The Fall of Empires [OOC/Alt-History/Open]

[Monarchy of Japanada]

Well, too bad, because you can'y give proof that you a bigger military in those sectors. South Korea isn't building up its military as much as it could if North Korea annexed it, so theres that.

South Korea's military has tech from the 2010s. North Korea's tech is from the 1980s. Manpower be damned, the South could overrun the North before the US even got there.

China and SU were helping, and America suffered major losses there.

[Holoska]

South Korea's military has tech from the 2010s. North Korea's tech is from the 1980s. Manpower be damned, the South could overrun the North before the US even got there.

China and SU were helping, and America suffered major losses there.

Apparently so did the USSR and China, since they appear to have balkanized.

[Holoska]

What should I post about next?

[Republic Of Varra]

My point still stands that this is an alternate history, there wasn't a rapid military build up in current Japan, as opposed to this alternate history Japan. Your evidence using real life stats from Global Firepower is invalid.

Well, too bad, because you can'y give proof that you a bigger military in those sectors. South Korea isn't building up its military as much as it could if North Korea annexed it, so theres that.

Too bad? What kind of argument is that? This is an alternate history. Military build up can be quite different. Japan took the aircraft and naval vessels from their past captors, and have built up immensely from there. Japan also has a much more stable and capable economy than Korea, since it is still pulled down by North Korea immensely. So, I can very much accept you have a large advantage on the ground, but I cannot in Naval and Air capabilities, since you wouldn't be able to create, and have the funds to make crafts as fast as Japan. Japan has a larger workforce, economic, and industrial sector to boot than Korea.

[Monarchy of Japanada]

Well, too bad, because you can'y give proof that you a bigger military in those sectors. South Korea isn't building up its military as much as it could if North Korea annexed it, so theres that.

Too bad? What kind of argument is that? This is an alternate history. Military build up can be quite different. Japan took the aircraft and naval vessels from their past captors, and have built up immensely from there. Japan also has a much more stable and capable economy than Korea, since it is still pulled down by North Korea immensely. So, I can very much accept you have a large advantage on the ground, but I cannot in Naval and Air capabilities, since you wouldn't be able to create, and have the funds to make crafts as fast as Japan. Japan has a larger workforce, economic, and industrial sector to boot than Korea.

Than I guess we're going to have two sides to this story, but I'm not accepting anything you say about this.

[Halium]

Well, too bad, because you can'y give proof that you a bigger military in those sectors. South Korea isn't building up its military as much as it could if North Korea annexed it, so theres that.

Too bad? What kind of argument is that? This is an alternate history. Military build up can be quite different. Japan took the aircraft and naval vessels from their past captors, and have built up immensely from there. Japan also has a much more stable and capable economy than Korea, since it is still pulled down by North Korea immensely. So, I can very much accept you have a large advantage on the ground, but I cannot in Naval and Air capabilities, since you wouldn't be able to create, and have the funds to make crafts as fast as Japan. Japan has a larger workforce, economic, and industrial sector to boot than Korea.

Was this a bad time to try and reserve something?

[Republic Of Varra]

viewtopic.php?p=30811031&sid=a05f53878fc01d1497015767722f542c#p30811031

Oh your godmodding now. "That country could fall in a month." "Oh, lol, we both have the most powerful countries in Asia, lol." "lol, we have literally the most powerful military in Asia before anyone agreed to it, lol." "Oh, we're better than Japan and Taiwan at everything, lol."

Well, instead of negotiating, you've resorted to Godmodding in the IC forum. Congratulations. I thought we could negotiate out something, but you instead have plugged your ears with your fingers and done something against the rules. I advise editing the post before you're kicked from the RP.

