Dylann Roof sentenced to death

[Ifreann]

It would be political suicide to not have him killed. Doubt it would have turned out any other way.

There were politicians on the jury?

This is America. The judge might need to run for re-election.

[Novus America]

According to the laws of the state the death penalty is warranted.
That said I personally would rather we have an actual rehabilitation program and get rid of the death penalty altogether.

Some people cannot be rehabilitated. Certainly he can never be released.

[Mer Salcia]

It would be political suicide to not have him killed. Doubt it would have turned out any other way.

There were politicians on the jury?

No, political suicide is turning your enemy into a hero and a rallying cry for others like him. Which is all that an execution will accomplish.

[Ethel mermania]

There were politicians on the jury?

This is America. The judge might need to run for re-election.

federal, so no

[Ifreann]

According to the laws of the state the death penalty is warranted.
That said I personally would rather we have an actual rehabilitation program and get rid of the death penalty altogether.

Some people cannot be rehabilitated. Certainly he can never be released.

Never's a long time.

[The Althing Confederacy]

The idea that racial politics in the US aren't politics is simply idiotic. The guy wanted to start a race war.

Racism (regardless of where it occurs) doesn't need a political agenda (although it can be backed by one making it more acceptable to some people).

[The Princes of the Universe]

According to the laws of the state the death penalty is warranted.
That said I personally would rather we have an actual rehabilitation program and get rid of the death penalty altogether.

Some people cannot be rehabilitated. Certainly he can never be released.

Yeah, if that bastard ever found his way out of prison, licitly or otherwise, there's no serious doubt he'd do it again and probably try to up the ante.

[Fartsniffage]

According to the laws of the state the death penalty is warranted.
That said I personally would rather we have an actual rehabilitation program and get rid of the death penalty altogether.

Some people cannot be rehabilitated. Certainly he can never be released.

And you're basing that on your decades of experience in rehabilitating prisoners or?

[Salandriagado]

It's not. It's actually more expensive, more risky and you run the potential of accidentally killing the wrong person. Plus, killing doesn't bring back the dead, it just satiates our perverted human desire for social vengeance.

Ehhh...I always hear people say a lethal shot is more expensive than life in prison. How does that work?

True, thats why you rarely use it. And sometimes vengeance is good.

Appeals. Appeals are expensive, and the appeals process for the death penalty is (necessarily) very stringent.

It's not. It's actually more expensive, more risky and you run the potential of accidentally killing the wrong person. Plus, killing doesn't bring back the dead, it just satiates our perverted human desire for social vengeance.

I don't care about the risk, they should have thought of that when they committed the crime. The expense comes from them sitting on death row for decades on end. If we execute them immediately afterwards it wouldn't be very expensive, especially if we don't go though all the hoops to minimize their pain.

The risk is that the person never committed the crime in the first place.

Ever heard of the innocence project?

the death penalty leaves no room for mistakes -- if you fucking execute the wrong person and found out later, there are no do overs or compensation that can be given. The potential of executing an innocent man should be reason enough to abolish the death penalty.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people.

That doesn't mean that we should make them happen more often to more good people. "The world isn't perfect" is not a reason to make it worse.

Though I'd like a statistics on how offensive it is we are executing innocent people, because I don't think it's that high. If one innocent has to die for every 100 assholes than it's worth the cost to me

What is the actual benefit gained by executing quite so many innocent people?

Life sentences are a thing.

So are prisoners escaping and killing people in prison. I do think there should be a higher standard for the death penalty. Beyond a shadow of a doubt rather than beyond a reasonable doubt. While rare, this case is such a case. A mistake here is not possible.

Then the test should be wil he be a threat to other inmates or guards? Is he an escape risk?
If he is then hang him (not advocating death, just stating what I think the test for the death penalty should be, I am not sure how a judge would rule on the last part in this case).

In a supermax facility, nobody is a threat to anybody, or a realistic escape risk. Fucking hard to be a threat to people when you're locked alone in a tiny room all day.

What game? The consequence of shortening the process to 5 years is that the innocent will die, and that one of your relatives, or even you might be that innocent.

Well the solution is the legal standard for the orginal conviction. Beyond a reasonable doubt still leaves a possibility of mistake. For death penalty it should be beyond a shadow of a doubt. Which is really hard to prove.

This case meets the standard. If there is any possible doubt the death penalty should not be available.

"Beyond a shadow of doubt" still leaves a non-zero probability of making a mistake. Because literally every decision making process that involves, at any point in it, a human or something made by humans has such a failure probability.

The thing about Government policy is that it has to be applied broadly and equally.

Killing this cocksucker won't end terrorism or racism. He's a scumbag, but the cost of the death penalty transcends this one crime.

I never claimed that it would. Damn the cost

What, exactly, is the material benefit that you expect to gain from this cost?

Or go to classic techniques - hanging, firing squad, the good ole' French guillotine...

Dropped from a helicopter is another choice

People have, by freak accident, survived some utterly ridiculous drops. Killing people in the name of justice is moronic, but if you really must do it, at least do it by a method that doesn't carry the risk of accidentally letting them escape.

[The Realm of Lordaeron]

Ehhh...I always hear people say a lethal shot is more expensive than life in prison. How does that work?

True, thats why you rarely use it. And sometimes vengeance is good.

Appeals. Appeals are expensive, and the appeals process for the death penalty is (necessarily) very stringent.

I don't care about the risk, they should have thought of that when they committed the crime. The expense comes from them sitting on death row for decades on end. If we execute them immediately afterwards it wouldn't be very expensive, especially if we don't go though all the hoops to minimize their pain.

