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UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which of the following do you want to keep post-Brexit

Freedom of Movement
31
13%
Single Market Access
62
25%
Both of the Above
102
41%
Neither of the Above
53
21%
 
Total votes : 248

User avatar
Shamhnan Insir
Minister
 
Posts: 3164
Founded: Jul 08, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Shamhnan Insir » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:16 pm

Marcurix wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Where's the option for it being an unsolicited document produced by a third party without any authority? Or are we discounting that out of hand?

Its like you think you've found a smoking gun but all you have is a banana and an unlit match.


It could well be unreliable.

That said, the central points are:
The government has no top-down, centrally-organized plan for Brexit.
In the absence of a unifying strategy, each individual department is making their own plans as best as they can, as well as prepping a 'worst case' contingency.This is a good idea, but without any sort of unity many of those sub-plans are conflicting with each other.
There are ideological splits taking place, with the most notable one dividing Johnson, Fox and the 'Brexit Secretary' from the Business Secretary and the Chancellor.
Theresa May is developing a reputation for trying to settle all disputes and make all of the final decisions personally, rather than delegating.
Businesses may soon try to force the issue in order to get some kind of clarity.

Given the near total absence of any sort of policy or clear goal from the government it's hard to dismiss this sort of thing out of hand.

We've had a shaky "promise" that article 50 will be initiated in early 2017. And aside from that very little clarity, from little information. Of course this could be twaddle generated and leaked. However the response did not instill confidence.
Call me Sham

-"Governments may think and say as they like, but force cannot be eliminated, and it is the only real and unanswerable power. We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose." Sir Adrian Paul Ghislain Carton de Wiart VC, KBE, CB, CMG, DSO.

Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of humanity.
Darwinish Brentsylvania wrote:Shamhnan Insir started this wonderful tranquility, ALL PRAISE THE SHEPHERD KING

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70647
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm

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The East Marches
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13843
Founded: May 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm



Given Trump's temperament, this may not be a bad idea if you can look past your hate for the man.
Conserative Morality wrote:Move to a real state bud instead of a third-world country that inexplicably votes in American elections.


Novus America wrote:But yes, I would say the mere existence of Illinois proves this is hell. Chicago the 9th circle.

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70647
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:24 pm

The East Marches wrote:


Given Trump's temperament, this may not be a bad idea if you can look past your hate for the man.


How so? What is so off about him that he and May can't talk to each other directly like every other President and PM in the last half century or more?
Last edited by Vassenor on Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9309
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:26 pm

The East Marches wrote:


Given Trump's temperament, this may not be a bad idea if you can look past your hate for the man.


Yes it is a bad idea because he is a bad man. You know when he was complaining about the unelected EU governing the UK? Well who elected him as UK ambassador to the US?
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
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Imperial Union of America
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1407
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperial Union of America » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:34 pm



Well, trump can tell the U.K. if they want to talk with the U.S. it'll have to be through Nigel. He can be our UK expert, since obviously he knows more than most of the U.K. political establishment.

In any case, the U.K. needs the U.S. more than ever.
I'm a Fascist and i believe the constitution should be suspended. All enemies of the state should be rounded up and permanently deported.

"But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such kind of partiality is natural to Mankind." - Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70647
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:37 pm

Imperial Union of America wrote:In any case, the U.K. needs the U.S. more than ever.


:rofl:
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The East Marches
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13843
Founded: May 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:38 pm

Vassenor wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
Given Trump's temperament, this may not be a bad idea if you can look past your hate for the man.


How so? What is so off about him that he and May can't talk to each other directly like every other President and PM in the last half century or more?


I thought you were not a fan of Trump and questioned his stability of mind
Conserative Morality wrote:Move to a real state bud instead of a third-world country that inexplicably votes in American elections.


Novus America wrote:But yes, I would say the mere existence of Illinois proves this is hell. Chicago the 9th circle.

User avatar
Imperial Union of America
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1407
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperial Union of America » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:39 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Imperial Union of America wrote:In any case, the U.K. needs the U.S. more than ever.


:rofl:


Well, considering the advancement of the homosexual agenda in the U.K. is much more advanced than here in the U.S, i would say so. As is the gun control agenda.
I'm a Fascist and i believe the constitution should be suspended. All enemies of the state should be rounded up and permanently deported.

"But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such kind of partiality is natural to Mankind." - Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70647
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:39 pm

The East Marches wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
How so? What is so off about him that he and May can't talk to each other directly like every other President and PM in the last half century or more?


I thought you were not a fan of Trump and questioned his stability of mind


I don't recall calling him crazy. I have questioned his policy proposals, not his sanity.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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Val Halla
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38836
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Val Halla » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:40 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Imperial Union of America wrote:In any case, the U.K. needs the U.S. more than ever.


:rofl:

We need to stick around a nation so stupid it makes us look like geniuses.
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Alvecia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20487
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:40 pm

Imperial Union of America wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
:rofl:


Well, considering the advancement of the homosexual agenda in the U.K. is much more advanced than here in the U.S, i would say so. As is the gun control agenda.

"the homosexual agenda"
Haven't seen that come up in a while.

