Europe vs United States

[USS Monitor]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI
I think this is a good metric for standard of living. 22 European countries rank above the US.

Thats inequality, nothing of absolute wealth.

A far better view is net disposable income.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... itemId=105

The Us ranks 8th, and the countries ahead of us typical are in volatile fields like mineral extraction (Norway, UAE, Austrailia) or in finance/money laundering market (Switzerland and Bermuda).

Also OECD ranks the US as highest. http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/ So the numbers have some variance based on methodology.

So the easy way to break it down is this. If you had a choice between living in Europe or living in the US you need look at yourself honestly and see where you will go. If you are likely to be above average the US is for you, if it is likely you will be below average than Europe is for you. Average I would still pick the US.

When deciding where you would live, you also have to consider non-financial things like which countries you think are pretty, what languages you speak, what foods you like, etc. Italy is a lovely place, and the year I studied there was an amazing experience, but not for economic reasons.

[New haven america]

First paragraph-Race doesn't really matter in Europe, their discrimination mainly arises from ethnicity or nationality (While North America generally discriminates against... everything). So a country being mostly white is a rather uselees point to make.

Denmark is still one of the more homogeneous countries in the world. Not that this is inherently good or bad.

And yeah, race does matter in Europe. I've encountered Europeans who make weird generalizations about whole races, so please get off your high horse about that being a North American problem.

Uh-huh, and that still didn't help their point.

As someone who is North American (US to be exact) I'm not on a high horse, Canada, The US, Mexico, and Central American and Caribbean countries all have sweeping generalizations and discriminatory practices towards each other, and then you get down to the country level and, oh boy. However, it was also a joke, though seeing as how sarcasm doesn't translate well to the internet, I'm not surprised that it was taken literally.

[The first Galactic Republic]

DAE all Europe is the same?

In fact OP in many ways Canada is more comparable to the US.

[Herargon]

Denmark is still one of the more homogeneous countries in the world. Not that this is inherently good or bad.

And yeah, race does matter in Europe. I've encountered Europeans who make weird generalizations about whole races, so please get off your high horse about that being a North American problem.

Uh-huh, and that still didn't help their point.

As someone who is North American (US to be exact) I'm not on a high horse, Canada, The US, Mexico, and Central American and Caribbean countries all have sweeping generalizations and discriminatory practices towards each other, and then you get down to the country level and, oh boy. However, it was also a joke, though seeing as how sarcasm doesn't translate well to the internet, I'm not surprised that it was taken literally.

And actually, you're right. Race discrimination does exist yes, but not on such a scale. The focus of discrimination in our continent is rather on people that look like or behave like a certain ethnicity or nationality (antisemitism is pretty much gone here as an exception, but that seems to be on a revival due to a few xenophobic muslims making a fuss about Israel and Palestina. However, the scale on which that happens is negligible compared to ethnic or nationality discrimination).

[USS Monitor]

Denmark is still one of the more homogeneous countries in the world. Not that this is inherently good or bad.

And yeah, race does matter in Europe. I've encountered Europeans who make weird generalizations about whole races, so please get off your high horse about that being a North American problem.

Uh-huh, and that still didn't help their point.

As someone who is North American (US to be exact) I'm not on a high horse, Canada, The US, Mexico, and Central American and Caribbean countries all have sweeping generalizations and discriminatory practices towards each other, and then you get down to the country level and, oh boy. However, it was also a joke, though seeing as how sarcasm doesn't translate well to the internet, I'm not surprised that it was taken literally.

Jokes are supposed to be funny. And seriously, come off it. You're saying it was a joke, but in the same post you double down. Are you working for the Trump campaign?

[USS Monitor]

Uh-huh, and that still didn't help their point.

As someone who is North American (US to be exact) I'm not on a high horse, Canada, The US, Mexico, and Central American and Caribbean countries all have sweeping generalizations and discriminatory practices towards each other, and then you get down to the country level and, oh boy. However, it was also a joke, though seeing as how sarcasm doesn't translate well to the internet, I'm not surprised that it was taken literally.