The risk is that the person never committed the crime in the first place.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people.

That doesn't mean that we should make them happen more often to more good people. "The world isn't perfect" is not a reason to make it worse.

Though I'd like a statistics on how offensive it is we are executing innocent people, because I don't think it's that high. If one innocent has to die for every 100 assholes than it's worth the cost to me

What is the actual benefit gained by executing quite so many innocent people?

So are prisoners escaping and killing people in prison. I do think there should be a higher standard for the death penalty. Beyond a shadow of a doubt rather than beyond a reasonable doubt. While rare, this case is such a case. A mistake here is not possible.

Then the test should be wil he be a threat to other inmates or guards? Is he an escape risk?
If he is then hang him (not advocating death, just stating what I think the test for the death penalty should be, I am not sure how a judge would rule on the last part in this case).

In a supermax facility, nobody is a threat to anybody, or a realistic escape risk. Fucking hard to be a threat to people when you're locked alone in a tiny room all day.

Well the solution is the legal standard for the orginal conviction. Beyond a reasonable doubt still leaves a possibility of mistake. For death penalty it should be beyond a shadow of a doubt. Which is really hard to prove.

This case meets the standard. If there is any possible doubt the death penalty should not be available.

"Beyond a shadow of doubt" still leaves a non-zero probability of making a mistake. Because literally every decision making process that involves, at any point in it, a human or something made by humans has such a failure probability.

I never claimed that it would. Damn the cost

What, exactly, is the material benefit that you expect to gain from this cost?

Dropped from a helicopter is another choice

People have, by freak accident, survived some utterly ridiculous drops. Killing people in the name of justice is moronic, but if you really must do it, at least do it by a method that doesn't carry the risk of accidentally letting them escape.

Or doesn't result in survival but incredibly grave injury that would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment.

[Feriq]

It would be political suicide to not have him killed. Doubt it would have turned out any other way.

There were politicians on the jury?

I mean, I don't think you can honestly believe the jury was not pressured to go all the way. 25% of the city is black, if he was not put to death there were going to be bigger issues.

[Fartsniffage]

There were politicians on the jury?

I mean, I don't think you can honestly believe the jury was not pressured to go all the way. 25% of the city is black, if he was not put to death there were going to be bigger issues.

My, whatever do you mean?

[Great Minarchistan]

A sadistic alternative would be to sentence him by 15 years for every accusation (33 in this case), so he would need to take 33 paroles to get out of prison. Behave like a saint to get freed would take... 30 years?

I am not a perpetual prison fan though. It is better for us and for him to take the death penalty. After all, get locked in a prison for 30+ years doesn't seem any better (nor it is for prison's budget).

[Salandriagado]

A sadistic alternative would be to sentence him by 15 years for every accusation (33 in this case), so he would need to take 33 paroles to get out of prison. Behave like a saint to get freed would take... 30 years?

I am not a perpetual prison fan though. It is better for us and for him to take the death penalty. After all, get locked in a prison for 30+ years doesn't seem any better (nor it is for prison's budget).

You realise that this is more expensive than life imprisonment, right?

[Great Minarchistan]

A sadistic alternative would be to sentence him by 15 years for every accusation (33 in this case), so he would need to take 33 paroles to get out of prison. Behave like a saint to get freed would take... 30 years?

I am not a perpetual prison fan though. It is better for us and for him to take the death penalty. After all, get locked in a prison for 30+ years doesn't seem any better (nor it is for prison's budget).

You realise that this is more expensive than life imprisonment, right?

Then just throw his body to hungry watchdogs. You save food and get rid of a scumbag.

[Farnhamia]

You realise that this is more expensive than life imprisonment, right?

Then just throw his body to hungry watchdogs. You save food and get rid of a scumbag.

*** Warned for trolling. *** Maybe you should have read a little bit of the thread, you might have noticed me saying that there will be no stupid suggestions on what should be done to Dylann Roof.

[Kaboomlandia]

The only thing bad about him being sentenced to death is that he'll be in solitary confinement and able to cost millions in appeals. Life would be cheaper.

Then they still have to spend money on feeding him and paying for his imprisonment.

[Oldenfranck]

It is a step in the right direction of ridding the world of this evil man ASAP, but in reality when the judge sentences him tommorow, he is going to be rotting on death row for the next twenty years now...

[Kaboomlandia]

It is a step in the right direction of ridding the world of this evil man ASAP, but in reality when the judge sentences him tommorow, he is going to be rotting on death row for the next twenty years now...

Speaking of which...how long have we been stuck with Tsarnaev's appeals for?

[Oldenfranck]

It is a step in the right direction of ridding the world of this evil man ASAP, but in reality when the judge sentences him tommorow, he is going to be rotting on death row for the next twenty years now...

Speaking of which...how long have we been stuck with Tsarnaev's appeals for?

Too long...

[Kaboomlandia]

I think we all saw this coming when Roof wanted to represent himself. Not sure what he thought was going to happen.

[Mount-Kilimanjaro]

I think we all saw this coming when Roof wanted to represent himself. Not sure what he thought was going to happen.

He wanted more attention. He'll get it in the Appeals courts before he finally goes to Hell.

[Vallermoore]

He totally deserves to be executed.

[Dayton]

I think we all saw this coming when Roof wanted to represent himself. Not sure what he thought was going to happen.

Maybe to prove a point? Perhaps he knew he was boned so he chose to not waste the money on a professional lawyer(?).

[Brkelgarozed]

The Dallas shooter was a member of the BLM movement.

Its not really an organized movement.

BLM fueled anti cop and anti white propaganda that Radicalized him.