school shootings happen at schools, I vote we just ban schools. *Nod*

[New Axiom]

Honestly, since 100% of school shootings happen at schools, I vote we just ban schools. *Nod*

Oh my God, I think this guys onta somethin!!

[Washington Resistance Army]

The best way to reduce the number of school shootings with guns, would probably be to shoot all the TV reporters and camera people who turn up whenever there is a school shooting. They massively increase the fear of a school shooting out of all proportion to the risk of one happening.

IIRC whenever there's reporting of something like that happening copycat attempts also increase for a few months afterwards.

#RepealThe1A

[Calladan]

This has to be an American state of mind, because I really do not get it.

The best way to solve the problem of guns in schools is to put MORE guns in schools.

I turn 44 on Saturday. In my lifetime, there has been one school shooting. Just one. And the government response was not to put armed guards in every school in the country, it was to take the guns off everyone in the country.

And that seems to have worked. There has only been one more mass shooting since then (in 2010), and no more school shootings on the same scale. It hasn't stopped people shooting each other - I am not saying it has - but it does seem to have had a huge affect on stopping mass shootings and school shootings.

So - for me - adding more guns to the equation seems to be a dumb ass way to go.

But like I said - maybe it is an American state of mind.

[Community Values]

This has to be an American state of mind, because I really do not get it.

The best way to solve the problem of guns in schools is to put MORE guns in schools.

I turn 44 on Saturday. In my lifetime, there has been one school shooting. Just one. And the government response was not to put armed guards in every school in the country, it was to take the guns off everyone in the country.

And that seems to have worked. There has only been one more mass shooting since then (in 2010), and no more school shootings on the same scale. It hasn't stopped people shooting each other - I am not saying it has - but it does seem to have had a huge affect on stopping mass shootings and school shootings.

So - for me - adding more guns to the equation seems to be a dumb ass way to go.

But like I said - maybe it is an American state of mind.

Why would putting more guns in the solution not work?

[Big Jim P]

This has to be an American state of mind, because I really do not get it.

The best way to solve the problem of guns in schools is to put MORE guns in schools.

I turn 44 on Saturday. In my lifetime, there has been one school shooting. Just one. And the government response was not to put armed guards in every school in the country, it was to take the guns off everyone in the country.

And that seems to have worked. There has only been one more mass shooting since then (in 2010), and no more school shootings on the same scale. It hasn't stopped people shooting each other - I am not saying it has - but it does seem to have had a huge affect on stopping mass shootings and school shootings.

So - for me - adding more guns to the equation seems to be a dumb ass way to go.

But like I said - maybe it is an American state of mind.

It's not the number of guns in schools, it's WHO has the guns. Duh.

[Big Jim P]

[Alvecia]

(Image)

I believe the issue is that this meme remains relevant if you replace the word "defend" with "shoot up"

[Crockerland]

[Telconi]

This has to be an American state of mind, because I really do not get it.

The best way to solve the problem of guns in schools is to put MORE guns in schools.

I turn 44 on Saturday. In my lifetime, there has been one school shooting. Just one. And the government response was not to put armed guards in every school in the country, it was to take the guns off everyone in the country.

And that seems to have worked. There has only been one more mass shooting since then (in 2010), and no more school shootings on the same scale. It hasn't stopped people shooting each other - I am not saying it has - but it does seem to have had a huge affect on stopping mass shootings and school shootings.

So - for me - adding more guns to the equation seems to be a dumb ass way to go.

But like I said - maybe it is an American state of mind.

Guns in schools aren't the problem. Murderers is schools are. And guns have a proven track record of effectively stopping murderers from murdering.

And yes, you can reduce school shootings by taking gins from people. Just like we could reduce radical Islamic terrorista from terrorizing if we just banned islam. But nobody proposes that? Why?

[Jamzmania]

(Image)

I believe the issue is that this meme remains relevant if you replace the word "defend" with "shoot up"

We shoot up our children with a sign?

[Alvecia]

I believe the issue is that this meme remains relevant if you replace the word "defend" with "shoot up"

We shoot up our children with a sign?