And actually, you're right. Race discrimination does exist yes, but not on such a scale. The focus of discrimination in our continent is rather on people that look like or behave like a certain ethnicity or nationality (antisemitism is pretty much gone here as an exception, but that seems to be on a revival due to a few xenophobic muslims making a fuss about Israel and Palestina. However, the scale on which that happens is negligible compared to ethnic or nationality discrimination).

I think the difference isn't so much what prejudices people are harboring, just who they have the most contact with. In Europe, you have a lot more contact with foreign nationalities because the countries are so much smaller. In the US, you have more racial diversity. The more you come in contact with people, the more it is an issue if you're prejudiced against them.

[Herargon]

And actually, you're right. Race discrimination does exist yes, but not on such a scale. The focus of discrimination in our continent is rather on people that look like or behave like a certain ethnicity or nationality (antisemitism is pretty much gone here as an exception, but that seems to be on a revival due to a few xenophobic muslims making a fuss about Israel and Palestina. However, the scale on which that happens is negligible compared to ethnic or nationality discrimination).

I think the difference isn't so much what prejudices people are harboring, just who they have the most contact with. In Europe, you have a lot more contact with foreign nationalities because the countries are so much smaller. In the US, you have more racial diversity. The more you come in contact with people, the more it is an issue if you're prejudiced against them.

Yes... in that case, there would be less racism in Europe - although simply because we encounter different ''races'' less or such, so it might be a bad comparision from me. Correct?

If being really honest: I don't even think of people in Europe as belonging to races ... that would be a bit racist in itself, actually. But ah well - anyways, to the point. When I myself, the biased person being that I am, for example go to Italy for holidaysies, then I never think of those well-tanned, Mediterranean coloured people as being 'coloured, mixed' people. I mostly just think of them as about their nationality - being Italians. Pronto.

Maybe it is where the focus lies, where discrimination comes from. Throughout the past, people used the Jews, Christians, poor people, Huguenotes, and such as scapegoats. I myself suspect that governments indirectly would contribute to this, to deflect attention from their own shortcomings, but that hasn't been fully proven so far.

[New haven america]

Uh-huh, and that still didn't help their point.

As someone who is North American (US to be exact) I'm not on a high horse, Canada, The US, Mexico, and Central American and Caribbean countries all have sweeping generalizations and discriminatory practices towards each other, and then you get down to the country level and, oh boy. However, it was also a joke, though seeing as how sarcasm doesn't translate well to the internet, I'm not surprised that it was taken literally.

Jokes are supposed to be funny. And seriously, come off it. You're saying it was a joke, but in the same post you double down. Are you working for the Trump campaign?

No, jokes are supposed to create amusement and laughter, which can vary between people, there's not one concrete style of humor that everyone is required to enjoy. Now, I didn't actually double down, I was stating something sarcastic which was intended to elicit amusement and then be buried under the various other comments in this thread. Said statement was poking fun at a rather serious topic in North America, that being the countries in said continent can be rather discriminatory.

Secondly, about you stating my comment on European racism is false, I ask that you please look at the comments of a European (Herargon), stating that I was mostly correct in my statement of European racism.

And finally, I ask that you please get of your high horse (Or whatever ships ride), and accept that my comment was just one insignificant post out of the many in this thread and forum.

[USS Monitor]

I think the difference isn't so much what prejudices people are harboring, just who they have the most contact with. In Europe, you have a lot more contact with foreign nationalities because the countries are so much smaller. In the US, you have more racial diversity. The more you come in contact with people, the more it is an issue if you're prejudiced against them.

Yes... in that case, there would be less racism in Europe - although simply because we encounter different ''races'' less or such, so it might be a bad comparision from me. Correct?

