[NSG Senate] Lobby-ing a Scimitar

[Argentarino]

OOC: It's god modding to make the police hand over the warrants. I can't see anything else.

However I can't recall why we are now handing out suspensions for it. In the old days it was enough for Admins to retcon something like that and get the offender to just try again. It was only after repeated refusals and repeated incidents like with Drago-whatshisface" that suspensions were handed out.

The level of newfound authoritarianism is just too damn high. And this to somebody who seems to be a relatively newish player.

Moving on to the point raised by Kam, that is/should be a separate incident unconnected with the first. Not sure if that breaks any of the RP rules though it's something to consider that might be an actual infraction for which a ban is warranted. I'm not really sure what the admins use as a yard stick anymore after the lack/slowness of action over a doxing and the use of a sledgehammer to crack a nut over a small godmod.

Oh God lets not mention Dragomere. But yes, I agree. From Baltonia to now, I hadn't seen such heavy handed handling of god modding.

[Arkolon]

One, two and three (twice for metagaming) warnings - at three, you're suspended, which was always a rule.

[Maklohi Vai]

One, two and three (twice for metagaming) warnings - at three, you're suspended, which was always a rule.

Just to add on to this: the reason he's suspended is because of repeated small infractions worthy of warnings, not because the most recent infraction was worthy of a suspension on its own.

[The Nihilistic view]

An incidence of god modding like that has never been a question of a warning straight up. In the old days people were given the chance to withdraw something before a warning was issued. Why the change? Nor would a simple case of a single GM be an official warnable offence. Other than a desire to exercise more control I can't see a valid reason that improves the RP. This sort of action only has a negative impact to those in it or those who might fancy joining. People join this for fun, acting like this just makes it unfun by punishing people for a simple mistake.

How many warnings was never an issue I raised Arkolon, why they were handed out was. But I congratulate you on raising a strawman nonetheless.

[Maklohi Vai]

An incidence of god modding like that has never been a question of a warning straight up. In the old days people were given the chance to withdraw something before a warning was issued. Why the change? Nor would a simple case of a single GM be an official warnable offence. Other than a desire to exercise more control I can't see a valid reason that improves the RP. This sort of action only has a negative impact to those in it or those who might fancy joining. People join this for fun, acting like this just makes it unfun by punishing people for a simple mistake.

How many warnings was never an issue I raised Arkolon, why they were handed out was. But I congratulate you on raising a strawman nonetheless.

The first time he screwed up RPing, we told him to knock it off, as we do with everybody. Then we started giving warnings. This is the standard process; the reason it seems unfamiliar is because most people don't continue to run afoul of the rules after the "knock it off," and so we haven't had to warn people in a while.

[The Sarian]

OOC: It's god modding to make the police hand over the warrants. I can't see anything else.

However I can't recall why we are now handing out suspensions for it. In the old days it was enough for Admins to retcon something like that and get the offender to just try again. It was only after repeated refusals and repeated incidents like with Drago-whatshisface" that suspensions were handed out.

The level of newfound authoritarianism is just too damn high. And this to somebody who seems to be a relatively newish player.

Moving on to the point raised by Kam, that is/should be a separate incident unconnected with the first. Not sure if that breaks any of the RP rules though it's something to consider that might be an actual infraction for which a ban is warranted. I'm not really sure what the admins use as a yard stick anymore after the lack/slowness of action over a doxing and the use of a sledgehammer to crack a nut over a small godmod.

A relitivley newish player who claims to have been lurking for around a year and half.

[Argentarino]

OOC: It's god modding to make the police hand over the warrants. I can't see anything else.

However I can't recall why we are now handing out suspensions for it. In the old days it was enough for Admins to retcon something like that and get the offender to just try again. It was only after repeated refusals and repeated incidents like with Drago-whatshisface" that suspensions were handed out.

The level of newfound authoritarianism is just too damn high. And this to somebody who seems to be a relatively newish player.

Moving on to the point raised by Kam, that is/should be a separate incident unconnected with the first. Not sure if that breaks any of the RP rules though it's something to consider that might be an actual infraction for which a ban is warranted. I'm not really sure what the admins use as a yard stick anymore after the lack/slowness of action over a doxing and the use of a sledgehammer to crack a nut over a small godmod.

A relitivley newish player who claims to have been lurking for around a year and half.

A relatively new player whose most earliest post was on January 27th of this year. He may have been around NationStates for a whike before joining the forums. I know that I wasn't on the forums (as my first nation) until about a year after I founded it. Cute straw man, by the way.