If you're being pedantic, no.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I like the way it is here in Canada, two peace officers with guns, no one else is allowed to have a gun.

[Jamzmania]

I like the way it is here in Canada, two peace officers with guns, no one else is allowed to have a gun.

That's basically what we had at my Texas public schools.

[Salandriagado]

Oh! Meme time!

How about this? There's no school shootings in Japan? Why?
No guns!

I win.

No, as a teacher no. My job is NOT to kill my students. My job is not to try and take down a shooter and leave my students alone and unsupervised. Given campuses, no. Given that I do not WANT my kids scared of me because I might be armed, no. Given I do not want to be a target from someone who thinks that I might HAVE a gun, no. This is an insanely bad idea.

Do you know why japan has no guns?

Its harder to get guns through a ocean/sea than land like the US is with Canada and Mexico, so your saying if you were armed and the school shooter was firing on you you wouldnt fire to injure? I get it you dont want to kill, and neither do I but when push comes to shove I will kill to save the lives of those who cant defend themselves.

There is no such thing as "firing to injure".

I prefer to not have to worry about someone trying. You might know it's difficult, I know that I have students who will give it a go and that's not exactly something that needs to happen in my class thank you very much.

And again, teacher becomes target.

Not to mention trauma/distrust from the kids.

How many students grope your crotch/hip/butt area?

Probably about half of them, depending on the age. Small children grab anything that comes near, and that's at just the right height.

No, THAT is ridiculous.

You think that the kids WON'T know? Honestly? Bull. Rumors are what schools go through.

And please, by all means, let's keep walking those goalposts back. We've gone from arming all teachers to arming a fer teachers, to not being cowboys, to not having them off their person to on their hips to know concealed...

Why, we might as well just not have them there...

How would they know, in what way do you believe children will acquire this knowledge? I suppose children can make stuff up about teachers, but I don't imagine there'll be any degree of accuracy above random chance. I don't see what the spreading of a rumor can do in regards to this. Also, you're mixing arguments, I have never advocated any of those other solutions.

With schools being almost universally uncomfortably hot and the usual dress code for teachers, you'll be wearing a thin shirt, and some tight fitting trousers. Where the fuck are you going to hide it?

Really? This has been changed. -> I know this teacher likes guns. -> This teacher probably has one.

Hell yeah there are ways. Kids are not that fricken dumb. It would make my job a whole lot easier if they were. They are not.

Bullshit. Of course it would, or what is that actual point?! I can JUST imagine that announcement...

"We have an active shooter on campus! This is not a drill...

Uh... By the way, probably not the best time to ask, but did any teacher go through the gun safety course, get their permit, and has their gun at school today? If so, please report to the principal's office..."


Actually they DO record the teacher's medical history, but about the above... none of them can be used to kill people, nor would they be used in an active shooter situation...

To paraphrase Dr. Strangelove, a deterrent is useless unless you announce it.


... Please tell me you didn't just say something that silly.

A concealed weapon isn't a deterrent. therefore it doesn't need to serve as a deterrent. Police officers on campus are a deterrent. (They carry guns by the way, openly visible ones). You have a fundamental lack of understanding in how a concealed weapon functions. No teacher, armed or not, would be going to the principal's office in the event of a shooter, that's painfully ridiculous.

If it's not a deterrent, then it's useless for the purpose proposed.

Secondly, how does a student know what a teacher likes?

Talking to them? Reading their facebook pages? Using the fact that said teacher could actually shoot straight / was the range instructor on a school trip?

And even with that knowledge, how are they going to know the location of the gun for a push and rip? This idea that a policy somehow translates into intimate knowledge of the teacher's carry mechanism is absurd.

Where the fuck do you hide a gun in tight trousers and a thin shirt?

Then why bother having one? If the whole bloody point of having an armed person on campus is to keep the campus safe, you need to know that person is there and who that person is.

If you do not know... they become worthless.

Congratulations, you got the point. Which is also why it is bloody stupid to arm one teacher and hope that in a shooting situation either the shooter stumbles on them OR that they leave their class to go after the shooter.