[Skogarstrond]

Also, I don't think that Red China was technically capable enough to dabble in virus technology. Maybe just change it to China and USSR

*Technologically

Formal Nation Name: United Socialist Repiblics Of Scandinavia (USROS)
Informal Nation Name: Scandinavia, USROS
National Flag: http://orig07.deviantart.net/8299/f/201 ... 6rd1k5.png
Economy Type: Socialist
Government Type: Socialist Autocracy
Head of State: Gustav Kalmar
Map: http://imgur.com/a/QSIZI
Population: 34,110,000
Military Population: 682,000
History of Nation: During WWI, a recently united Scaninavian nation was pulled into the fray on behalf of the central powers. However, dispite thier inclusion, they where also subject to the devestaing loss of our timeline, and both the harsh treaty and the great depression left them in a similar situation as the Wiemar Republic. Perhaps this is why the message of the Fuher resonated with them, as rather than remaining neutral, they allied with the Axis powers. Yet, they again suffered militay loss, but this time at a much greater cost.

The occcupation by the Soviets changed the country drastically, overnight they went from a hopeful empire, to the Soviet's lapdog. However, not all changes were bad for Scandinavia, thier positioning funneled Soviet industries into the area, surging new life into the frozen land. This economic recovery led to a large pro-socialist population. However, thier peace would come to an end, when the Third World War entered Scandinavian soil.

When the dust finally cleared, the Scandinavians where alone once again, but the where still united, and refused to give up hope. Their industrial programs, taking a page out of Stalin's five year plans, revitalized the heart of the country. Thier claim on former Russian territories were accepted internationally, and even now they are rising to be a great power on the world stage.

I'm sorry if I haven't made this clear, my bad, but no alterations to history until 1945/1944

(Image)

Did that guy who reserved Germany follow up?

Not yet but he has until I wake up on Friday to follow up on it.

Rule, Americae.

Formal Nation Name: United Republic of the Atlantic
Informal Nation Name: Atlantinia
National Flag: Republic above all
Economy: Capitalist
Government: Federal Fascist Republic
Head of State: President Jarvis Redmond appearance
Map: Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennesse, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, Washington D.C, Pensilvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Bermudas.
Population: 28.228.000
Military Population: 1.400.000
History of Nation: After the Fall of the US, the East coast was still calling itself the United States, but it was extremely unstable nation, the defeat in the Florida Independence War (1995-1996), Two coup d'etats (one supported by the Great lakes) and the extreme economic crisis (the Fried chicken can cost $250) provoke that the people elected Jarvis Redmond in the 1998, candidate to the presidency of the PPU party ("Progress, Peace, Union"), After of extreme reforms, the United Republic of the Atlantic is formed, today "Atlantinia" is self sufficient nation.

I am so sorry man, this is completely my bad but I didn't realize until too late that when you reserved the East Coast, half of it had already been reserved by Franco-Iberie who reserved the CSA. Again, my bad.

Can I reserve Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah?

Reserved

My point still stands that this is an alternate history, there wasn't a rapid military build up in current Japan, as opposed to this alternate history Japan. Your evidence using real life stats from Global Firepower is invalid.

Well, too bad, because you can'y give proof that you a bigger military in those sectors. South Korea isn't building up its military as much as it could if North Korea annexed it, so theres that.

It's about time I step in and settle this. GFP is null due to this being an alternate timeline. Korea gets an enormous edge in land combat, such as tanks, due to them being a mainland country and recently fighting a land war. (By recently I mean the Korean War). Japan gets a large edge in naval warfare due to them being an island nation. In terms of aerial combat you are both fairly equal but Japan has the slight edge of being able to use USSR planes AND American planes whilst Korea mainly just got theres from te USSR. In terms of troop count Japan has the edge by almost an extra 200,000. 1.67 million (Japan) vs 1.48 million (Korea)

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=30811031&sid=a05f53878fc01d1497015767722f542c#p30811031

Oh your godmodding now. "That country could fall in a month." "Oh, lol, we both have the most powerful countries in Asia, lol." "lol, we have literally the most powerful military in Asia before anyone agreed to it, lol." "Oh, we're better than Japan and Taiwan at everything, lol."

Well, instead of negotiating, you've resorted to Godmodding in the IC forum. Congratulations. I thought we could negotiate out something, but you instead have plugged your ears with your fingers and done something against the rules. I advise editing the post before you're kicked from the RP.