Edit: also, going through numerous pages of posts, he is a relatively new RPer.

[The Sarian]

A relitivley newish player who claims to have been lurking for around a year and half.

A relatively new player whose most earliest post was on January 27th of this year. He may have been around NationStates for a whike before joining the forums. I know that I wasn't on the forums (as my first nation) until about a year after I founded it. Cute straw man, by the way.

Edit: also, going through numerous pages of posts, he is a relatively new RPer.

He claims to have been lurking NSG Senate since the beginning of Calaverde - going as far as making comments like " <Nariterrr> Can I ask why anyone thought it was a good idea to have Nihil as speaker?", following a RP for eighteen months clearly suggests you know at least the basics of the rules - if reading them in the Op of every thread was not enough. (Although, as Nariterrr the lawyer would point out - ignorantia juris non excusat).

But then again, he did age two years in three months...

[Argentarino]

A relatively new player whose most earliest post was on January 27th of this year. He may have been around NationStates for a whike before joining the forums. I know that I wasn't on the forums (as my first nation) until about a year after I founded it. Cute straw man, by the way.

Edit: also, going through numerous pages of posts, he is a relatively new RPer.

He claims to have been lurking NSG Senate since the beginning of Calaverde - going as far as making comments like " <Nariterrr> Can I ask why anyone thought it was a good idea to have Nihil as speaker?", following a RP for eighteen months clearly suggests you know at least the basics of the rules - if reading them in the Op of every thread was not enough. (Although, as Nariterrr the lawyer would point out - ignorantia juris non excusat).

But then again, he did age two years in three months...

Again, what's the relevance? He could have been looking at the RP before he joined the forum. Maybe he had a different nation at the time (I know I went from one nation to this one during one duration of NSG Senate). Why do you care? Guess what, this is his first RP. I've checked his posts. The first RP related post he makes is when he applied to join NSG Senate.

[The Sarian]

He claims to have been lurking NSG Senate since the beginning of Calaverde - going as far as making comments like " <Nariterrr> Can I ask why anyone thought it was a good idea to have Nihil as speaker?", following a RP for eighteen months clearly suggests you know at least the basics of the rules - if reading them in the Op of every thread was not enough. (Although, as Nariterrr the lawyer would point out - ignorantia juris non excusat).

But then again, he did age two years in three months...

Again, what's the relevance? He could have been looking at the RP before he joined the forum. Maybe he had a different nation at the time (I know I went from one nation to this one during one duration of NSG Senate). Why do you care? Guess what, this is his first RP. I've checked his posts. The first RP related post he makes is when he applied to join NSG Senate.

No argument you made contradicts my assertion that he wasn't a stranger to the rules so to cut him slack on being "newish" is unwarranted.

[Argentarino]

Again, what's the relevance? He could have been looking at the RP before he joined the forum. Maybe he had a different nation at the time (I know I went from one nation to this one during one duration of NSG Senate). Why do you care? Guess what, this is his first RP. I've checked his posts. The first RP related post he makes is when he applied to join NSG Senate.

No argument you made contradicts my assertion that he wasn't a stranger to the rules so to cut him slack on being "newish" is unwarranted.

He's new to RPing! For Christ's sake. This is his first RP, he has never RPd before. Looking at people's posts versus actually posting and learning through that are two entirely different things. My first RPs were absolute fumbles, and I spent time looking at posts so I could make a good first impression. Thankfully, the folks I RP'd with would correct me with kindness, otherwise I would have been disheartened early on. I honestly think you don't care about that at all, Sarian.

[Arkolon]

In his defence, he has been dealing with the suspension very politely and we can respect him for that. He broke the rules on metagaming and posting past suspension, but he did later retract and apologise for his flaming and acknowledged his godmodding. I have a feeling he knows what he did wrong and that he will act on those things so we will have fewer problems in the future - the purpose of a suspension is to take time off and think about what you did, it isn't just punishment for punishment's sake.

[The Licentian Isles]

We've all been new to RPing in the past; God knows my first attempts at RPing were mostly tragic. The important thing is that we learn when we make mistakes, and I think that's the other issue here. Multiple warnings were given to Nariterr, and he didn't change his track, which is why the admins suspended him. If he's metagaming and godmodding, then that cannot be allowed to continue, because it can ruin the RP for other people. However, he should also be given a chance to learn from those mistakes once his suspension is complete. Maybe a suspension is just the kick in the arse he needs to realise that that isn't the right way to RP.

