The Berkeley Incident and Free Speech

[Daeseong]

The UC police is pretty much on edge about being labelled as brutal. So I think that's why they didn't do much. That being said, I think your friends are misrepresenting how crazy it was.

Yeah. I'm sure some Berkeley Students may have been involved, but given just how many people have access to Berkeley, I think it's unrealistic to assume that all the terrorists? were Cal students.

Maybe they were exaggerating, but I consider it much more likely that they were telling the truth. Particularly because they are on the "right" side of the group.

I was present at the riots. They were certainly exaggerating. Let me put it like that instead.

So either your friend was exaggerating to you for sympathy points, or you're lying about your friend. Granted, people did get attacked, so I suppose if he was wearing MAGA apparel, perhaps I'd believe your story but otherwise I think it's unlikely your friend just got suddenly attacked for helping people into an ambulance. The most left-wing Berkeley students are radical at worst...not psychopathic and murderous.

[Industrialaska]

No matter the source of news, an incident happened last night on the University of California campus at Berkeley. In response to a scheduled talk by Milo Yiannopoulos, crowds assembled to shut down the talk. Not to listen to what Milo was going to say, not to ask him questions after the talk, and certainly not to make sure that people interested in listening to an opinion had a chance to consider other points of view.

As Milo himself has said in the past, if somebody is wrong talk about it. Shine the light on it. But apparently those outside the venue couldn't afford to have any lights shown on opinions they disagree with.

On the other side, the protesting side, they apparently take the Noam Chomsky position; "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” If an opinion is unacceptable, you apparently have license to limit it.

Whatever one's opinion of Milo is, does that opinion really validate the decision to shut down free speech? Especially on a campus meant for higher education?

Is the modern University not the last place where free speech should knuckle under to the rule of the brick? Or is that a dreadfully 20th-century opinion?

I live in a university town, and over the past few years I have lost confidence in the entire higher education system in the United States. From "Trump free rooms" and "Safe spaces" and now this kind of crap, it is my opinion that the only opinion you can trust on a university campus is from the Plant Operations folks. In other words, people who likely didn't graduate from the university in the past 17 years.

I've also noted that while schools have been cutting their skilled trades programs, the higher education counselors have been dispersing the stupid advice of enrolling in college and THEN choosing the career you want to pursue. If I had to give advice to high school students, I would tell them to work for a major railroad, make 30-70K in their first year of work, plus great union benefits, because, on the other hand, there will never be careers in "Marxist economic theory" that pay enough to pay off student debt except for professorships.

[Wallenburg]

No matter the source of news, an incident happened last night on the University of California campus at Berkeley. In response to a scheduled talk by Milo Yiannopoulos, crowds assembled to shut down the talk. Not to listen to what Milo was going to say, not to ask him questions after the talk, and certainly not to make sure that people interested in listening to an opinion had a chance to consider other points of view.

As Milo himself has said in the past, if somebody is wrong talk about it. Shine the light on it. But apparently those outside the venue couldn't afford to have any lights shown on opinions they disagree with.

On the other side, the protesting side, they apparently take the Noam Chomsky position; "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” If an opinion is unacceptable, you apparently have license to limit it.

Whatever one's opinion of Milo is, does that opinion really validate the decision to shut down free speech? Especially on a campus meant for higher education?

Is the modern University not the last place where free speech should knuckle under to the rule of the brick? Or is that a dreadfully 20th-century opinion?

I live in a university town, and over the past few years I have lost confidence in the entire higher education system in the United States. From "Trump free rooms" and "Safe spaces" and now this kind of crap, it is my opinion that the only opinion you can trust on a university campus is from the Plant Operations folks. In other words, people who likely didn't graduate from the university in the past 17 years.

I've also noted that while schools have been cutting their skilled trades programs, the higher education counselors have been dispersing the stupid advice of enrolling in college and THEN choosing the career you want to pursue. If I had to give advice to high school students, I would tell them to work for a major railroad, make 30-70K in their first year of work, plus great union benefits, because, on the other hand, there will never be careers in "Marxist economic theory" that pay enough to pay off student debt except for professorships.

The university you live next to must not have an engineering department.

