#Gamergate: What happened?

[Imperializt Russia]

What happened with Gamergate as it's called is that people stopped caring because it was just all about feminists picking fights with gamers over really petty subjects like "why is it mostly men as main protagonists" or why aren't women in multiplayer for games such as Battlefield 1 or other battlefield games. Now I could go on and explain that for games such as Battlefield 1 or otherwise it wouldn't work because Battlefield one is mostly set IN WESTERN EUROPE in 1914-1918. And women never fought on the western front. While it might be true that women might have taken part in fighting in the eastern or Arabian fronts it's implausible to put women in multiplayer or story-wise in Battlefield as there is little to no campaign for the Eastern front. Yes there are missions for the Arabian front and the Western front but that's it. And to address the previous battlefield games, it was a stretch to even allow a woman in the Battlefield 4 campaign, it only worked because she was a member of the Chinese version of the Secret service and due to the whole "We're communist" illusion with china even though they're clearly not communist anymore they allow women in their armed forces like Russia, North Korea, Vietnam and mostly other communist countries. Now. To also address the whole "Why aren't here women protagonists" in other games, it's mainly because the only time you'll actually see women characters in games is when you're playing games like Skyrim, Fallout, World of Warcraft and even then it's a stretch to believe they're actually women unless they have a microphone as most of the time guys play games like Skyrim or Fallout then put an insane amount of mods on for NSFW purposes of which we all know what those mods usually are 95% of the time if you've watched mod reviews for said games on youtube. Other than that, it's all calmed down because people realized fighting about really stupid, and petty subjects when it comes to video games is a waste of time. But that's just my opinion.

This...


...


Isn't what Gamergate was. Gamergate wasn't started by or taken by feminists.

Here's Jim Sterling's Escapist-era take on Gamergate. Pretty solid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfDMHF2N7jI
It's worth watching the Social Justice Warriors... And Ganondorf episode as well, which should be in the Play Next bar for this video.

[Yootxtlalkaan]

name one

You're the one who talked about "flimsy conspiracy theories" in the first place. So we are all on the same hymnsheet, how about you expand on what exactly you meant by that, and then Lone or someone else can respond if they were the same ones Lone was referring to.

my assertion is that all of gamergate's "findings" were flimsy conspiracy theories. name a counterexample.

[Hirota]

You're the one who talked about "flimsy conspiracy theories" in the first place. So we are all on the same hymnsheet, how about you expand on what exactly you meant by that, and then Lone or someone else can respond if they were the same ones Lone was referring to.

my assertion is that all of gamergate's "findings" were flimsy conspiracy theories. name a counterexample.

Thats easy then - I mean really, really, easy. Lets pick the latest example.

Crash override network was created by individuals with ostensibly the purpose of combating harassment. A laudible goal, but one that they appear to be using as a front. The writer of the piece was a participant in these recorded conversations and has verified their contents. This is documented and verified proof that demonstrates that harassers were not from gamergate, but rather it's opponents. It's also worth noting that a member of Crash Override Network’s staff, a Robert Marmolejo was tasked with communicating and counseling victims of online abuse. However, Marmolejo may have abused the trust and private information of his clients to approach them and attempt to solicit sex. Israel ‘Izzy’ Galvez (@iglvzx), another staff member of Crash Override Network, has written that ‘over 20 women have come forward to reveal that Marmolejo sexually harassed them’.

So remind me who the harassers are please. Because the evidence here is that the supposed anti-bullying group is very happy to bully and sexually harass.

[The Lone Alliance]

name one

No.
Burden of proof is on you.

[Zapato]

name one

No.
Burden of proof is on you.

Actually, it's shifted over to you.

