Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[Arachno-Satinism]

Not seeing any rebuttal to any assertion that things do change and that many past traditions are disgusting.

Typical Liberal understanding of what I mean by Tradition.

Or maybe just typical of you.

I don't view Tradition as "anything that's old" any more than modernists thing modernist values are "anything currently being practiced."
I mean as something closer to the unity of the great ancient religions. The facets within them that value mysticism and esotericism while balancing it with the Laws of the Divine.

Knowing how liberals are, I can't expect any of you to understand that. As you all mock and harass the people that don't bow to your ultraliberal/ultramodern agenda.
Makes me really give this whole "cultural marxist" concept some thought.

No, I'm aware of the ahistorical fictions peddled by Perennialists, thanks. Not all people who advance modernism and oppose religious prejudices (homophobia this time, specifically) are liberals, either. Then again, if that's the case I'm not seeing your opposition on homosexuality being grounded in "grand ancient religions", not when aplenty religious traditions look upon homosexuality in a neutral if not approving manner, that such term is not entirely arbitrary and fictional in its own. Modern Islamism is far better grounded, and it would make more sense if you cited Islam's consistent opposition on the act of liwat as the basis for your opposition instead of appealing to some delusional universal values.

[Herskerstad]

You guys turn into communists when you don't get your way.

It's funny, because both us and commies would dispute that for various reasons. One of the most prominent being that liberalism and communism share basically no tenets. Just ask UMN.

True, but it would be a mistake to say that liberal factions did not fight for communism nor influence it.

[New haven america]

Typical Liberal understanding of what I mean by Tradition.

Or maybe just typical of you.

I don't view Tradition as "anything that's old" any more than modernists thing modernist values are "anything currently being practiced."
I mean as something closer to the unity of the great ancient religions. The facets within them that value mysticism and esotericism while balancing it with the Laws of the Divine.

Knowing how liberals are, I can't expect the likes of any of you to understand that. As you all mock and kill the people that don't bow to your ultraliberal/ultramodern agenda.
Makes me really give this whole "cultural marxist" concept some thought.

TIL it's liberals who are killing people for their views.

Fucking liberals.

Next thing you know they're going to force people into slavery... preferably sweet, hunky, male slavery. *Nod*

[Jochizyd Republic]

A rare exception. Everyone here knows that's a rare exception.

Most communists are social liberals. No matter how much they like to decry liberalism and insist they aren't liberals. It doesn't change the facts. They are almost all social liberals.

Jesus Christ, are you kidding me?

Short of college-age Western kids who think Marx was kewl, what basis do you have for this? Do you understand the deep hatred for liberalism in all its forms present in the most numerous communist groups?

Social liberalism? No.

[Conserative Morality]

Social liberalism? No.

Define for me social liberalism, then.

[White Chrobatia]

TIL it's liberals who are killing people for their views.

Fucking liberals.

Next thing you know they're going to force people into slavery... preferably sweet, hunky, male slavery. *Nod*

now this I wouldn't mind.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The liberals are commies......

I guess I'm a commie then.

[Arachno-Satinism]

You guys turn into communists when you don't get your way.

And the founding fathers of Modern Liberalism in the French Revolution showed their true colors and the ultimate outcome of "progressivism".

Sorel said nothing wrong, unless you're a dirty pacifist scum.

[Jochizyd Republic]

A rare exception. Everyone here knows that's a rare exception.

Most communists are social liberals. No matter how much they like to decry liberalism and insist they aren't liberals. It doesn't change the facts. They are almost all social liberals.

No, most communists tend to be social authoritarians. Not unlike Shari'a-governed nations.

You, know literally nothing about the Shari'ah. What it is. How it works. How many different interpretations/approaches of it are possible and so forth.

So don't comment on it.

[White Chrobatia]

No, most communists tend to be social authoritarians. Not unlike Shari'a-governed nations.

You, know literally nothing about the Shari'ah. What it is. How it works. How many different interpretations/approaches of it are possible and so forth.

So don't comment on it.

"Of that which we do not know, we must not speak".

Similarly, you know literally nothing about social democracy and social liberalism. What it is. How it works. How many different interpretations/approaches of it are possible and so forth.

So don't comment on it.

[Arachno-Satinism]

It's funny, because both us and commies would dispute that for various reasons. One of the most prominent being that liberalism and communism share basically no tenets. Just ask UMN.

A rare exception. Everyone here knows that's a rare exception.

Most communists are social liberals. No matter how much they like to decry liberalism and insist they aren't liberals. It doesn't change the facts. They are almost all social liberals.