[Patridam]

I live in a university town, and over the past few years I have lost confidence in the entire higher education system in the United States. From "Trump free rooms" and "Safe spaces" and now this kind of crap, it is my opinion that the only opinion you can trust on a university campus is from the Plant Operations folks. In other words, people who likely didn't graduate from the university in the past 17 years.

I've also noted that while schools have been cutting their skilled trades programs, the higher education counselors have been dispersing the stupid advice of enrolling in college and THEN choosing the career you want to pursue. If I had to give advice to high school students, I would tell them to work for a major railroad, make 30-70K in their first year of work, plus great union benefits, because, on the other hand, there will never be careers in "Marxist economic theory" that pay enough to pay off student debt except for professorships.

The university you live next to must not have an engineering department.

Heh, interesting point. My college is a private college mostly concerned with liberal arts and such, but has a not insignificant engineering department (in which I am studying). The university is overwhelmingly liberal (In the grand scheme of things, not for colleges really) despite being in a conservative part of Pennsylvania. We have guaranteed safe spaces in the library, mandatory gender identity and privilege workshops for RAs and work study students. Every member of staff has had to go through three days of training and has a "safe space certified" sticker on their office door. There are posters strewn everyone encouraging people to switch to our Gender Studies major/minor, as well as our Race Relations and Oppression History minors. I have to stick up posters for school funded events in my hall and what isn't a fundraiser is a seminar or workshop about gender or race (you have no idea how tight lipped a right wing Resident Assistant has to be these days). The university president sent out an email after the travel ban executive order expressing his apologies and distaste for Trump's actions and listing times for "Frustration & Emotion Workshops" for those offended by the law.

Not even the engineering department is sacred. We are the closest thing to conservatism or even sanity on campus. About 70% of us are white, with like 2 female engineers in a given grade (but they're so entrenched in with the guys the difference is null) and overwhelmingly conservative. The rest are exchange/visa students from Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. and they stay isolated from the white engineering students, not sure of their politics. The engineering professors are mostly conservative but don't bring it up, although they were there in the engineering lounge alongside everyone else cheering on November 8th. There are of course the exceptions - one Iranian born engineering professor begged us to vote for Hillary - but most of them, even the Korean and Indian profs, were/are pro Trump. The engineering department is like a little math obssessed conservative island in a sea of leftism.

[Brkelgarozed]

Most Universities are Cultural Marxist Training Camps and are hostile places for Any ideas they do not like and if confronted with different ideas they yell,riot and attack people with different ideas.

[Vassenor]

Most Universities are Cultural Marxist Training Camps and are hostile places for Any ideas they do not like and if confronted with different ideas they yell,riot and attack people with different ideas.

>thinking cultural marxism is a thing

#kek

[Ergoth I]

again bottom line is Milo has a right to speak, people have a right to listen. People have a right to protest him speaking. But no one has a right to remove/prevent anyone from speaking/listening/protesting.

[The Lone Alliance]

That's an awfully counterintuitive way to protest someone, by giving them money and attention.

Of course the riots at Berkely have paved the way for laws (named in Milo's honor) promoting free speech on college campuses, so if the leftists/antifar want to continue shooting themselves in the foot who am I to stop them.

Tell that to all the offended snowflakes buying Harry Potter books just to burn them because JKR said anti-Trump things on Twitter.

That's far less harmful than rioting... I mean after all it's a form of protest that actually GIVES the person you're protesting money.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

That's an awfully counterintuitive way to protest someone, by giving them money and attention.

Of course the riots at Berkely have paved the way for laws (named in Milo's honor) promoting free speech on college campuses, so if the leftists/antifar want to continue shooting themselves in the foot who am I to stop them.

Tell that to all the offended snowflakes buying Harry Potter books just to burn them because JKR said anti-Trump things on Twitter.

Between violence and taboo protesting, I choose taboo protesting.

[Ergoth I]

That's an awfully counterintuitive way to protest someone, by giving them money and attention.

Of course the riots at Berkely have paved the way for laws (named in Milo's honor) promoting free speech on college campuses, so if the leftists/antifar want to continue shooting themselves in the foot who am I to stop them.

Tell that to all the offended snowflakes buying Harry Potter books just to burn them because JKR said anti-Trump things on Twitter.

its a counter intuitive way to protest but its not going to get any laws passed prohibiting them doing it nor does it infringe on anyone else rights the way preventing people from going to a speech does.