Yootxtlalkaan made a statement which could have been challenged, that the alt-right has the same reliance on flimsy conspiracy theories as gamergate. Yootxtlalkaan could have been asked to prove this statement, and the burden on proof would have been on Yoot at this point. But you failed to challenge Yoot on this point, instead making a claim of your own ("funny how some of those supposed flimsy conspiracy theories were proven to be true") which implicitly accepts the original claim made. At this point, the burden of proof is shifted to you, when Yoot challenges you ("name one")

The ball is back in your court: Name one, or concede the argument.

[Charmera]

No.
Burden of proof is on you.

Actually, it's shifted over to you.

Yootxtlalkaan made a statement which could have been challenged, that the alt-right has the same reliance on flimsy conspiracy theories as gamergate. Yootxtlalkaan could have been asked to prove this statement, and the burden on proof would have been on Yoot at this point. But you failed to challenge Yoot on this point, instead making a claim of your own ("funny how some of those supposed flimsy conspiracy theories were proven to be true") which implicitly accepts the original claim made. At this point, the burden of proof is shifted to you, when Yoot challenges you ("name one")

The ball is back in your court: Name one, or concede the argument.

my assertion is that all of gamergate's "findings" were flimsy conspiracy theories. name a counterexample.

Thats easy then - I mean really, really, easy. Lets pick the latest example.

Crash override network was created by individuals with ostensibly the purpose of combating harassment. A laudible goal, but one that they appear to be using as a front. The writer of the piece was a participant in these recorded conversations and has verified their contents. This is documented and verified proof that demonstrates that harassers were not from gamergate, but rather it's opponents. It's also worth noting that a member of Crash Override Network’s staff, a Robert Marmolejo was tasked with communicating and counseling victims of online abuse. However, Marmolejo may have abused the trust and private information of his clients to approach them and attempt to solicit sex. Israel ‘Izzy’ Galvez (@iglvzx), another staff member of Crash Override Network, has written that ‘over 20 women have come forward to reveal that Marmolejo sexually harassed them’.

So remind me who the harassers are please. Because the evidence here is that the supposed anti-bullying group is very happy to bully and sexually harass.

Someone else already did it for him.

[Kilobugya]

Gamergate is just a very minor and unimportant fact blown way out of proportion by a small by very vocal minority of angry reactionary male teenagers using it to fuel their misogynist and homophobe agenda. Nothing else. And it doesn't deserve much more than disdain.

[Charmera]

Gamergate is just a very minor and unimportant fact blown way out of proportion by a small by very vocal minority of angry reactionary male teenagers using it to fuel their misogynist and homophobe agenda. Nothing else. And it doesn't deserve much more than disdain.

Why?
And I don't think even the people whom were using gamergate for corrupt purposes had an "Agenda".

[Minzerland II]

Gamergate is just a very minor and unimportant fact blown way out of proportion by a small by very vocal minority of angry reactionary male teenagers using it to fuel their misogynist and homophobe agenda. Nothing else. And it doesn't deserve much more than disdain.

Yeah, I'm gonna say no.

[Zapato]

Actually, it's shifted over to you.

Yootxtlalkaan made a statement which could have been challenged, that the alt-right has the same reliance on flimsy conspiracy theories as gamergate. Yootxtlalkaan could have been asked to prove this statement, and the burden on proof would have been on Yoot at this point. But you failed to challenge Yoot on this point, instead making a claim of your own ("funny how some of those supposed flimsy conspiracy theories were proven to be true") which implicitly accepts the original claim made. At this point, the burden of proof is shifted to you, when Yoot challenges you ("name one")

The ball is back in your court: Name one, or concede the argument.

Thats easy then - I mean really, really, easy. Lets pick the latest example.

Crash override network was created by individuals with ostensibly the purpose of combating harassment. A laudible goal, but one that they appear to be using as a front. The writer of the piece was a participant in these recorded conversations and has verified their contents. This is documented and verified proof that demonstrates that harassers were not from gamergate, but rather it's opponents. It's also worth noting that a member of Crash Override Network’s staff, a Robert Marmolejo was tasked with communicating and counseling victims of online abuse. However, Marmolejo may have abused the trust and private information of his clients to approach them and attempt to solicit sex. Israel ‘Izzy’ Galvez (@iglvzx), another staff member of Crash Override Network, has written that ‘over 20 women have come forward to reveal that Marmolejo sexually harassed them’.

