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by Daburuetchi » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:19 pm
by Galloism » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:20 pm
Free Missouri wrote:Galloism wrote:One of the things I would like to see is automatic voter registration. Every citizen becomes registered when they turn 18. We could send em a little card in the mail.
Fixed that for you, because you are either implying that resident aliens/illegal aliens/immigrants aren't people, or that you're going to give them the vote, both of which would be unconstitutional and against the good faith of the country.
by The Romulan Republic » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:20 pm
Daburuetchi wrote:Still holding my breath for the Sanderista Liberation Front to coup the government! Yeah no Clinton ain't gonna steal the presidency.
by Free Missouri » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:20 pm
Trotskylvania wrote:Free Missouri wrote:Fixed that for you, because you are either implying that resident aliens/illegal aliens/immigrants aren't people, or that you're going to give them the vote, both of which would be unconstitutional and against the good faith of the country.
No, there is no federal constitutional requirement that persons need to be a citizen to vote. It wasn't until circa 1920 that citizenship became a requirement to vote in the United States. Prior, in nearly every state all one had to be was a permanent resident.
by The Greater German Federal Republic » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:20 pm
by Thermodolia » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:21 pm
Libertypendence Park wrote:Socialist Nordia wrote:Hillary Clinton received the largest number of votes, so her victory would be the most democratic result possible without knowing how third party voters would have went in a runoff. The undemocratic option would be to elect Trump despite him not receiving the most votes.
Please explain slowly and cautiously why a Clinton presidency would be the "democratic" result, despite her being objectively the least respected presidential nominee in the history of the United States.
by The Serbian Empire » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:21 pm
Calimama wrote:Just give it a rest already. Like I've said in a previous thread, the electoral college is an outdated and broken system, but it is how it is, and Trump won the presidency. The best thing we can hope for now is that he doesn't get reelected.
by San Lumen » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:21 pm
Calladan wrote:Socialist Nordia wrote:https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19
The electiral college is broken and undemocratic, but it can still choose to follow the will of the people and vote for Hillary Clinton. Many Trump supporters and people who don't really like democracy have been vehemently defending the electoral college lately. When you defend the current system, this is a part of it. If electors were to go faithless amen masse and elect Hillary Clinton, it would be fully within the bounds layed out by the constitution. So, what say you NSG? Is it time to use this undemocratic institution to uphold democracy in the time being, while we wait to have it abolished?
If you think the protests against Trump being President Elect are bad, imagine what the protests will be if the Electoral College decide to turn their collective backs on two hundred years of democracy and stage what amounts to a coup d'etat - with what would be around 150 men and women substituting their opinion for the MILLIONS of Americans who voted on the 8th of November.
The term "undemocratic" doesn't even begin to describe it - it might be constitutional, but I would imagine it flies in the face of what 99% of the country (and the world) would consider "democratic".
And keep in mind I am a liberal on the left to far left of the political spectrum. I consider the phrase "President Elect Trump" to be one of the most horrible things I have ever heard, and really can not believe people are saying it with a straight face and that it is actually the reality we have to live with. Do NOT think for one second I am a Trump supporter, or that I am happy about what will happen in December and on the 20th of January.
However as bad as I think this new reality might be, compared to the idea of the Electoral College overturning the result on a whim, I would take this reality in a second.
by Calimama » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:22 pm
The Serbian Empire wrote:Calimama wrote:Just give it a rest already. Like I've said in a previous thread, the electoral college is an outdated and broken system, but it is how it is, and Trump won the presidency. The best thing we can hope for now is that he doesn't get reelected.
If he can win it once, he can win the same way again!
by The Serbian Empire » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:23 pm
by Benuty » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:26 pm
by Calimama » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:26 pm
by Thermodolia » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:26 pm
The Greater German Federal Republic wrote:It would be very undemocratic if the Republican electorals would vote for Hillary, since the voters want them to elect Trump, not Clinton.
While concerns about the electoral college being less democratic might be understandable to some degree, I am sure that if Clinton won, it wouldn't be such a topic.