Holding socially liberal values do not really equate to liberalism. Otherwise you will lump many communists, anarchists, syndicalists, hell even Futurists and fascists into "liberalism", and there would be bloodshed. There's a definition of liberalism, use it. It's like putting conservatives, populists, and capitalists as fascists and you know how annoying is that.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Social liberalism? No.

Define for me social liberalism, then.

I did that before for you in another thread.

But Social Liberalism is broadly the support of social egalitarianism and maximized freedoms of action including the support of libertine and materialistic lifestyles.

[Conserative Morality]

True, but it would be a mistake to say that liberal factions did not fight for communism nor influence it.

Fascists and communists have fought together before. Politics makes strange bedfellows and all that jazz. I don't think that really says anything exceptional.

[New haven america]

Fucking liberals.

Next thing you know they're going to force people into slavery... preferably sweet, hunky, male slavery. *Nod*

now this I wouldn't mind.

I really don't think anyone would.

I mean, it's wrong, but having 2-4 hunky, shirtless men catering to my every whim wouldn't be a terrible thing...

[White Chrobatia]

Define for me social liberalism, then.

I did that before for you in another thread.

But Social Liberalism is broadly the support of social egalitarianism and maximized freedoms of action including the support of libertine and materialistic lifestyles.

Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were all well-known supporters of libertine and materialistic lifestyles.

[Conserative Morality]

I did that before for you in another thread.

But Social Liberalism is broadly the support of social egalitarianism and maximized freedoms of action including the support of libertine and materialistic lifestyles.

Yep, so you either don't understand modern communist movements or don't care to.

[Jochizyd Republic]

A rare exception. Everyone here knows that's a rare exception.

Most communists are social liberals. No matter how much they like to decry liberalism and insist they aren't liberals. It doesn't change the facts. They are almost all social liberals.

Holding socially liberal values do not really equate to liberalism. Otherwise you will lump many communists, anarchists, syndicalists, hell even Futurists and fascists into "liberalism", and there would be bloodshed.

Holding liberal values doesn't make you in any way a liberal.

Haha. Okay.

[Arachno-Satinism]

Holding socially liberal values do not really equate to liberalism. Otherwise you will lump many communists, anarchists, syndicalists, hell even Futurists and fascists into "liberalism", and there would be bloodshed.

Holding liberal values doesn't make you in any way a liberal.

Haha. Okay.

So you will lump them all as Liberals?

[Jochizyd Republic]

I did that before for you in another thread.

But Social Liberalism is broadly the support of social egalitarianism and maximized freedoms of action including the support of libertine and materialistic lifestyles.

Yep, so you either don't understand modern communist movements or don't care to.

Tankies are not usually for that kind of thing. Wouldn't exactly call them the mainstream though.

And they have their own issues.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Holding liberal values doesn't make you in any way a liberal.

Haha. Okay.

So you will lump them all as Liberals?

What would you suggest I call them?

[Conserative Morality]

Tankies are not usually for that kind of thing. Wouldn't exactly call them the mainstream though.

And they have their own issues.

Er, hate to break it to you, but Tankies *are* the mainstream of communism. Most people who aren't've moved on to other labels since the fall of the SovUnion. Many even before that.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Tankies are not usually for that kind of thing. Wouldn't exactly call them the mainstream though.

And they have their own issues.

Er, hate to break it to you, but Tankies *are* the mainstream of communism. Most people who aren't've moved on to other labels since the fall of the SovUnion. Many even before that.

I'm not convinced.

[White Chrobatia]

Er, hate to break it to you, but Tankies *are* the mainstream of communism. Most people who aren't've moved on to other labels since the fall of the SovUnion. Many even before that.

I'm not convinced.

stats lie confirmed

[Herskerstad]

True, but it would be a mistake to say that liberal factions did not fight for communism nor influence it.

Fascists and communists have fought together before. Politics makes strange bedfellows and all that jazz. I don't think that really says anything exceptional.

Sure, blueshirts and all that although most of said situations are rather peculiar. Fascism does have a lot in common with certain strains of communism.

Though liberalism, if one is to count the ideology and movements which would define themselves as such, would be two rather different aspects to make a judgement on in regards of either initiating violence or starting wars. Ranging from a war based in part on freeing the slaves, which would have liberal values at it's core, to liberal parties and presidents lobbying for your run of the mill wars, which while it does not ascribe anything to the idea of liberalism in itself still should not be kept entirely out of political scrutiny. Much like said college aged kids who praise communism, saying it's never really worked in any major nations and not really reflecting on the many reasons why it always inevitably failed in said projects.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Anyway, to keep it on track.

What would all of you define Islamism as?

Are you wrong and think it's just any Islamic Theocracy? Or do you understand the movement and know how define it? Let's go.