Anarchist Vs. Statist: The New Debate

[The New Sea Territory]

How would they be voluntary and how would they be different from a state?

They would offer private contracts which in itself is voluntary.

Swing and miss.

Private contracts can easily be coerced onto people, and the presence or absence of a state makes little difference.

[Malve]

They would offer private contracts which in itself is voluntary.

Swing and miss.

Private contracts can easily be coerced onto people, and the presence or absence of a state makes little difference.

Citation needed.

[Philjia]

Explain how murder is dealt with under anarchism.

If you like death penalties, then that. If not, rehabilitation.

The change is not from punishment to no punishment, but from states to no states. Both the Marxian and Weberian state cease to exist in anarchism.

The existence of a justice system and methods whereby it's authority can be enforced would suggest that one is living in a state.

[Farnhamia]

Swing and miss.

Private contracts can easily be coerced onto people, and the presence or absence of a state makes little difference.

Citation needed.

The Vito Corleone School of Business teaches graduate courses in that. You don't think people are capable of leaning on other people to get their way?

[Philjia]

Citation needed.

The Vito Corleone School of Business teaches graduate courses in that. You don't think people are capable of leaning on other people to get their way?

It's also kind of self evident, unless you're living in North Korea.

[Pope Joan]

Both parties in the recent US primaries revealed how deeply statist they are. no wonder they both fear and loathe Trump, who did an end run around them.

[Malve]

Citation needed.

The Vito Corleone School of Business teaches graduate courses in that. You don't think people are capable of leaning on other people to get their way?

I think if people found out about the coercion that private entity would no longer be a private entity, and people would stop using that entity.

[The New Sea Territory]

If you like death penalties, then that. If not, rehabilitation.

The change is not from punishment to no punishment, but from states to no states. Both the Marxian and Weberian state cease to exist in anarchism.

The existence of a justice system and methods whereby it's authority can be enforced would suggest that one is living in a state.

Really?

Then why do these things predate states as we know them today? Justice and even justice systems hav

Swing and miss.

Private contracts can easily be coerced onto people, and the presence or absence of a state makes little difference.

Citation needed.

Have you ever heard of the Mafia? Their protection rackets? That's an agreement, entered by two parties, where both recieve some sort of benefit (the Mafia gets rich and the shopkeeper or whatever doesn't get his store trashed).

It's private, and not voluntary.

[The New Sea Territory]

The Vito Corleone School of Business teaches graduate courses in that. You don't think people are capable of leaning on other people to get their way?

I think if people found out about the coercion that private entity would no longer be a private entity, and people would stop using that entity.

Also not true.

Again, look at the Mafia...a coercive private entity (or set of entities) that existed for decades, and only had issues when the state got involved.

[Farnhamia]

The Vito Corleone School of Business teaches graduate courses in that. You don't think people are capable of leaning on other people to get their way?

I think if people found out about the coercion that private entity would no longer be a private entity, and people would stop using that entity.

"That's a very nice [house/store/farm] you have, Malve. It would be a terrible shame if something happened to it."

[The New Sea Territory]

I think if people found out about the coercion that private entity would no longer be a private entity, and people would stop using that entity.

"That's a very nice [house/store/farm] you have, Malve. It would be a terrible shame if something happened to it."

*pays you money to coerce my competitor, hurting their business*

Ah, the glories of Ancapistan.

[Philjia]

The existence of a justice system and methods whereby it's authority can be enforced would suggest that one is living in a state.

Really?

Then why do these things predate states as we know them today? Justice and even justice systems hav

What makes a state as we know it today different to civil societies of the past, apart from a few hundred years of enlightenment thinking?

[Malve]

The existence of a justice system and methods whereby it's authority can be enforced would suggest that one is living in a state.

Really?

Then why do these things predate states as we know them today? Justice and even justice systems hav

Citation needed.

Have you ever heard of the Mafia? Their protection rackets? That's an agreement, entered by two parties, where both recieve some sort of benefit (the Mafia gets rich and the shopkeeper or whatever doesn't get his store trashed).

It's private, and not voluntary.

The mafia started growing because of prohibition and regulation. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but how long did the mafia last? Oh wait it's not around, and if it is, it's in significantly lower rates then it was when alcohol was banned and/regulated. That said I'm not stating that private entities cannot coerce people into giving up things, what i'm saying is that it violates the NAP and when the majority of other consumers find out about it, they will defend themselves respectively.

Have you ever heard of the state? That's the biggest mafia of all, threatening to take you away for not paying money you didn't voluntarily give?

[Philjia]

Really?

Then why do these things predate states as we know them today? Justice and even justice systems hav



Have you ever heard of the Mafia? Their protection rackets? That's an agreement, entered by two parties, where both recieve some sort of benefit (the Mafia gets rich and the shopkeeper or whatever doesn't get his store trashed).

It's private, and not voluntary.