[Lykens]

Are we all Admins now ?

[House of Judah]

Simply put, MV has been behaving utterly improperly during this entire episode. The first warning for flaming, though understandable, was unwarranted as the offending language had already been removed an hour before MV decided to warn him. The second warning for metagaming was improperly handled, in so much as the standard that has been previously set was that a caution to retcon such metagaming or simply admin retcon it before giving "official" warnings. The third warning was for metagaming that simply didn't happen.

And this isn't the first time he's gone about making bad calls this iteration.

[Maklohi Vai]

Simply put, MV has been behaving utterly improperly during this entire episode. The first warning for flaming, though understandable, was unwarranted as the offending language had already been removed an hour before MV decided to warn him. The second warning for metagaming was improperly handled, in so much as the standard that has been previously set was that a caution to retcon such metagaming or simply admin retcon it before giving "official" warnings. The third warning was for metagaming that simply didn't happen.

And this isn't the first time he's gone about making bad calls this iteration.

I'm sorry you haven't been pleased with the administration and my calls. They've all been difficult to make, and with any difficult decision, there's naturally disagreement on what's the right course. I would say that they've all been upheld after discussion with other admins, though the jury is still deliberating on the third, but that would be shifting the blame. Ultimately the blame, if it is to be placed, rises to the top, and that's me. So if you're mad, be mad at me (though I don't need to tell you that, as you already are).

[Maklohi Vai]

After talking with a few trusted people on IRC, I've finalized a decision I've been thinking about for a while: I'm going to take a break. A real break. I actually wrote my resignation letter about a week ago, so this isn't a new development. "Sleep on it!" - I have, for a week. This was originally going to be a TG to the other admins, but here it is for all of you, only slightly unedited and all straight from the heart. Warning, it's long.

---

Hi all,

This is unrelated to the recent IRC dust-up [9/6 note: between Sarian and Merizoc], just for starters. This is also a long read and I'd prefer if you did it in one go, so if you don't have several minutes, read it and respond later.

I'm going to be returning to uni on September 5th, and recently have been figuring out what my schedule looks like for the upcoming year. I've also had the unfortunate experience of being an ad-hoc counselor to a depressed close friend, which has both made me more concerned for my own mental health and believing that he'll need even more support once school starts. In addition, looking to my schedule of classes and extracurriculars has got me thinking about an increased time commitment as compared to last year, but also the simple fact that I've spent 3.5 years of my life invested in this RP, and it may be time to move on, at least in part. The longest break I've taken was 3 days long.

As such, I will be taking a major step back from my duties in the RP. Unlike in previous instances, where I've still maintained positions and roles and run the appropriate offices, I will be actually removing myself from IC positions. I will remain Head Admin, but I will resign from the Home Office and the Chair of the Labour Party. Those official resignations will come shortly, within a couple hours, and publicly. IC'ly, Abraham Kamassi will be retiring for health reasons. I may make a new Senator so that I can still contribute to the RP IC'ly when I wish, but I don't know about that yet. I apologize to the Government, particularly to Ark, for accepting this position and resigning so soon; I took it in the good faith that I would be able to fulfill its duties, but sadly that is no longer the case. If someone wishes to continue the National Parks legislation (the only thing I have withstanding), please feel free to do so.

I will remain as Head Admin for the time being. If there are decisions which need my arbitration, or [the] other four admins are deadlocked in a 2-2 vote, I will be available to come back. [9/6 note: I will TG them my email]. If you think it may even be slightly important enough to send on, do it. I won't mind.

I do intend to step down as Head Admin within a year's time, though this is subject to change if I'm feeling more up to it after the autumn term of school and a restful winter break. I would not leave for good, under any circumstances, until I found a replacement and conversed with them extensively. If any of you are interested, please let me know. I want to leave this RP in capable hands.

The basic truth is that this job has been tearing on me for quite some time, and I need a break. The freedom I felt between Dagmar and Elizia was palpable, and I actually even began considering stepping down as Dagmar was coming to a close. That freedom is something I look forward to. With the NWO incident earlier this year, my desire to keep dealing with these situations lessened considerably, particular after the community's backlash. It wasn't so much the fact [you] were mad, and in part I agreed with [you], but the fact that I could not distance myself from my own biases to handle the situation properly at first, and I was not able to properly communicate my thinking in such a way that people understood.

