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The Berkeley Incident and Free Speech

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Kaiserholt
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The Berkeley Incident and Free Speech

Postby Kaiserholt » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:19 am

No matter the source of news, an incident happened last night on the University of California campus at Berkeley. In response to a scheduled talk by Milo Yiannopoulos, crowds assembled to shut down the talk. Not to listen to what Milo was going to say, not to ask him questions after the talk, and certainly not to make sure that people interested in listening to an opinion had a chance to consider other points of view.

As Milo himself has said in the past, if somebody is wrong talk about it. Shine the light on it. But apparently those outside the venue couldn't afford to have any lights shown on opinions they disagree with.

On the other side, the protesting side, they apparently take the Noam Chomsky position; "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” If an opinion is unacceptable, you apparently have license to limit it.

Whatever one's opinion of Milo is, does that opinion really validate the decision to shut down free speech? Especially on a campus meant for higher education?

Is the modern University not the last place where free speech should knuckle under to the rule of the brick? Or is that a dreadfully 20th-century opinion?
Last edited by Kaiserholt on Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:21 am

Poor Milo. The university really should have provided him with some kind of space that is safe from this kind of interference.

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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:22 am

While i disagree with rioting and smashing nearby coffee places....
A line has to be drawn on what is acceptable(At least in public plaforms) and a person who goes afters students and advocates harassment of them has crossed that line.
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yi ... aukee.html
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Last edited by Uiiop on Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:26 am

Your right to free speech protects you from the government. Just because you want to spew crap, nobody has to listen, or let you have a place to say it.
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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:29 am

Philjia wrote:Your right to free speech protects you from the government. Just because you want to spew crap, nobody has to listen, or let you have a place to say it.

Tbf some people view it as something ought to implemented more than that...so while i kinda agree in this case stating the practical manifestation doesn't show why the idealized version is flawed.
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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:30 am

Uiiop wrote:
Philjia wrote:Your right to free speech protects you from the government. Just because you want to spew crap, nobody has to listen, or let you have a place to say it.

Tbf some people view it as something ought to implemented more than that...so while i kinda agree in this case stating the practical manifestation doesn't show why the idealized version is flawed.


But for it to be otherwise would limit people's right to protest.
Nemesis the Warlock wrote:I am the Nemesis, I am the Warlock, I am the shape of things to come, the Lord of the Flies, holder of the Sword Sinister, the Death Bringer, I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams, I am all these things and many more

⚧ Trans rights. ⚧
Pragmatic ethical utopian socialist, IE I'm for whatever kind of socialism is the most moral and practical. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, generally internationalist, ambivalent on the EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti Marxist. White cishet male.

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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:31 am

Philjia wrote:
Uiiop wrote:Tbf some people view it as something ought to implemented more than that...so while i kinda agree in this case stating the practical manifestation doesn't show why the idealized version is flawed.


But for it to be otherwise would limit people's right to protest.

Elaborate on why this is the case....
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:32 am

Why are people only ever concerned with the right of individuals to preach hate? Is the protest not itself an example of people exercising their own freedom of speech?
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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:32 am

It's remarkable how similar these so-called "anti-fascists" are to the SA...

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Radiatia
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Postby Radiatia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:33 am

Vassenor wrote:Why are people only ever concerned with the right of individuals to preach hate? Is the protest not itself an example of people exercising their own freedom of speech?
\

Peaceful protest is fine and welcome. This wasn't peaceful protest - this was people being violent thugs.

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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:33 am

Uiiop wrote:
Philjia wrote:
But for it to be otherwise would limit people's right to protest.

Elaborate on why this is the case....


The students protesting against Milo were exercising their own right to free speech. What makes Milo's right more important than theirs?
Nemesis the Warlock wrote:I am the Nemesis, I am the Warlock, I am the shape of things to come, the Lord of the Flies, holder of the Sword Sinister, the Death Bringer, I am the one who waits on the edge of your dreams, I am all these things and many more

⚧ Trans rights. ⚧
Pragmatic ethical utopian socialist, IE I'm for whatever kind of socialism is the most moral and practical. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, generally internationalist, ambivalent on the EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti Marxist. White cishet male.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:34 am

Radiatia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Why are people only ever concerned with the right of individuals to preach hate? Is the protest not itself an example of people exercising their own freedom of speech?
\

Peaceful protest is fine and welcome. This wasn't peaceful protest - this was people being violent thugs.