If being really honest: I don't even think of people in Europe as belonging to races ... that would be a bit racist in itself, actually. But ah well - anyways, to the point. When I myself, the biased person being that I am, for example go to Italy for holidaysies, then I never think of those well-tanned, Mediterranean coloured people as being 'coloured, mixed' people. I mostly just think of them as about their nationality - being Italians. Pronto.

Maybe it is where the focus lies, where discrimination comes from. Throughout the past, people used the Jews, Christians, poor people, Huguenotes, and such as scapegoats. I myself suspect that governments indirectly would contribute to this, to deflect attention from their own shortcomings, but that hasn't been fully proven so far.

Americans wouldn't think of Italians as being "mixed" or "colored" either.

[Sanctissima]

I think the difference isn't so much what prejudices people are harboring, just who they have the most contact with. In Europe, you have a lot more contact with foreign nationalities because the countries are so much smaller. In the US, you have more racial diversity. The more you come in contact with people, the more it is an issue if you're prejudiced against them.

Yes... in that case, there would be less racism in Europe - although simply because we encounter different ''races'' less or such, so it might be a bad comparision from me. Correct?

If being really honest: I don't even think of people in Europe as belonging to races ... that would be a bit racist in itself, actually. But ah well - anyways, to the point. When I myself, the biased person being that I am, for example go to Italy for holidaysies, then I never think of those well-tanned, Mediterranean coloured people as being 'coloured, mixed' people. I mostly just think of them as about their nationality - being Italians. Pronto.

Maybe it is where the focus lies, where discrimination comes from. Throughout the past, people used the Jews, Christians, poor people, Huguenotes, and such as scapegoats. I myself suspect that governments indirectly would contribute to this, to deflect attention from their own shortcomings, but that hasn't been fully proven so far.

Eh, it's mostly just a mater of which group sticks out the most, and what the current living conditions are like.

Back in the Middle Ages, it was the nearest religious minority. If a famine, plague or other disaster occurred, you could blame it on the Jews or the local Christian heresy.

In the Modern Era, it was the nearest ethnic minority. Whenever there was an economic downturn, you could blame it on the local ghetto population, whoever they happened to be.

Nowadays, it's the Muslims. The fact that most of the ones coming to Europe happen to be Arabic or Berber is just a bonus. Combine that with incompetent governments and a debt crisis, and you get discrimination, be it racial or religious.

[Sanctissima]

Yes... in that case, there would be less racism in Europe - although simply because we encounter different ''races'' less or such, so it might be a bad comparision from me. Correct?

If being really honest: I don't even think of people in Europe as belonging to races ... that would be a bit racist in itself, actually. But ah well - anyways, to the point. When I myself, the biased person being that I am, for example go to Italy for holidaysies, then I never think of those well-tanned, Mediterranean coloured people as being 'coloured, mixed' people. I mostly just think of them as about their nationality - being Italians. Pronto.

Maybe it is where the focus lies, where discrimination comes from. Throughout the past, people used the Jews, Christians, poor people, Huguenotes, and such as scapegoats. I myself suspect that governments indirectly would contribute to this, to deflect attention from their own shortcomings, but that hasn't been fully proven so far.

Americans wouldn't think of Italians as being "mixed" or "colored" either.

They used to.

Not too long ago discriminating against Southern Europeans was all the rage.

[USS Monitor]

Jokes are supposed to be funny. And seriously, come off it. You're saying it was a joke, but in the same post you double down. Are you working for the Trump campaign?

No, jokes are supposed to create amusement and laughter, which can vary between people, there's not one concrete style of humor that everyone is required to enjoy. Now, I didn't actually double down, I was stating something sarcastic which was intended to elicit amusement and then be buried under the various other comments in this thread. Said statement was poking fun at a rather serious topic in North America, that being the countries in said continent can be rather discriminatory.

Secondly, about you stating my comment on European racism is false, I ask that you please look at the comments of a European (Herargon), stating that I was mostly correct in my statement of European racism.