Despite that incident, I do know most people respect the effort I put into this, and I am deeply humbled by that. The Senate means so much to me still. It has been an outlet for me as I came into my political beliefs, my social skills, and a major transition in my life. It has been a constant source of joy and laughter, yet also requiring decision making and conflict resolution skills which are noticeable in real life. I can't fully describe how much it means, and I don't know if I ever will be able to.

So what does this mean for the actual administration of the Senate? First of all, if you think that there should be a sixth admin, so we have five active, I'd be open to that. Please speak up. Second, and most importantly, it requires that [9/6 note: the four other admins] take initiative on all matters of administration which I had done so previously. I'm currently the final decision maker on most matters of enough significance, be it discipline, administration, or whatever. I don't want to have that duty anymore, if possible. [They] will need to communicate and work together to a greater degree than currently. Someone will need to send out those TGs asking for other peoples' thoughts, someone will need to respond appropriately in threads when necessary, someone will need to deal with the mods if need be (god forbid). If you want, I'm more than happy to talk to [anyone] about what exactly this means and how this is going to manifest itself.

Now the actual business of phasing out. [9/6 note: this paragraph is edited heavily because it's date-heavy] Things really heat up school-wise around September 24th. As such, I'd like to designate this period (now until the 24th) as a transition period of sorts, to get everyone acclimated to the new system. My visits to NS will be irregular starting immediately, with decreasing regularity after the 24th. I'll still check TGs daily.

I guess that's it. I originally wrote this on the afternoon of August 29, 2016. The immediate prompt was seeing Sarian's post in the Lobby just as I was about to head to bed, and dreading the fact that I had to wake up and deal with the problem; I didn't want to wake up and deal with it. I recognized that feeling, thought about it some bit, and then wrote this in the afternoon, after indeed waking up and dealing with the problem first thing in the morning. I don't ever want to have the feeling of not wanting to wake up.

Please don’t be as loquacious as this piece was if you do choose to respond, as this is about 1000 words. And if you’re thinking of saying goodbye now, don’t. I’m not gone yet.

MV

[Lykens]

I will always love you MV.

[MERIZoC]

[House of Judah]

Despite my early complaints, I do recognize how much MV has put into this RP. I'm also aware of how taxing it and other concerns he has been facing can be.

We all love him and here's hoping he can continue to be active. Stay strong MV.

[Maklohi Vai]

Despite my early complaints, I do recognize how much MV has put into this RP. I'm also aware of how taxing it and other concerns he has been facing can be.

We all love him and here's hoping he can continue to be active. Stay strong MV.

Thank you.

And please, everyone, don't blame Judah for this. As I said multiple times, this was going to come at some point, it may as well come now. His post just prompted further reflection, there's nothing wrong with that.

Merizoc, Lykens, I love you too. Remember I'll still be around. I'm not gone yet.

[The Licentian Isles]

Sad to see you on your way out MV, since you're the reason I joined this thing in the first place. RL>NS. Have a good break, and hopefully we'll see you again.

[Beta Test]

*returns from the nether*

MV, I and I think many others will agree that you have been the very best Head Admin that this game could have had. Your diligence and commitment to this community has been unrivaled by anyone else who has come and gone from this place. It’s your determination that has allowed this game to continue as long as it has. 3 and half years, now that is a bloody long time for something like this to last.

Speaking as a former admin, I can say that you have had a much more difficult job than anyone else in the Senate and had much more patience for it than I ever had for mine. I think we all deeply respect you for persevering with this heavy commitment for as long as you have. Your decisions haven't always been popular, yet you've always tried to act in the fairest of manners and that is commendable.

On a personal note, I hope you know how much I respect and appreciate you, both for being a trustworthy political ally and for providing guidance and advice during my time as admin. I hope we cross paths someday again, whether it’s in the Senate or somewhere else.

[Zurkerx]

From being here since the days of Aurentina, it has been a honor working with you MV. Jesus, that was a longtime ago. Over that time, I got to know you personally and though you aren't leaving, we will miss your lovable presence in this RP. Your hard work as Head Admin will be remembered as fair but yet tough. In due time, we will see each other again, whether in this RP or IRL. Just remember, we love you MV. Good luck to you too; we will all be standing here in support of you.

[Argentarino]

*assembles a bagpipe corps to play Amazing Grace*

When I joined NSGS (via Baltonia), MV was very helpful in helping me figuring out what the hell to do. Thanks for making the Senate one of the best RPs I've ever taken part in. Enjoy your break, good luck with university (as a recent grad I can tell you that you're gonna need it lol), and may the odds be ever in your favor.