But then again, this is highly unlikely since it would pretty much be the match in a pool of gasoline.
by Sack Jackpot Winners » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:27 pm
by Shofercia » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:27 pm
Socialist Nordia wrote:https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19On December 19, the Electors of the Electoral College will cast their ballots. If they all vote the way their states voted, Donald Trump will win. However, they can vote for Hillary Clinton if they choose. Even in states where that is not allowed, their vote would still be counted, they would simply pay a small fine - which we can be sure Clinton supporters will be glad to pay!
We are calling on the Electors to ignore their states' votes and cast their ballots for Secretary Clinton. Why?
Mr. Trump is unfit to serve. His scapegoating of so many Americans, and his impulsivity, bullying, lying, admitted history of sexual assault, and utter lack of experience make him a danger to the Republic.
Secretary Clinton WON THE POPULAR VOTE and should be President.
Hillary won the popular vote. The only reason Trump "won" is because of the Electoral College.
But the Electoral College can actually give the White House to either candidate. So why not use this most undemocratic of our institutions to ensure a democratic result?
SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.
There is no reason Trump should be President.
"It's the 'People's Will'"
No. She won the popular vote.
"Our system of government under our Constitution says he wins"
No. Our Constitution says the Electors choose.
"Too many states prohibit 'Faithless Electors'"
24 states bind electors. If electors vote against their party, they usually pay a fine. And people get mad. But they can vote however they want and there is no legal means to stop them in most states.
The electiral college is broken and undemocratic, but it can still choose to follow the will of the people and vote for Hillary Clinton. Many Trump supporters and people who don't really like democracy have been vehemently defending the electoral college lately. When you defend the current system, this is a part of it. If electors were to go faithless amen masse and elect Hillary Clinton, it would be fully within the bounds layed out by the constitution. So, what say you NSG? Is it time to use this undemocratic institution to uphold democracy in the time being, while we wait to have it abolished?
by San Lumen » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:28 pm
Thermodolia wrote:The Greater German Federal Republic wrote:It would be very undemocratic if the Republican electorals would vote for Hillary, since the voters want them to elect Trump, not Clinton.
While concerns about the electoral college being less democratic might be understandable to some degree, I am sure that if Clinton won, it wouldn't be such a topic.
But then again, this is highly unlikely since it would pretty much be the match in a pool of gasoline.
The whole electoral college system is undemocratic. Nobody votes for these electors and they are the ones who actually decide who becomes president. We trust that they will follow the will of the people in their state but there is nothing from legally stoping them from doing the opposite. That's what I don't like, that we put way to much trust in an unelected group of individuals who decide the president and could at any time decide that the candidate who the people voted for should not be president.
by Calimama » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:28 pm
by United Dependencies » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:29 pm
Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).
Cannot think of a name wrote:Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.
Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.
by The Greater German Federal Republic » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:29 pm
Thermodolia wrote:The Greater German Federal Republic wrote:It would be very undemocratic if the Republican electorals would vote for Hillary, since the voters want them to elect Trump, not Clinton.
While concerns about the electoral college being less democratic might be understandable to some degree, I am sure that if Clinton won, it wouldn't be such a topic.
But then again, this is highly unlikely since it would pretty much be the match in a pool of gasoline.
The whole electoral college system is undemocratic. Nobody votes for these electors and they are the ones who actually decide who becomes president. We trust that they will follow the will of the people in their state but there is nothing from legally stoping them from doing the opposite. That's what I don't like, that we put way to much trust in an unelected group of individuals who decide the president and could at any time decide that the candidate who the people voted for should not be president.
by Calimama » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:29 pm
by Thermodolia » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:30 pm
by San Lumen » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:30 pm
The Greater German Federal Republic wrote:Thermodolia wrote:The whole electoral college system is undemocratic. Nobody votes for these electors and they are the ones who actually decide who becomes president. We trust that they will follow the will of the people in their state but there is nothing from legally stoping them from doing the opposite. That's what I don't like, that we put way to much trust in an unelected group of individuals who decide the president and could at any time decide that the candidate who the people voted for should not be president.
Or the US government should enact harsher regulation on the electorals, to ensure that they vote for their party and keep up with the will of the voters.
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