And finally, I ask that you please get of your high horse (Or whatever ships ride), and accept that my comment was just one insignificant post out of the many in this thread and forum.

Herargon's post seems to be based on a misconception about how racism works in America. So he's saying, "Well, we don't have this bullshit in Europe," but he's talking about a level of bullshit that we don't have either.

[New haven america]

I think the difference isn't so much what prejudices people are harboring, just who they have the most contact with. In Europe, you have a lot more contact with foreign nationalities because the countries are so much smaller. In the US, you have more racial diversity. The more you come in contact with people, the more it is an issue if you're prejudiced against them.

Yes... in that case, there would be less racism in Europe - although simply because we encounter different ''races'' less or such, so it might be a bad comparision from me. Correct?

If being really honest: I don't even think of people in Europe as belonging to races ... that would be a bit racist in itself, actually. But ah well - anyways, to the point. When I myself, the biased person being that I am, for example go to Italy for holidaysies, then I never think of those well-tanned, Mediterranean coloured people as being 'coloured, mixed' people. I mostly just think of them as about their nationality - being Italians. Pronto.

Maybe it is where the focus lies, where discrimination comes from. Throughout the past, people used the Jews, Christians, poor people, Huguenotes, and such as scapegoats. I myself suspect that governments indirectly would contribute to this, to deflect attention from their own shortcomings, but that hasn't been fully proven so far.

Actually, in North America, basically anyone from Europe would be considered White/Caucasian (With a few exceptions here and there).

[USS Monitor]

Americans wouldn't think of Italians as being "mixed" or "colored" either.

They used to.

Not too long ago discriminating against Southern Europeans was all the rage.

And Europe had Nazis. What's your point? Both have gone out of style in a big way.

[Sanctissima]

They used to.

Not too long ago discriminating against Southern Europeans was all the rage.

And Europe had Nazis. What's your point? Both have gone out of style in a big way.

Just saying that the targets of discrimination change over time, which I think is at least partially the point that Herargon was trying to make.

[Montchevre]

I've been looking at European countries and comparing it to my own standard of living. Here in the States, for many people, what it's actually like to live in western Europe is almost a myth. we recently had a presidential candidate(Bernie Sanders) who supported what he called "Democratic Socialism" and often made references to the nordic countries(Sweden, Norway, Denmark, etc) . These are, however, countries with a low population, high human development index and large reserves of important resources. the United States is a much larger country with a far larger population.

Generally speaking, when i refer to Europe, i mostly refer to the western part of the European Union(United Kingdom(for now), France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium etc.)

But is the standard of living in Europe/Canada actually better than that of the United States?

Here in the states the average income is much higher.

https://mises.org/blog/poor-us-are-rich ... uch-europe

https://mises.org/blog/if-sweden-and-ge ... est-states

(Image)
ult/files/styles/slideshow/public/image_sweden.JPG?itok=qSmrxben

the average U.S. income is approximately 52,000 a year.

the average income of several western EU states;

Germany: 32,000 a year

France: ~30,000 a year

Belgium: 28,700 a year

UK: ~32,000 a year

All of them have been converted to U.S. dollars and some of them have been slightly rounded up.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/r ... ountry.jsp

the US seems to be lower than some EU countries for cost of living, i think our higher wages make up for that to an extent. Also, there are places that are much more expensive than others(New York City, San Francisco being examples of ridiculously overpriced places.) But i suppose that's also true in Europe.

Taxes are also much lower in the U.S. than in Europe.

(Image)

I live in Oklahoma, and i pay about ~9% in sales tax and about 1/3rd of my pay in taxes. Of course, that would heavily depend on what bracket you are in and i tend to get a large bit of that back at the end of the year as a tax return. An apartment cost about ~550-600 dollars here, minimum. a very decent and well located apartment with good amenities can go for about 700-800 a month. i'm in OKC, but if i moved outside OKC i'd be looking at a much cheaper rent. Unlike Germany, we get free kitchen appliances with our rent and oftentime that price includes amenities.