Let's see, how do students know what the teacher likes? Oh I dunno... TALK to them?

You are really not getting it. The point is that they may TRY to get it. Whether they do or not is almost besides the point. Getting tackled by a kid looking for my gun isn't going to help in the class.

And again, trust, trauma. These points are not going away you know...


Really? 1. Yes, police officers are supposed to shoot people. That's what they're for, and why they are armed. If they weren't supposed to, they wouldn't have guns now would they? 2. Police are also trained FOR shooting people, teachers are not. Concealed carry is not the same training police get in terms of knowing where, when, and how to shoot someone, and then dealing with it later. 3. Police are there to protect (and possibly serve), teachers are there to educate. Do you see a small disconnect between the two job descriptions?

What you said was asinine.

Again, you have missed the idea behind carrying of a concealed weapon, it isn't a deterrent, it's a last resort stop. The entire operation of carrying a concealed weapon is predicated upon the idea that a potential threat does not know you are armed. The armed teacher doesn't serve the purpose of stopping the shooter, the armed teacher serves the purpose of ending the murder spree if it comes to them. They protect themselves, and the children in their immediate vicinity, likely their classroom.

And no, a police officer isn't supposed to shoot someone, an officers weapon serves doubly as a deterrent, and as a weapon of last resort. If a cop is firing shots, shit has already hit the fan. Secondly, if you presume an untrained teacher, then sure. But that's like arguing that semi trucks shouldn't be driven on highways because the average driver isn't qualified. And yes, there is a disconnect between the two descriptions, but a teacher that can both teach, and protect in an emergency is better than one that cannot yes?

The police very much are not fans of officers having to deal with people that they know well, especially not in situations severe enough that shooting might be involved. What on earth makes you think that better than 1% of these armed teachers would actually be able to pull the trigger and kill someone that they know so very well?

Personally, I think every teacher should have a handgun, 12-Gauge or AR under his desk. At the very least, the principle, counselor, receptionist or dean should have a weapon nearby at all times.

Well, that makes it a fuck lot easier for school shooters to get their hands on guns.

[Ifreann]

Violent crime is lower than it has been in decades? Better take drastic measures to PROTECT OUR CHILDREN! Why don't you want OUR CHILDREN to be safe?!

[Telconi]

Do you know why japan has no guns?

Its harder to get guns through a ocean/sea than land like the US is with Canada and Mexico, so your saying if you were armed and the school shooter was firing on you you wouldnt fire to injure? I get it you dont want to kill, and neither do I but when push comes to shove I will kill to save the lives of those who cant defend themselves.

There is no such thing as "firing to injure".

How many students grope your crotch/hip/butt area?

Probably about half of them, depending on the age. Small children grab anything that comes near, and that's at just the right height.

How would they know, in what way do you believe children will acquire this knowledge? I suppose children can make stuff up about teachers, but I don't imagine there'll be any degree of accuracy above random chance. I don't see what the spreading of a rumor can do in regards to this. Also, you're mixing arguments, I have never advocated any of those other solutions.

With schools being almost universally uncomfortably hot and the usual dress code for teachers, you'll be wearing a thin shirt, and some tight fitting trousers. Where the fuck are you going to hide it?

A concealed weapon isn't a deterrent. therefore it doesn't need to serve as a deterrent. Police officers on campus are a deterrent. (They carry guns by the way, openly visible ones). You have a fundamental lack of understanding in how a concealed weapon functions. No teacher, armed or not, would be going to the principal's office in the event of a shooter, that's painfully ridiculous.

If it's not a deterrent, then it's useless for the purpose proposed.

Secondly, how does a student know what a teacher likes?

Talking to them? Reading their facebook pages? Using the fact that said teacher could actually shoot straight / was the range instructor on a school trip?

And even with that knowledge, how are they going to know the location of the gun for a push and rip? This idea that a policy somehow translates into intimate knowledge of the teacher's carry mechanism is absurd.

Where the fuck do you hide a gun in tight trousers and a thin shirt?