So remind me who the harassers are please. Because the evidence here is that the supposed anti-bullying group is very happy to bully and sexually harass.

Someone else already did it for him.

Doesn't matter, the Lone Alliance was still wrong in their assertion about burden of proof in their conversation. Not that I have any idea what Hirota is talking about...

[Zapato]

Since I've posted in the thread, I might as well answer the OP:

Gamergate came about after an angry ex tried to recruit his very own troll army to get revenge on a woman who'd created a browser-based game about depression. After several attempts, and being shot down in several places, he finally had some traction by insinuating that she had slept her way to good reviews. This hadn't happened, but it was enough to feed the trolls, and after a YouTuber made a video about it, leading to the start of a harassment campaign (Five guys, burgers and fries). Some gullible fools were recruited through claims that it was really about ethics in video game journalism, but that was all just a flimsy excuse to attack a not particularly likable woman. (Because sending her nude photos to her colleagues and her family is the best way to ensure ethics in journalism, as is threatening to rape and kill her). When Adam Baldwin retweeted some of those videos, Gamergate was born.

So to me, Gamergate was a gathering of trolls, right-wing loons and useful idiots fighting against windmills and imaginary censorship, and as the harassment continued some people were dumb enough to fight back using the same methods.

What we can learn is that Gamergate was the first stage of what some now have taken to call the post-factual era, where facts no longer matter and lies are common currency. Donald Trump and his supporters are, in many ways, what Gamergate was.

[Hirota]

Since I've posted in the thread, I might as well answer the OP:

Gamergate came about after an angry ex tried to recruit his very own troll army to get revenge on a woman who'd created a browser-based game about depression. After several attempts, and being shot down in several places, he finally had some traction by insinuating that she had slept her way to good reviews. This hadn't happened, but it was enough to feed the trolls, and after a YouTuber made a video about it, leading to the start of a harassment campaign (Five guys, burgers and fries). Some gullible fools were recruited through claims that it was really about ethics in video game journalism, but that was all just a flimsy excuse to attack a not particularly likable woman. (Because sending her nude photos to her colleagues and her family is the best way to ensure ethics in journalism, as is threatening to rape and kill her). When Adam Baldwin retweeted some of those videos, Gamergate was born.

So to me, Gamergate was a gathering of trolls, right-wing loons and useful idiots fighting against windmills and imaginary censorship, and as the harassment continued some people were dumb enough to fight back using the same methods.

What we can learn is that Gamergate was the first stage of what some now have taken to call the post-factual era, where facts no longer matter and lies are common currency. Donald Trump and his supporters are, in many ways, what Gamergate was.

Congratulations on having no fucking clue what gamergate was.

Oh it's not your fault, you're just one of the peons who blindly brought into the bullshit peddled by journalists.

Not that I have any idea what Hirota is talking about...

Sorry you didn't understand.

[Zapato]

Since I've posted in the thread, I might as well answer the OP:

Gamergate came about after an angry ex tried to recruit his very own troll army to get revenge on a woman who'd created a browser-based game about depression. After several attempts, and being shot down in several places, he finally had some traction by insinuating that she had slept her way to good reviews. This hadn't happened, but it was enough to feed the trolls, and after a YouTuber made a video about it, leading to the start of a harassment campaign (Five guys, burgers and fries). Some gullible fools were recruited through claims that it was really about ethics in video game journalism, but that was all just a flimsy excuse to attack a not particularly likable woman. (Because sending her nude photos to her colleagues and her family is the best way to ensure ethics in journalism, as is threatening to rape and kill her). When Adam Baldwin retweeted some of those videos, Gamergate was born.