How so?
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:37 am

I do also have to wonder. If this was an Islamist preaching hate against America, would everyone still be defending their right to free speech so slavishly?
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Balochistan and New York
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Postby Balochistan and New York » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:37 am

If Trump gets to say the shit he wants, Milo should to.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:38 am

Balochistan and New York wrote:If Trump gets to say the shit he wants, Milo should to.


And if people get to protest against what the president says, they should here too.
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Saikaya
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Postby Saikaya » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:39 am

Vassenor wrote:
Radiatia wrote:\

Peaceful protest is fine and welcome. This wasn't peaceful protest - this was people being violent thugs.


How so?

The part where they smashed windows and rioted.
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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:39 am

Philjia wrote:
Uiiop wrote:Elaborate on why this is the case....


The students protesting against Milo were exercising their own right to free speech. What makes Milo's right more important than theirs?

They don't....some would allow them to be peaceful but make sure the facility doesn't listen to them.
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Isyrannaea
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Postby Isyrannaea » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:39 am

Vassenor wrote:
Balochistan and New York wrote:If Trump gets to say the shit he wants, Milo should to.


And if people get to protest against what the president says, they should here too.

Except this was a riot, not a protest.
Please ignore my old posts.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:40 am

Isyrannaea wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And if people get to protest against what the president says, they should here too.

Except this was a riot, not a protest.


And this invalidates the principle how?
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Isyrannaea
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Postby Isyrannaea » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:41 am

Vassenor wrote:
Isyrannaea wrote:Except this was a riot, not a protest.


And this invalidates the principle how?

You don't have a right to riot.
Please ignore my old posts.

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:41 am

Saikaya wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
How so?

The part where they smashed windows and rioted.

The problem is differentiating between the peacful protestors and the violent idiots.
You could have thousands of people protesting peacfully, but it only takes one person to start a fire. The thousands shouldn't be penalised for that one idiot.
Last edited by Alvecia on Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:42 am

Radiatia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Why are people only ever concerned with the right of individuals to preach hate? Is the protest not itself an example of people exercising their own freedom of speech?
\

Peaceful protest is fine and welcome. This wasn't peaceful protest - this was people being violent thugs.

People being violent is wrong but do you have proof everyone involved in the protest was like that?
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:42 am

Alvecia wrote:
Saikaya wrote:The part where they smashed windows and rioted.

The problem is differentiating between the peacful protestors and the violent idiots.
You could have thousands of people protesting peacfully, but it only takes one person to start a fire. The thousands shouldn't be penalised for that one idiot.


But it's hard to demonize a movement if you pay attention to what the majority do.
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Hexgard
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Postby Hexgard » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:44 am

Alvecia wrote:Poor Milo. The university really should have provided him with some kind of space that is safe from this kind of interference.


Don't try to spin this around. So called "safe spaces" are tries at making a pocket dimension where counter argument do not exist. In this case, we see a need for protection against violence, not counter arguments.

Vassenor wrote:I do also have to wonder. If this was an Islamist preaching hate against America, would everyone still be defending their right to free speech so slavishly?


False equivalvence. That is outright hatespeech.

Philjia wrote:
Uiiop wrote:Elaborate on why this is the case....


The students protesting against Milo were exercising their own right to free speech. What makes Milo's right more important than theirs?


You do understand there were violent outbreaks in this "protest"?

Vassenor wrote:Why are people only ever concerned with the right of individuals to preach hate? Is the protest not itself an example of people exercising their own freedom of speech?


Milo does not preach hate, so what's your point?

Philjia wrote:Your right to free speech protects you from the government. Just because you want to spew crap, nobody has to listen, or let you have a place to say it.


1. He isn't asking anyone to listen to him, just to not be violent about it. You literally had students threatening others that they will make their names public as "neonazi" sympathisers if they attend a Milo speech at some college (forgot which one)
2. As much as I am aware, Milo had everything agreed with the university, that is, they gave him the place to say it.

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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:45 am

Hexgard wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Why are people only ever concerned with the right of individuals to preach hate? Is the protest not itself an example of people exercising their own freedom of speech?


Milo does not preach hate, so what's your point?

Wrong *Sniff*
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yi ... aukee.html
"I will close with this advice. Never feel bad for mocking a transgender person. It is our job to point out their absurdity, to not make the problem worse by pretending they are normal. Much like fat-shaming, if our mockery drives them to get the help they need, we may save their life. "
#NSTransparency

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