AK-47s are pretty cheap here as well, costing about ~500-600 dollars and AR-15s can go for about the same.

Food can get pricy here, especially with sales tax being what it is.

I'd like to hear from people who live in Europe about the cost of living in their area, or anyone with experience with both countries.

i personally think, as a young person, it's easier to live in the United States than it would be in Europe, but i've never personally been to europe myself so it's hard to say.

Some might say that the strong government support(free healthcare, welfare etc) make up for the lower wages and cost of living.

Some food prices:

1. Gallon milk = ~$3

Wheat bread loaf = 1.73

24 ounces of cereal = 2.93

Lol, when the fascist comes back and uses an Austrian Economics website to prove how terrible Western Europe is !

[Esternial]

Belgium is swell if you're young. A single year in college is less than 1000 dollars and the cost of living is reasonable.

You can get three litres of milk for around $2,70.

Enjoy your student debt o/

[Sanctissima]

Belgium is swell if you're young. A single year in college is less than 1000 dollars and the cost of living is reasonable.

You can get three litres of milk for around $2,70.

Yeah, if you don't mind living in a country that will be non-existent by the end of the 21st century.

[Esternial]

Belgium is swell if you're young. A single year in college is less than 1000 dollars and the cost of living is reasonable.

You can get three litres of milk for around $2,70.

Yeah, if you don't mind living in a country that will be non-existent by the end of the 21st century.

Two issues:

1) You assume it exists to begin with.

2) You assume too much.

[Libertypendence Park]

I lived in Chicago Heights, Illinois for most of my memorable childhood, then moved to the agricultural southwest of Germany. Sociologists make Chicago Heights a frequent focus of their studies, and I'll leave you to guess why.
If I were to choose between the lifestyle of the two, I would go for Chicago, hands down. There's just something incontrovertibly sad about Germany, even the more urban areas, and I have never been able to qualify that feeling.

[Libertypendence Park]

Matter of interest, why isn't there a big movement for American youth to live in socially progressive Europe for a few years as young adults, then move into the more business-friendly America once they've nabbed a degree? Does that happen nearly as frequently as it sounds like it should?

[Esternial]

Matter of interest, why isn't there a big movement for American youth to live in socially progressive Europe for a few years as young adults, then move into the more business-friendly America once they've nabbed a degree? Does that happen nearly as frequently as it sounds like it should?

What, so American immigrants can mooch off our welfare en masse?

[Sanctissima]

Yeah, if you don't mind living in a country that will be non-existent by the end of the 21st century.

Two issues:

1) You assume it exists to begin with.

2) You assume too much.

Esty's Belgium:

Until it finally decides to throw in the towel and divy itself up between France and the Netherlands, it simultaneously both exists and doesn't exist, a paradox nourished by Wallonia's tears.

[Libertypendence Park]

Matter of interest, why isn't there a big movement for American youth to live in socially progressive Europe for a few years as young adults, then move into the more business-friendly America once they've nabbed a degree? Does that happen nearly as frequently as it sounds like it should?

What, so American immigrants can mooch off our welfare en masse?

You will notice that I'm not doing it myself, which ought to tell you my opinion of the idea.

[The Conez Imperium]

I lived in Chicago Heights, Illinois for most of my memorable childhood, then moved to the agricultural southwest of Germany. Sociologists make Chicago Heights a frequent focus of their studies, and I'll leave you to guess why.
If I were to choose between the lifestyle of the two, I would go for Chicago, hands down. There's just something incontrovertibly sad about Germany, even the more urban areas, and I have never been able to qualify that feeling.

Its probably the weather. I stayed in France for a while and it felt sad too. I blame the lack of sunlight and blue skies I take for granted in Australia.

God help the British and their persistent rain.