So to me, Gamergate was a gathering of trolls, right-wing loons and useful idiots fighting against windmills and imaginary censorship, and as the harassment continued some people were dumb enough to fight back using the same methods.

What we can learn is that Gamergate was the first stage of what some now have taken to call the post-factual era, where facts no longer matter and lies are common currency. Donald Trump and his supporters are, in many ways, what Gamergate was.

Congratulations on having no fucking clue what gamergate was.

Oh it's not your fault, you're just one of the peons who blindly brought into the bullshit peddled by journalists.

Wrong. I paid attention when it all happened.

[Hirota]

Wrong. I paid attention when it all happened.

Well, like I said, I'm sorry you didn't understand. Maybe you were paying attention to your precious clickbait yellow journos. But as you've perfectly demonstrated, paying attention and understanding are two very different things.

[Zapato]

Wrong. I paid attention when it all happened.

Well, like I said, I'm sorry you didn't understand. Maybe you were paying attention to your precious clickbait yellow journos. But as you've perfectly demonstrated, paying attention and understanding are two very different things.

I paid attention, and I understood. Just like I understand what's happening now as Trump is shouting about "corrupt media" and a "media-rigged election". Media saying something you don't agree with? "Media hit-job". You feel uncomfortable with what the media reports? "Yellow journos". You being shown to be factually incorrect? "Narrative pushed by dishonest and distorted media".

Sure. I'll buy that for a dollar.

[Hirota]

Well, like I said, I'm sorry you didn't understand. Maybe you were paying attention to your precious clickbait yellow journos. But as you've perfectly demonstrated, paying attention and understanding are two very different things.

I paid attention, and I understood.

Riiiight... since you've "understood" Burden of proof is upon you to prove your claims about gamergate. Go ahead.

Just like I understand what's happening now as Trump is shouting about "corrupt media"

Proving even someone as thoroughly dislikable as Trump can be right about things.

[Charmera]

Well, like I said, I'm sorry you didn't understand. Maybe you were paying attention to your precious clickbait yellow journos. But as you've perfectly demonstrated, paying attention and understanding are two very different things.

I paid attention, and I understood. Just like I understand what's happening now as Trump is shouting about "corrupt media" and a "media-rigged election". Media saying something you don't agree with? "Media hit-job". You feel uncomfortable with what the media reports? "Yellow journos". You being shown to be factually incorrect? "Narrative pushed by dishonest and distorted media".

Sure. I'll buy that for a dollar.

Firstly, you can't dismiss an argument merely because donald trump made it in a completely different context. And I have to say that's a pretty slimy smear tactic.
The media which reports gamer news and tech news is fundamentally different from that which posts about election news.

Secondly, you haven't shown anyone to be factually incorrect, as you have asserted information without providing evidence or sources.

[Zapato]

I paid attention, and I understood.

Riiiight... since you've "understood" Burden of proof is upon you to prove your claims about gamergate. Go ahead.

Yeah, like you'll accept any evidence I put forward. If I'll link to Washington Post, you'll dismiss it as corrupt MSM. Link to PC Mag, I'm sure it'll be biased somehow. Get the Christian Sience Monitor in, and that can be dismissed as yellow journalism (hurr hurr). International Business Times? Written by a female journalist, clearly biased. The Telegraph? Surely corrupt. wNYC? Nobody cares about them, so they don't count. The NY Times? They're too big, so they don't count.

If I could only offer up some broken Reddit links, a unknown person talking for 4 hours 37 minutes on YouTube, some half-assed tweets, a random blog or some pictures on imgur made in paint, I'm sure I could have some evidence you'd accept.

Just like I understand what's happening now as Trump is shouting about "corrupt media"

Proving even someone as thoroughly dislikable as Trump can be right about things.

That's a nice media conspiracy you've got there. Shame if someone were to debunk it.