Again, you have missed the idea behind carrying of a concealed weapon, it isn't a deterrent, it's a last resort stop. The entire operation of carrying a concealed weapon is predicated upon the idea that a potential threat does not know you are armed. The armed teacher doesn't serve the purpose of stopping the shooter, the armed teacher serves the purpose of ending the murder spree if it comes to them. They protect themselves, and the children in their immediate vicinity, likely their classroom.

And no, a police officer isn't supposed to shoot someone, an officers weapon serves doubly as a deterrent, and as a weapon of last resort. If a cop is firing shots, shit has already hit the fan. Secondly, if you presume an untrained teacher, then sure. But that's like arguing that semi trucks shouldn't be driven on highways because the average driver isn't qualified. And yes, there is a disconnect between the two descriptions, but a teacher that can both teach, and protect in an emergency is better than one that cannot yes?

The police very much are not fans of officers having to deal with people that they know well, especially not in situations severe enough that shooting might be involved. What on earth makes you think that better than 1% of these armed teachers would actually be able to pull the trigger and kill someone that they know so very well?

Personally, I think every teacher should have a handgun, 12-Gauge or AR under his desk. At the very least, the principle, counselor, receptionist or dean should have a weapon nearby at all times.

Well, that makes it a fuck lot easier for school shooters to get their hands on guns.

Please, tell me how an emergency measure used to protect lives is useless unless it deters the situation? Fire trucks don't prevent fires. Ambulances don't prevent car crashes. Hospitals don't prevent heart attacks. Yet these things are all useful are they not?

[Salandriagado]

There is no such thing as "firing to injure".



Probably about half of them, depending on the age. Small children grab anything that comes near, and that's at just the right height.



With schools being almost universally uncomfortably hot and the usual dress code for teachers, you'll be wearing a thin shirt, and some tight fitting trousers. Where the fuck are you going to hide it?



If it's not a deterrent, then it's useless for the purpose proposed.



Talking to them? Reading their facebook pages? Using the fact that said teacher could actually shoot straight / was the range instructor on a school trip?



Where the fuck do you hide a gun in tight trousers and a thin shirt?



The police very much are not fans of officers having to deal with people that they know well, especially not in situations severe enough that shooting might be involved. What on earth makes you think that better than 1% of these armed teachers would actually be able to pull the trigger and kill someone that they know so very well?



Well, that makes it a fuck lot easier for school shooters to get their hands on guns.

Please, tell me how an emergency measure used to protect lives is useless unless it deters the situation? Fire trucks don't prevent fires. Ambulances don't prevent car crashes. Hospitals don't prevent heart attacks. Yet these things are all useful are they not?

Read the thread. The stated use was as a deterrent. Now, are you going to actually address any of the above points?

[Telconi]

Please, tell me how an emergency measure used to protect lives is useless unless it deters the situation? Fire trucks don't prevent fires. Ambulances don't prevent car crashes. Hospitals don't prevent heart attacks. Yet these things are all useful are they not?

Read the thread. The stated use was as a deterrent. Now, are you going to actually address any of the above points?

No it wasn't...

Wear different clothes. Don't tell kids you have a gun. Stop being Facebook friends with students. And presumably the six year old students who regularly are in physical contact aren't the ones generally considered a mass shooting risk. I'm not aware of any student shooters at any primary school. So let me clarify, do high school or even junior high school students regularly touch the hip/crotch/butt areas of their teacher?

[Salandriagado]

Read the thread. The stated use was as a deterrent. Now, are you going to actually address any of the above points?

No it wasn't...

Wear different clothes.

In which case:
(a) you'll be far too fucking hot the whole time; and
(b) it'll be really fucking obvious that you're concealing a gun.

Don't tell kids you have a gun. Stop being Facebook friends with students.

You have a very strange idea of how Facebook works that does not match reality.

And presumably the six year old students who regularly are in physical contact aren't the ones generally considered a mass shooting risk. I'm not aware of any student shooters at any primary school.

They are, however, very likely to set a gun off accidentally.

So let me clarify, do high school or even junior high school students regularly touch the hip/crotch/butt areas of their teacher?

More often than you'd think.