The mafia started growing because of prohibition and regulation. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but how long did the mafia last? Oh wait it's not around, and if it is, it's in significantly lower rates then it was when alcohol was banned and/regulated. That said I'm not stating that private entities cannot coerce people into giving up things, what i'm saying is that it violates the NAP and when the majority of other consumers find out about it, they will defend themselves respectively.

Have you ever heard of the state? That's the biggest mafia of all, threatening to take you away for not paying money you didn't voluntarily give?

No man is an island, and society will not survive if wealth is horded by a few.

[Genivaria]

Really?

Then why do these things predate states as we know them today? Justice and even justice systems hav



Have you ever heard of the Mafia? Their protection rackets? That's an agreement, entered by two parties, where both recieve some sort of benefit (the Mafia gets rich and the shopkeeper or whatever doesn't get his store trashed).

It's private, and not voluntary.

The mafia started growing because of prohibition and regulation. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but how long did the mafia last? Oh wait it's not around, and if it is, it's in significantly lower rates then it was when alcohol was banned and/regulated. That said I'm not stating that private entities cannot coerce people into giving up things, what i'm saying is that it violates the NAP and when the majority of other consumers find out about it, they will defend themselves respectively.

Have you ever heard of the state? That's the biggest mafia of all, threatening to take you away for not paying money you didn't voluntarily give?

So the best you have to offer is 'it has all the cons of a state but none of the pros'.
No thanks.

[The Liberated Territories]

Plus, I'm not advocating for a 'privatized' state. I'm advocating for the abolition of the state period. The private entities would be voluntary, not forced.

Having a monopoly on the legitimate use of force over a geographic area is exactly what private property is.

Except it is not a monopoly, because there is no state to back up its defense.

[Philjia]

Having a monopoly on the legitimate use of force over a geographic area is exactly what private property is.

Except it is not a monopoly, because there is no state to back up its defense.

It is the state.

[Malve]

The mafia started growing because of prohibition and regulation. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but how long did the mafia last? Oh wait it's not around, and if it is, it's in significantly lower rates then it was when alcohol was banned and/regulated. That said I'm not stating that private entities cannot coerce people into giving up things, what i'm saying is that it violates the NAP and when the majority of other consumers find out about it, they will defend themselves respectively.

Have you ever heard of the state? That's the biggest mafia of all, threatening to take you away for not paying money you didn't voluntarily give?

No man is an island, and society will not survive if wealth is horded by a few.

Let's see if I can put this together for you.

Free Market = Competition = More Innovation And Lower Prices
No Taxes = More Money In Your Pocket
Voting With Your Wallet = The Wealthy Not Being Able To Put Weight On Things Because Of The Small Percentage Of Them Vs. The More In Mass Poorer Consumers

[Malve]

Except it is not a monopoly, because there is no state to back up its defense.

It is the state.

Wow, I like the evidence being showing there in that argument.

[Grand Proletaria]

No man is an island, and society will not survive if wealth is horded by a few.

Let's see if I can put this together for you.

Free Market = Competition = More Innovation And Lower Prices
No Taxes = More Money In Your Pocket
Voting With Your Wallet = The Wealthy Not Being Able To Put Weight On Things Because Of The Small Percentage Of Them Vs. The More In Mass Poorer Consumers

What if you're homeless, unemployed and looked down upon by the rich?

[Philjia]

No man is an island, and society will not survive if wealth is horded by a few.

Let's see if I can put this together for you.

Free Market = Competition = More Innovation And Lower Prices
No Taxes = More Money In Your Pocket
Voting With Your Wallet = The Wealthy Not Being Able To Put Weight On Things Because Of The Small Percentage Of Them Vs. The More In Mass Poorer Consumers

Free Market = Cartels in operation. Without a state to regulate markets, the markets will find their own regulation, preferably in the form of a gigantic solid gold egg of fuck you.

[Malve]

The mafia started growing because of prohibition and regulation. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but how long did the mafia last? Oh wait it's not around, and if it is, it's in significantly lower rates then it was when alcohol was banned and/regulated. That said I'm not stating that private entities cannot coerce people into giving up things, what i'm saying is that it violates the NAP and when the majority of other consumers find out about it, they will defend themselves respectively.

Have you ever heard of the state? That's the biggest mafia of all, threatening to take you away for not paying money you didn't voluntarily give?

So the best you have to offer is 'it has all the cons of a state but none of the pros'.
No thanks.

And those pro's are?
Anything the state can do the private sector can do even better.

[Philjia]

It is the state.

Wow, I like the evidence being showing there in that argument.

If an organisation has total free reign to control conditions within it's sphere of influence, it will have become a state in and of itself.

[The Liberated Territories]

Except it is not a monopoly, because there is no state to back up its defense.

It is the state.

No it's not.

[Malve]

Wow, I like the evidence being showing there in that argument.

If an organisation has total free reign to control conditions within it's sphere of influence, it will have become a state in and of itself.

But organizations don't, the consumers do.