I just got back from lunch so I have not read the post yet but I will deal with situations of godmodding and this is not for you to decide.

[Skogarstrond]

I also find it important to mention that I was confusing the ROC with the PROC but my statement about Vietnam still stands.

[Monarchy of Japanada]

Also, I don't think that Red China was technically capable enough to dabble in virus technology. Maybe just change it to China and USSR

*Technologically

Formal Nation Name: United Socialist Repiblics Of Scandinavia (USROS)
Informal Nation Name: Scandinavia, USROS
National Flag: http://orig07.deviantart.net/8299/f/201 ... 6rd1k5.png
Economy Type: Socialist
Government Type: Socialist Autocracy
Head of State: Gustav Kalmar
Map: http://imgur.com/a/QSIZI
Population: 34,110,000
Military Population: 682,000
History of Nation: During WWI, a recently united Scaninavian nation was pulled into the fray on behalf of the central powers. However, dispite thier inclusion, they where also subject to the devestaing loss of our timeline, and both the harsh treaty and the great depression left them in a similar situation as the Wiemar Republic. Perhaps this is why the message of the Fuher resonated with them, as rather than remaining neutral, they allied with the Axis powers. Yet, they again suffered militay loss, but this time at a much greater cost.

The occcupation by the Soviets changed the country drastically, overnight they went from a hopeful empire, to the Soviet's lapdog. However, not all changes were bad for Scandinavia, thier positioning funneled Soviet industries into the area, surging new life into the frozen land. This economic recovery led to a large pro-socialist population. However, thier peace would come to an end, when the Third World War entered Scandinavian soil.

When the dust finally cleared, the Scandinavians where alone once again, but the where still united, and refused to give up hope. Their industrial programs, taking a page out of Stalin's five year plans, revitalized the heart of the country. Thier claim on former Russian territories were accepted internationally, and even now they are rising to be a great power on the world stage.

I'm sorry if I haven't made this clear, my bad, but no alterations to history until 1945/1944

(Image)

Did that guy who reserved Germany follow up?

Not yet but he has until I wake up on Friday to follow up on it.

Rule, Americae.

Formal Nation Name: United Republic of the Atlantic
Informal Nation Name: Atlantinia
National Flag: Republic above all
Economy: Capitalist
Government: Federal Fascist Republic
Head of State: President Jarvis Redmond appearance
Map: Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennesse, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, Washington D.C, Pensilvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Bermudas.
Population: 28.228.000
Military Population: 1.400.000
History of Nation: After the Fall of the US, the East coast was still calling itself the United States, but it was extremely unstable nation, the defeat in the Florida Independence War (1995-1996), Two coup d'etats (one supported by the Great lakes) and the extreme economic crisis (the Fried chicken can cost $250) provoke that the people elected Jarvis Redmond in the 1998, candidate to the presidency of the PPU party ("Progress, Peace, Union"), After of extreme reforms, the United Republic of the Atlantic is formed, today "Atlantinia" is self sufficient nation.

I am so sorry man, this is completely my bad but I didn't realize until too late that when you reserved the East Coast, half of it had already been reserved by Franco-Iberie who reserved the CSA. Again, my bad.

Can I reserve Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah?

Reserved

Well, too bad, because you can'y give proof that you a bigger military in those sectors. South Korea isn't building up its military as much as it could if North Korea annexed it, so theres that.

It's about time I step in and settle this. GFP is null due to this being an alternate timeline. Korea gets an enormous edge in land combat, such as tanks, due to them being a mainland country and recently fighting a land war. (By recently I mean the Korean War). Japan gets a large edge in naval warfare due to them being an island nation. In terms of aerial combat you are both fairly equal but Japan has the slight edge of being able to use USSR planes AND American planes whilst Korea mainly just got theres from te USSR. In terms of troop count Japan has the edge by almost an extra 200,000. 1.67 million (Japan) vs 1.48 million (Korea)

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=30811031&sid=a05f53878fc01d1497015767722f542c#p30811031

Oh your godmodding now. "That country could fall in a month." "Oh, lol, we both have the most powerful countries in Asia, lol." "lol, we have literally the most powerful military in Asia before anyone agreed to it, lol." "Oh, we're better than Japan and Taiwan at everything, lol."