[Zapato]

I paid attention, and I understood. Just like I understand what's happening now as Trump is shouting about "corrupt media" and a "media-rigged election". Media saying something you don't agree with? "Media hit-job". You feel uncomfortable with what the media reports? "Yellow journos". You being shown to be factually incorrect? "Narrative pushed by dishonest and distorted media".

Sure. I'll buy that for a dollar.

Firstly, you can't dismiss an argument merely because donald trump made it in a completely different context. And I have to say that's a pretty slimy smear tactic.

I see you didn't read my post, where I linked Gamergate to Trump. Just like Gamergate and the alt-right were crying about media conspiracies then, Trump and the alt-right are crying about media conspiracies now.

I do like how a comparison to Trump is seen as a slimy smear tactic though.

The media which reports gamer news and tech news is fundamentally different from that which posts about election news.

Not according to some people. They're all the "corrupt mainstream media".

Secondly, you haven't shown anyone to be factually incorrect, as you have asserted information without providing evidence or sources.

See the post above, and remember that you originally wrote "What was gamergate to you?" and didn't ask other posters for sources...

[Charmera]

I don like how a comparison to Trump is seen as a slimy smear tactic though.

It's what it was.
It served no other purpose in your line of reasoning other than to make your opponent look bad. If Horo supports trump, then he's welcome to say it, but attempting to forcibly link someone infamous to your opponent just to discredit them is somewhat of a dishonourable move iom. But meh, it's the Internet, people do worse things.

Edit: unless you meant the gamergate movement as a whole, which I also disagree with.

The media which reports gamer news and tech news is fundamentally different from that which posts about election news.

Not according to some people. They're all the "corrupt mainstream media".

I don't think that's what he meant.
Hiro is welcome to correct me if it is. It's definitely not what I meant.

And the gamergate anti gaming media cries aren't really the same as complaining about the mainstream media.

Secondly, you haven't shown anyone to be factually incorrect, as you have asserted information without providing evidence or sources.

See the post above, and remember that you originally wrote "What was gamergate to you?" and didn't ask other posters for sources...

[/quote]
I also can list pro gamer gate sources. (I may do later if you ask but I'm about to go to go to bed now, if that means I loose the argument I don't mind so much)

Eh. That is true. But for the most part some of my earlier responders kinda framed their response in a way which told me that they didn't really want to debate. Plus it makes it more interesting as the threads op if I challenge people from time to time. Otherwise this gets boring pretty quick.

Plus, to be fair I had a knee jerk reaction to your line of argumentation, whereby you basically insuitared he was likw trump because he denies news and media sources, which was an unnesscary salt to the wound. It didn't help your argumentation other than to attempt to make your opposition look back in my eyes. That may have been unfair on my part and perhaps I should strive to be more impartial.

I'm not doing this cause your anti gamer gate, I honestly think there were reasonable people on both sides and insane lunatics too. Like most things in life the question of gamer gate is one of grey areas.

[Hirota]

Yeah, like you'll accept any evidence I put forward.

Well, it would be easy to dismiss you as strawmanning. Thats been pretty much your MO when it comes to these things up to this point. But no, I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

All you are attempting to do here with this collection of links is relying on other peoples opinions to try and verify your own. You are not proving anything, you are just hoping that drowning me in equally misinformed opinions will work. You are not proving your claims are true, all you are doing is demonstrating that other people also think them to be true. It's a combination of argumentum ad nauseam, argumentum ad populum and Gish Galloping.

[Zapato]

Yeah, like you'll accept any evidence I put forward.

Well, it would be easy to dismiss you as strawmanning. Thats been pretty much your MO when it comes to these things up to this point. But no, I'll give you the benefit of doubt and hope that for once you'll change the habit of a lifetime.