[Wallenburg]

The university you live next to must not have an engineering department.

Heh, interesting point. My college is a private college mostly concerned with liberal arts and such, but has a not insignificant engineering department (in which I am studying). The university is overwhelmingly liberal (In the grand scheme of things, not for colleges really) despite being in a conservative part of Pennsylvania. We have guaranteed safe spaces in the library, mandatory gender identity and privilege workshops for RAs and work study students. Every member of staff has had to go through three days of training and has a "safe space certified" sticker on their office door. There are posters strewn everyone encouraging people to switch to our Gender Studies major/minor, as well as our Race Relations and Oppression History minors. I have to stick up posters for school funded events in my hall and what isn't a fundraiser is a seminar or workshop about gender or race (you have no idea how tight lipped a right wing Resident Assistant has to be these days). The university president sent out an email after the travel ban executive order expressing his apologies and distaste for Trump's actions and listing times for "Frustration & Emotion Workshops" for those offended by the law.

Not even the engineering department is sacred. We are the closest thing to conservatism or even sanity on campus. About 70% of us are white, with like 2 female engineers in a given grade (but they're so entrenched in with the guys the difference is null) and overwhelmingly conservative. The rest are exchange/visa students from Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. and they stay isolated from the white engineering students, not sure of their politics. The engineering professors are mostly conservative but don't bring it up, although they were there in the engineering lounge alongside everyone else cheering on November 8th. There are of course the exceptions - one Iranian born engineering professor begged us to vote for Hillary - but most of them, even the Korean and Indian profs, were/are pro Trump. The engineering department is like a little math obssessed conservative island in a sea of leftism.

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you. I haven't even visited any universities that remotely resemble that.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Remember, if you cut out a mans tongue, you're not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world you fear what they have to say.

[Daeseong]

Most Universities are Cultural Marxist Training Camps and are hostile places for Any ideas they do not like and if confronted with different ideas they yell,riot and attack people with different ideas.

oops I thought I was just getting a city planning degree...

uh oh.

[Patridam]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you. I haven't even visited any universities that remotely resemble that.

So, you haven't visited any universities? Or any non-religiously-affiliated universities, at least? Damn you and your fake apology if you've just decided my life is invalid because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

Look, this is what the door to the staircase in my dorm looks like right now.

All of the posters have to be on the doors because its an old building and the walls sweat, so if you put tape on the walls the stuff just falls off in a few hours

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you. I haven't even visited any universities that remotely resemble that.

So, you haven't visited any universities? Or any non-religiously-affiliated universities, at least? Damn you and your fake apology if you've just decided my life is invalid because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

Look, this is what the door to the staircase in my dorm looks like right now.

All of the posters have to be on the doors because its an old building and the walls sweat, so if you put tape on the walls the stuff just falls off in a few hours

Wait, they have a hotline for loneliness and homesickness at your school?

[Patridam]

So, you haven't visited any universities? Or any non-religiously-affiliated universities, at least? Damn you and your fake apology if you've just decided my life is invalid because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

Look, this is what the door to the staircase in my dorm looks like right now.

All of the posters have to be on the doors because its an old building and the walls sweat, so if you put tape on the walls the stuff just falls off in a few hours

Wait, they have a hotline for loneliness and homesickness at your school?

Way to focus on the one poster out of five that isn't espousing social justice/intersectional politics.

But they do, even though it's crap. There's only ever one person manning the phone at a time on the emotion hotline, even though the diversity office has 7 full time staff members.

[Galloism]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you. I haven't even visited any universities that remotely resemble that.

So, you haven't visited any universities? Or any non-religiously-affiliated universities, at least? Damn you and your fake apology if you've just decided my life is invalid because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

Look, this is what the door to the staircase in my dorm looks like right now.

All of the posters have to be on the doors because its an old building and the walls sweat, so if you put tape on the walls the stuff just falls off in a few hours

Other than the gender normative "men can stop rape" thing, I guess I don't really see the problem.

In fact, that bottom one looks like an interesting movie. I might have to see that.

[Wallenburg]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you. I haven't even visited any universities that remotely resemble that.