Well, instead of negotiating, you've resorted to Godmodding in the IC forum. Congratulations. I thought we could negotiate out something, but you instead have plugged your ears with your fingers and done something against the rules. I advise editing the post before you're kicked from the RP.

I just got back from lunch so I have not read the post yet but I will deal with situations of godmodding and this is not for you to decide.

South Korea and North Korea actually has a larger nation IRL, and even if GFP is null, I doubt they could magically surpass us who would have also had a bigger spending on our military as well. Not to mention South Korea builds 41% of the world's ships.

[Skogarstrond]

*Technologically

I'm sorry if I haven't made this clear, my bad, but no alterations to history until 1945/1944

Not yet but he has until I wake up on Friday to follow up on it.

I am so sorry man, this is completely my bad but I didn't realize until too late that when you reserved the East Coast, half of it had already been reserved by Franco-Iberie who reserved the CSA. Again, my bad.

Reserved

It's about time I step in and settle this. GFP is null due to this being an alternate timeline. Korea gets an enormous edge in land combat, such as tanks, due to them being a mainland country and recently fighting a land war. (By recently I mean the Korean War). Japan gets a large edge in naval warfare due to them being an island nation. In terms of aerial combat you are both fairly equal but Japan has the slight edge of being able to use USSR planes AND American planes whilst Korea mainly just got theres from te USSR. In terms of troop count Japan has the edge by almost an extra 200,000. 1.67 million (Japan) vs 1.48 million (Korea)

I just got back from lunch so I have not read the post yet but I will deal with situations of godmodding and this is not for you to decide.

South Korea and North Korea actually has a larger nation IRL, and even if GFP is null, I doubt they could magically surpass us who would have also had a bigger spending on our military as well. Not to mention South Korea builds 41% of the world's ships.

You may have had bigger military spending irl but that doesn't take into account the fact that Japan does in fact now have a military. They surpassed you because they have better technological capabilities. Irl, South Korea may build many ships, but in this timeline they don't because they were conquered by the north. I'm not saying that your navy isn't arge, which it is, but the Japanese navy is larger.

[Skogarstrond]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=30811031&sid=a05f53878fc01d1497015767722f542c#p30811031

Oh your godmodding now. "That country could fall in a month." "Oh, lol, we both have the most powerful countries in Asia, lol." "lol, we have literally the most powerful military in Asia before anyone agreed to it, lol." "Oh, we're better than Japan and Taiwan at everything, lol."

Well, instead of negotiating, you've resorted to Godmodding in the IC forum. Congratulations. I thought we could negotiate out something, but you instead have plugged your ears with your fingers and done something against the rules. I advise editing the post before you're kicked from the RP.

I see no godmodding here. The Korean officials can't have delusions of grandeur? Remember how easy I thought it would be to invade Brazil in the school map game?

[Erutenia]

I am so sorry man, this is completely my bad but I didn't realize until too late that when you reserved the East Coast, half of it had already been reserved by Franco-Iberie who reserved the CSA. Again, my bad.

[/quote]
*INSERT A VIDEO OF SOMEONE CRYING HERE*

[Skogarstrond]

Announcement: I am about to add all reserved lands to the map in grey. Don't be alarmed and think that there's a new massive superpower

[Republic Of Varra]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=30811031&sid=a05f53878fc01d1497015767722f542c#p30811031

Oh your godmodding now. "That country could fall in a month." "Oh, lol, we both have the most powerful countries in Asia, lol." "lol, we have literally the most powerful military in Asia before anyone agreed to it, lol." "Oh, we're better than Japan and Taiwan at everything, lol."

Well, instead of negotiating, you've resorted to Godmodding in the IC forum. Congratulations. I thought we could negotiate out something, but you instead have plugged your ears with your fingers and done something against the rules. I advise editing the post before you're kicked from the RP.

I see no godmodding here. The Korean officials can't have delusions of grandeur? Remember how easy I thought it would be to invade Brazil in the school map game?