User avatar
Anywhere Else But Here
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5651
Founded: Mar 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Anywhere Else But Here » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:41 pm

Imperial Union of America wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
:rofl:


Well, considering the advancement of the homosexual agenda in the U.K. is much more advanced than here in the U.S, i would say so. As is the gun control agenda.

The advancement is more advanced! Oh no!

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70647
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:44 pm

We're supposed to have unrestricted access to the global markets now. Why do we need the US?
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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Marcurix
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5233
Founded: Nov 01, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Marcurix » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:55 pm

So the government seems to have drawn up its Brexit bill in case they lose the Supreme court ruling.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37986591
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
-Voltaire

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
-Winston Churchill

Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference.
-Winston Churchill

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 177111
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:01 pm


Reeks of desperation.
"Please give me a job. I don't want to fade away into irrelevance. For the love of God, please give me a job" - Nigel Farage, 2016.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

Saoirse don Phalaistín

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Imperial Union of America
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1407
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperial Union of America » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:02 pm

Ifreann wrote:

Reeks of desperation.
"Please give me a job. I don't want to fade away into irrelevance. For the love of God, please give me a job" - Nigel Farage, 2016.


It's the homosexuals and illegals who should be reeking of desparation right now. Please, Mr. Trump! U.K. should be doing the same, since the EU wants to drop them like a hot potato and punish them for leaving the European Union.
I'm a Fascist and i believe the constitution should be suspended. All enemies of the state should be rounded up and permanently deported.

"But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such kind of partiality is natural to Mankind." - Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22831
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Salandriagado » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:17 pm

Marcurix wrote:So the government seems to have drawn up its Brexit bill in case they lose the Supreme court ruling.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37986591


"The United Kingdom hereby activates Article 50 of the Treaty of the European Union."

What the hell goes on the other two lines?
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 177111
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:17 pm

Imperial Union of America wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Reeks of desperation.
"Please give me a job. I don't want to fade away into irrelevance. For the love of God, please give me a job" - Nigel Farage, 2016.


It's the homosexuals and illegals who should be reeking of desparation right now. Please, Mr. Trump! U.K. should be doing the same, since the EU wants to drop them like a hot potato and punish them for leaving the European Union.

But first things first, Trump's fascist regime will be cooperating with all other UN members to stamp out human trafficking, right?
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

Saoirse don Phalaistín

User avatar
The East Marches
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13843
Founded: May 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:18 pm

Vassenor wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
I thought you were not a fan of Trump and questioned his stability of mind


I don't recall calling him crazy. I have questioned his policy proposals, not his sanity.


My apologies, there is alot of that going around. I must have mistaken you for another poster.
Conserative Morality wrote:Move to a real state bud instead of a third-world country that inexplicably votes in American elections.


Novus America wrote:But yes, I would say the mere existence of Illinois proves this is hell. Chicago the 9th circle.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70647
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:21 pm

Imperial Union of America wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Reeks of desperation.
"Please give me a job. I don't want to fade away into irrelevance. For the love of God, please give me a job" - Nigel Farage, 2016.


It's the homosexuals and illegals who should be reeking of desparation right now. Please, Mr. Trump! U.K. should be doing the same, since the EU wants to drop them like a hot potato and punish them for leaving the European Union.


We were smart enough to enshrine Article 2 in law. Homosexual discrimination is illegal. As it should be.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28677
Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:32 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Marcurix wrote:So the government seems to have drawn up its Brexit bill in case they lose the Supreme court ruling.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37986591


"The United Kingdom hereby activates Article 50 of the Treaty of the European Union."

What the hell goes on the other two lines?

The long title of the bill and table of contents?
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19917
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:56 pm

Marcurix wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Where's the option for it being an unsolicited document produced by a third party without any authority? Or are we discounting that out of hand?

Its like you think you've found a smoking gun but all you have is a banana and an unlit match.


It could well be unreliable.

That said, the central points are:
The government has no top-down, centrally-organized plan for Brexit.
In the absence of a unifying strategy, each individual department is making their own plans as best as they can, as well as prepping a 'worst case' .This is a good idea, but without any sort of unity many of those sub-plans are conflicting with each other.
There are ideological splits taking place, with the most notable one dividing Johnson, Fox and the 'Brexit Secretary' from the Business Secretary and the Chancellor.
Theresa May is developing a reputation for trying to settle all disputes and make all of the final decisions personally, rather than delegating.
Businesses may soon try to force the issue in order to get some kind of clarity.

Given the near total absence of any sort of policy or clear goal from the government, it's hard to dismiss this sort of thing out of hand.


it's hard to dismiss it period because all of the central points line up with what we already know. departments were saying they have no idea what's going on and are having to wing it since june 24th.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

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Even Less of Mackonia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 789
Founded: Jun 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Even Less of Mackonia » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:03 am



"Fucking Farage being a better diplomat than the government. He should've slandered the future President for domestic virtue signalling like the real intellectuals over here!"
the wokest man alive
Formerly Greater Mackonia and Lesser Mackonia.
Liked Stirner before it was cool. Definitely edgier than you.
Talking Cats and Vampire Lizards with a meme ideology waging war against the singularity via Eugenics

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70647
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vassenor » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:06 am

Even Less of Mackonia wrote:


"Fucking Farage being a better diplomat than the government. He should've slandered the future President for domestic virtue signalling like the real intellectuals over here!"


:eyebrow:
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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