So, you haven't visited any universities? Or any non-religiously-affiliated universities, at least? Damn you and your fake apology if you've just decided my life is invalid because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

I've been to about a dozen, public and private, and nothing you described even begins to describe what I have seen.

Look, this is what the door to the staircase in my dorm looks like right now.

All of the posters have to be on the doors because its an old building and the walls sweat, so if you put tape on the walls the stuff just falls off in a few hours

I don't see the problem here. This is not what you described. This is a photo of a couple movie posters, a counseling service, a literature event, and an anti-rape poster. Of all of them, the last one is the only questionable one, only on the basis that, without any context to work with, it may suggest that female rape of men is not an issue.

[Wallenburg]

Most Universities are Cultural Marxist Training Camps and are hostile places for Any ideas they do not like and if confronted with different ideas they yell,riot and attack people with different ideas.

oops I thought I was just getting a city planning degree...

uh oh.

You've been bamboozled!

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So, you haven't visited any universities? Or any non-religiously-affiliated universities, at least? Damn you and your fake apology if you've just decided my life is invalid because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

Look, this is what the door to the staircase in my dorm looks like right now.

All of the posters have to be on the doors because its an old building and the walls sweat, so if you put tape on the walls the stuff just falls off in a few hours

Wait, they have a hotline for loneliness and homesickness at your school?

...you are aware that college suicides are pretty big problem right?

[Patridam]

So, you haven't visited any universities? Or any non-religiously-affiliated universities, at least? Damn you and your fake apology if you've just decided my life is invalid because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

Look, this is what the door to the staircase in my dorm looks like right now.

All of the posters have to be on the doors because its an old building and the walls sweat, so if you put tape on the walls the stuff just falls off in a few hours

Other than the gender normative "men can stop rape" thing, I guess I don't really see the problem.

In fact, that bottom one looks like an interesting movie. I might have to see that.

We have "ONLY MEN CAN STOP RAPE" (because women should never ever try to defend themselves)
Then we have a seminar (required by all history classes) about Double Consciousness and privilege and the experience of people of color in this ebul white society.
Then we have a screening of a movie that overplays the role in of three black females in a historical event and belittles the role of literally thousands of white men (and of course has a leftist message to deliver with it).
And of course we have a screening of a "journey through the revolution of gender identity" (mandatory for RAs) as narrated by a leftist politician that supports gender fluidity within the womb and letting SJW's forcibly make their children transgender.

Can we at least say I'm not lying about what my university is like?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Wait, they have a hotline for loneliness and homesickness at your school?

...you are aware that college suicides are pretty big problem right?

Sure. At the same time, not even my college had a hotline for loneliness and homesickness.

Then again I graduated from my Bachelor's degree 5 years ago.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Wait, they have a hotline for loneliness and homesickness at your school?

Way to focus on the one poster out of five that isn't espousing social justice/intersectional politics.

But they do, even though it's crap. There's only ever one person manning the phone at a time on the emotion hotline, even though the diversity office has 7 full time staff members.

What can I say, I'm that weird guy.

Huh, well, that's interesting. You'd think they'd man more people.

[Galloism]

We have "ONLY MEN CAN STOP RAPE" (because women should never ever try to defend themselves)

If that was the problem with that you settled on, you might want to do some more research.

Then we have a seminar (required by all history classes) about Double Consciousness and privilege and the experience of people of color in this ebul white society.

Yeah, I doubt it is as you've described, but that's not on the door anyway.

Then we have a screening of a movie that overplays the role in of three black females in a historical event and belittles the role of literally thousands of white men (and of course has a leftist message to deliver with it).

I haven't seen the film, but I think most everyone knows that lots and lots of white men were involved in NASA.

And of course we have a screening of a "journey through the revolution of gender identity" (mandatory for RAs) as narrated by a leftist politician that supports gender fluidity within the womb and letting SJW's forcibly make their children transgender.

Once again, I doubt it's as you've described. It seems pretty innocuous - and voluntary, given they said you were invited, not "required to attend".

Can we at least say I'm not lying about what my university is like?

No.

[Liriena]

Remember, if you cut out a mans tongue, you're not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world you fear what they have to say.

If you're going to use a quote by somebody else as some sort of argument, you should at least consider crediting the original author.

Also, Yiannopoulos' tongue wasn't cut out.