Illusions of grandeur, alright. I will retcon Korea's post as grandeur.

[Skogarstrond]

Announcement: I am about to add all reserved lands to the map in grey. Don't be alarmed and think that there's a new massive superpower

Might take a little while

[Holoska]

*quietly begins archiving Scottish worldbuilding in the event of total thread collapse*

[Monarchy of Japanada]

South Korea and North Korea actually has a larger nation IRL, and even if GFP is null, I doubt they could magically surpass us who would have also had a bigger spending on our military as well. Not to mention South Korea builds 41% of the world's ships.

You may have had bigger military spending irl but that doesn't take into account the fact that Japan does in fact now have a military. They surpassed you because they have better technological capabilities. Irl, South Korea may build many ships, but in this timeline they don't because they were conquered by the north. I'm not saying that your navy isn't arge, which it is, but the Japanese navy is larger.

How could being conquered by the north change its shipbuilding industry/capabilities?

[Skogarstrond]

You may have had bigger military spending irl but that doesn't take into account the fact that Japan does in fact now have a military. They surpassed you because they have better technological capabilities. Irl, South Korea may build many ships, but in this timeline they don't because they were conquered by the north. I'm not saying that your navy isn't arge, which it is, but the Japanese navy is larger.

How could being conquered by the north change its shipbuilding industry/capabilities?

The North didn't have the kind of economy to become such a power in the shipbuilding industry.

[Republic Of Varra]

You may have had bigger military spending irl but that doesn't take into account the fact that Japan does in fact now have a military. They surpassed you because they have better technological capabilities. Irl, South Korea may build many ships, but in this timeline they don't because they were conquered by the north. I'm not saying that your navy isn't arge, which it is, but the Japanese navy is larger.

How could being conquered by the north change its shipbuilding industry/capabilities?

The shipbuilding industry could change in South Korea, because of three things.

One, South Korea first really kicked off their shipbuilding industry in the 70s, and didn't have much to start off with. Then, when North Korea invades, they would most likely try to destroy the industry, so the ships won't be made for their enemies at all.

Second, and most importantly, North Korea after invading South Korea and taking it over, would tank Korea's economy. They wouldn't be able to sustain an industry of this magnitude.

Thirdly, Japan started shipbuilding in the 50s/60s, and has the economic capabilities to manufacture ships. Japan is one of the largest ship building countries as well. You must take that into consideration.

[Monarchy of Japanada]

How could being conquered by the north change its shipbuilding industry/capabilities?

The shipbuilding industry could change in South Korea, because of three things.

One, South Korea first really kicked off their shipbuilding industry in the 70s, and didn't have much to start off with. Then, when North Korea invades, they would most likely try to destroy the industry, so the ships won't be made for their enemies at all.

Second, and most importantly, North Korea after invading South Korea and taking it over, would tank Korea's economy. They wouldn't be able to sustain an industry of this magnitude.

Thirdly, Japan started shipbuilding in the 50s/60s, and has the economic capabilities to manufacture ships. Japan is one of the largest ship building countries as well. You must take that into consideration.

No.
South Korea's economy isn't destroyed, as if said its still capitalist so whatever harm the economy took was low, and it would have recovered by now.

[Republic Of Varra]

Feck. Well, it's my fault for wanting Hong Kong. I hate how no one can have nice things in an NS RP without other people always wanting to steal it.

We could make friends considering my current leader is South Korean, and likely more chill.

Plus, South Korea is still capitalist but North Korea isn't, its our strategy for having a strong economy while still maintaining a powerful military, workforce and industry. So, yes, we can still trade and stuffz.

You are a country, with two economic systems, one weighing the entire country down, and impacting the rest. Industrial capabilities being destroyed in a war. You literally cannot be as powerful as you say.

But what am I saying? You will just ignore and just simply not listen to me, the host, or whoever else who says that's a bit much. Hell, I gave my country nerfs in place, due to realism. Japan may be powerful at navy and air, but sucks in land combat.