All you are attempting to do here with this collection of links is relying on other peoples opinions to try and verify your own. You are not proving anything, you are just hoping that drowning me in equally misinformed opinions will work. You are not proving your claims are true, all you are doing is demonstrating that other people also think them to be true. It's a combination of argumentum ad nauseam, argumentum ad populum and Gish Galloping.

If I could only offer up some broken Reddit links, a unknown person talking for 4 hours 37 minutes on YouTube, some half-assed tweets, a random blog or some pictures on imgur made in paint, I'm sure I could have some evidence you'd accept.

Well, it would require you to make an effort, so I know better than to expect that from you.

Well Hell, I didn't know you'd prove me so thoroughly right! Woah, this is impressive, though it does beg the question why you're asking for evidence when you're unwilling to accept credible evidence.

[Zapato]

I don like how a comparison to Trump is seen as a slimy smear tactic though.

It's what it was.
It served no other purpose in your line of reasoning other than to make your opponent look bad. If Horo supports trump, then he's welcome to say it, but attempting to forcibly link someone infamous to your opponent just to discredit them is somewhat of a dishonourable move iom. But meh, it's the Internet, people do worse things.

Edit: unless you meant the gamergate movement as a whole, which I also disagree with.

Not according to some people. They're all the "corrupt mainstream media".

I don't think that's what he meant.

He just showed that it's exactly what he meant. He dismissed all of my links to mainstream media sources, and seriously wanted blogs instead. You know what, I'm doubling down on my Trump comparison now.

See the post above, and remember that you originally wrote "What was gamergate to you?" and didn't ask other posters for sources...

I also can list pro gamer gate sources. (I may do later if you ask but I'm about to go to go to bed now, if that means I loose the argument I don't mind so much)

Eh. That is true. But for the most part some of my earlier responders kinda framed their response in a way which told me that they didn't really want to debate. Plus it makes it more interesting as the threads op if I challenge people from time to time. Otherwise this gets boring pretty quick.

Plus, to be fair I had a knee jerk reaction to your line of argumentation, whereby you basically insuitared he was likw trump because he denies news and media sources, which was an unnesscary salt to the wound. It didn't help your argumentation other than to attempt to make your opposition look back in my eyes. That may have been unfair on my part and perhaps I should strive to be more impartial.

I'm not doing this cause your anti gamer gate, I honestly think there were reasonable people on both sides and insane lunatics too. Like most things in life the question of gamer gate is one of grey areas.

Well, I have provided news sources to back up my description of Gamergate and its origins. Feel free to dismiss it completely without even a glance like Hirota did, but you have to accept the Trump comparison if you do.

[Hirota]

If Horo supports trump, then he's welcome to say it,

I don't. I'm thoroughly "left-wing" (Economic Left/Right: -3.25, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03 as noted in my signature), but I'm opposed to the tribalism, identity politics and regressiveness of elements of the left - equally if someone on the right says something I agree with, I'll agree with them.

I don't think that's what he meant.
Hiro is welcome to correct me if it is. It's definitely not what I meant.

I distrust the gaming and mainstream media - and I'm clearly not alone in distrusting the former (as evidenced by the existence of gamergate), and not alone in distrusting the later. But in the context of this thread, I am referring to the gaming media. I'll acknowledge that the distinction perhaps wasn't clear enough in my posts.

I'm not doing this cause your anti gamer gate, I honestly think there were reasonable people on both sides and insane lunatics too. Like most things in life the question of gamer gate is one of grey areas.

I totally agree. I know there are harassers and attackers who have been ostensibly part of gamergate. I also know there have been harassers and attackers who have been opposed to gamergate. The gaming media (and where they have written about it - the mainstream media as a wider group) have chosen to focus on one set of attackers and ignore the others.

[Hirota]

Well Hell, I didn't know you'd prove me so thoroughly right!

Back to your standard MO I see.

Woah, this is impressive, though it does beg the question why you're asking for evidence when you're unwilling to accept credible evidence.

I asked if you could prove your claims, not recycle other peoples claims.