So, this will be the last post arguing with you. You cannot be reasoned with, and I cannot see a reason to carry this conversation any longer.

[Skogarstrond]

The shipbuilding industry could change in South Korea, because of three things.

One, South Korea first really kicked off their shipbuilding industry in the 70s, and didn't have much to start off with. Then, when North Korea invades, they would most likely try to destroy the industry, so the ships won't be made for their enemies at all.

Second, and most importantly, North Korea after invading South Korea and taking it over, would tank Korea's economy. They wouldn't be able to sustain an industry of this magnitude.

Thirdly, Japan started shipbuilding in the 50s/60s, and has the economic capabilities to manufacture ships. Japan is one of the largest ship building countries as well. You must take that into consideration.

No.
South Korea's economy isn't destroyed, as if said its still capitalist so whatever harm the economy took was low, and it would have recovered by now.

Would not have recovered for three reasons:
1: As I've been saying over TG, the South Korean economy can't alone support both South Korea And North Korea, especially since North Korea has practically no economy of its own to support itself. If you want to leave the split economies how they are irl, then too many North Koreans would flee to the south through the no longer closed border and North Korea would be practically nonexistent.
2: You just fought in World War 3, the most devastating war in human history. Japan wasn't very involved in the war because it was so hateful of both sides
3: After North Korea conquers the South, I find it too unlikely even for this scenario that the North would've let them remain capitalist. That just makes no sense whatsoever. It only makes sense to me that the capitalist side would've arisen after the loss of the communists in WW3

I'm the OP. You can either stop arguing about this, or break rule #1 of the General Rules. I'm getting tired of this. Your militaries are still fairly equal, there's no point arguing.

We could make friends considering my current leader is South Korean, and likely more chill.

Plus, South Korea is still capitalist but North Korea isn't, its our strategy for having a strong economy while still maintaining a powerful military, workforce and industry. So, yes, we can still trade and stuffz.

You are a country, with two economic systems, one weighing the entire country down, and impacting the rest. Industrial capabilities being destroyed in a war. You literally cannot be as powerful as you say.

But what am I saying? You will just ignore and just simply not listen to me, the host, or whoever else who says that's a bit much. Hell, I gave my country nerfs in place, due to realism. Japan may be powerful at navy and air, but sucks in land combat.

So, this will be the last post arguing with you. You cannot be reasoned with, and I cannot see a reason to carry this conversation any longer.

Varra you gotta calm down too.

[Halium]

Formal Nation Name: The Federation of Native American Tribes
Informal Nation Name: Native America
National Flag: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 7282462532
Economy Type: Bartering/Capitalism System
Government Type: Republican Chiefdom, the chiefs get together and elect a Grand Chief
Head of State: Grand Chief Ahiga Dohii
Map: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 7802347113
Population: 3 million
Military Population (not to exceed 2% of population): 60,000
History of Nation: After the United States began collapsing, the Navajo Indian Nation declare themselves independent of the United States, or what was left of it. After fighting a brief Revolutionary War against the United States where they armed themselves using captured weaponry from the failing United States, they declared themselves a Federation of Native American tribes, and Native Americans came from all over, USA, Canada, Mexico, etc. Soon they were very powerful in the region, and had a growing economy.

[Skogarstrond]

Formal Nation Name: The Federation of Native American Tribes
Informal Nation Name: Native America
National Flag: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 7282462532
Economy Type: Bartering/Capitalism System
Government Type: Republican Chiefdom, the chiefs get together and elect a Grand Chief
Head of State: Grand Chief Ahiga Dohii
Map: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 7802347113
Population: 3 million
Military Population (not to exceed 2% of population): 60,000
History of Nation: After the United States began collapsing, the Navajo Indian Nation declare themselves independent of the United States, or what was left of it. After fighting a brief Revolutionary War against the United States where they armed themselves using captured weaponry from the failing United States, they declared themselves a Federation of Native American tribes, and Native Americans came from all over, USA, Canada, Mexico, etc. Soon they were very powerful in the region, and had a growing economy.

Accepted, please make sure to repost your app in the archives